HibeeJibee Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 2 hours ago, ahemps said: France gave up their league cup a couple of years ago (they had a system that let the lower ranked team play at home and it led to lots of upsets and very often had lower league teams in the final). The Copa Del Rey has went to 1 leg apart from the semi finals. I think you'd be lucky to find 5 countries with 2 cup competitions. Portugal has one but I think the English one will go in the next 10yrs as part of the financial negotiations between the EPL and EFL., ... but top division clubs now join at Last 128 not Last 32. That would be like our Premiership clubs joining in R2 instead of R4. There are about 10 countries in Europe with League Cups, so more than 5 but clearly a minority. Tbh this is actually fairly irrelevant in the context of the discussion: nobody wanting a big Scottish Premiership will say they'd be happy with a small if we scrapped our League Cup! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentGuerin Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 8 hours ago, RandomGuy. said: A salary cap is never, ever, getting introduced into European football anyway (barring it being enforced if/when the Super League begins, to try and help stunt anyone supplanting those side (as FFP is designed to do)), so this feels entirely pointless. Salary caps are nothng to do with competitiveness, they exist in franchise systems to make sure the owners make the profits and not the players. You can bet your life the ESL will have one. Why the f**k should Mbappe and Bellingham be able to demand pay rises and eat into those sweet, sweet profits for the execs? Providing competition is a nice side effect and good for PR, but it's not the point. I think you're being unfair on FFP. FFP protects clubs down the chain (like ours) from inflationary pressure caused by unrestrained spending at the top end. And it puts the breaks on owners who are happy to distort the sport or risk the future of their club. It does prevent the biggest clubs being challenged, but is it really a good thing if Brentford are bought by a Sheikh who turns them into a challenger by just spending freely? Why is that good? I think that's a positive thing for the sport to be protected from. More competitiveness in football would be good. It would be tremendous if St Johnstone, for example, could realistically be champions of Europe. Why the f**k not? But the best route to that for the sport is through competitions being organised in a way that money is not the be-all-and-end-all, not by just deciding that everyone can spend what they want. In Scotland we've seen the consequences of this quite enough. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahemps Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 11 hours ago, johnnydun said: Bollocks. It is completely dull, slow paced, with very little passion from fans or players. The league has been diluted with over rated money grabbers and premadonnas. And because I think this about the EPL, I can't be a fan of the sport? EPL fan boy pish. You are right. Just watched match of the day and it’s like watching walking football, so slow and ponderous. Kevin De Bruyne is a statue, totally overhyped, imagine paying money to watch that guy. Also having worked and travelled all around England I’ve yet to meet anyone who actually likes the game, Geordies especially, I’m surprised they even have a football team there, nobody cares about football in that city. Watch the goals from it today and you’ll see when a goal goes in it’s like snooker, nobody moves and there’s barely a clap. Can’t wait to watch Dundee St Johnstone tomorrow, proper football. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnydun Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 41 minutes ago, ahemps said: You are right. Just watched match of the day and it’s like watching walking football, so slow and ponderous. Kevin De Bruyne is a statue, totally overhyped, imagine paying money to watch that guy. Also having worked and travelled all around England I’ve yet to meet anyone who actually likes the game, Geordies especially, I’m surprised they even have a football team there, nobody cares about football in that city. Watch the goals from it today and you’ll see when a goal goes in it’s like snooker, nobody moves and there’s barely a clap. Can’t wait to watch Dundee St Johnstone tomorrow, proper football. Good for you. I didn't watch Match of the Day because the EPL is shite, watched by complete wankers. EPL... SPFL... 16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 (edited) 4 hours ago, VincentGuerin said: I think you're being unfair on FFP. FFP protects clubs down the chain (like ours) from inflationary pressure caused by unrestrained spending at the top end. And it puts the breaks on owners who are happy to distort the sport or risk the future of their club. It does prevent the biggest clubs being challenged, but is it really a good thing if Brentford are bought by a Sheikh who turns them into a challenger by just spending freely? Why is that good? I think that's a positive thing for the sport to be protected from. FFP should have been one of the best things to happen to the sport, but unfortunately the PR machines of the likes of Man City and PSG have managed to convince enough useful idiots that it's actually a big conspiracy by the elite to keep down the plucky billionaire upstarts. The rules literally allow for unlimited spending on infrastructure, including developing youth systems and all of the things that can make for sustainable long-term success, they simply prevent financial doping of the sort we've seen from the aforementioned clubs. Man City's treble last season was perhaps the least impressive sporting achievement of all time, there was absolutely no jeopardy to it the way there was with United's in 1999, just the natural inevitability of a club chucking a fortune at the best manager and all the best players over a period of a decade. However, I do think there does seem to be a sense, in England at least, that FFP is starting to have an effect, with spending slowing down and clubs having to at least be increasingly creative in how they deal with things. Everton's cheating has finally been punished and will hopefully see them relegated, as they should have been last season had they not broken the rules. City's lawyers will try their best to prevent it, but I reckon they are bang to rights too and hopefully they get what they deserve. Edited February 11 by craigkillie 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aliayr76 Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 What thay should do not just for the premier lge,is with the money thay get for qualifying for the euro's I's share some of the money thay get so that the teams could buy better players then giving the a chance to get the qualifying up. Or the sfa could buy players and give 1 player to each team this could be done at the veta cup draw. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hk blues Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 16 hours ago, tamba_trio said: Well, in the NFL your schedule differs depending on your league position. If you win the league you play twice against your division (6 games), against every team in 2 other divisions (8 games) and you've got 3 other games against sides who finished the same position as you last year. Personally, I'd love this for Scotland. It would be great fun. Having a team miss out on Playoffs because of their strength of schedule would be a thing of beauty. Cheers. So, how many games per season for the most and least successful, and for the average team? Close to current number, or far less? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 (edited) 11 hours ago, ahemps said: Also having worked and travelled all around England I’ve yet to meet anyone who actually likes the game Are we any better? This forum is for the interested and you can fall into the trap of thinking everyone else shares that. I'm quite lucky, my mates are all regular attenders, but further afield, at work, family friends, interest drops significantly. Nearly everyone "supports" a team but don't actually go to games. Edited February 11 by Sergeant Wilson 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Blades Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 I actively detest the EPL, refuse to watch any games or highlights, or any of their teams games in Europe. But think I might start getting into it as I saw a picture of someone wearing a half & half Arsenal / Tottenham scarf. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urban Spaceman Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 On 11/02/2024 at 00:56, craigkillie said: The rules literally allow for unlimited spending on infrastructure, including developing youth systems and all of the things that can make for sustainable long-term success, they simply prevent financial doping of the sort we've seen from the aforementioned clubs. That's not entirely true, at least in EPL where we can see the latest evidence of the big clubs using the rules against the "small" clubs. (and those terms came straight from the head of the EPL https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68260953). The EPL continue to change the rules on infrastructure spending every six months. Spurs were allowed to exclude all of their recent stadium build costs - Man City obviously got a completely free stadium from the taxpayer as well. But Everton's £19.5m overspend the allowed £115m losses includes a portion of interest payments for loans to build they new stadium. The EPL are refusing to allow that as excluded now. As most things Everton is a combination of bad management and bad timing (or you may even say being made an example of by the EPL so they don't get an independent body running the game). The new stadium is being built on a UNESCO world heritage site that protects the old dock features and some unique wildlife (not scousers, before anyone asks) so it took 3 times as long as it normally would to get full planning permission. All the while Everton spend 10s of millions securing and preparing the site etc but none of that is excluded as the current rule is you must have planning permission to capitalise it. So that spend counts they same as if they had bought 2 £50m players. Which as Saturdays team proves didn't happen. 1 player on Man City's bench was worth more that the entire Everton team on the pitch and bench. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennie makevin Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 On 11/02/2024 at 00:44, johnnydun said: Good for you. I didn't watch Match of the Day because the EPL is shite, watched by complete wankers. EPL... SPFL... Shocking ! Why aren't they glorifying terrorism and singing about Irish battles of long ago ....Yep, give me the Scottish game any day its not as if that EFL has got more goals and stuff... -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gannonball Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 5 minutes ago, kennie makevin said: Shocking ! Why aren't they glorifying terrorism and singing about Irish battles of long ago ....Yep, give me the Scottish game any day its not as if that EFL has got more goals and stuff... You do realise there is more to Scottish football than a couple of teams? 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennie makevin Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 1 hour ago, gannonball said: You do realise there is more to Scottish football than a couple of teams? Until they are got rid of, sadly there really isn't. -4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamOakTree1 Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 I think the reasoning given for the top 12 wanting to continue the status quo has now outlived it’s relevance. They want the crowds and/or TV money that the 4 games v the OF bring, but this is no longer a valid argument when balanced against the product available, or the atmosphere at the matches For example, the most recent St Mirren v Celtic premiership match drew a crowd of 5,500, on the same day that an under performing Dunfermline v Raith drew 8,500. St Mirren v Celtic in the Scottish Cup drew 4,400, whilst Morton v Motherwell drew over 5,000. Hibs v Celtic had a massive number of empty seats, yet they regularly have crowds of 18,000 plus. They say the EPL is the best league in the world, but they’re mainly talking about the quality on show. I actually feel it’s the fact that every match is unique for the particular season. Liverpool v Man City for instance only occurs once a year, and generates incredible interest in the build-up, live match and aftermath. We’ve lost that in Scotland with the familiarity of playing other teams four times a season. Fear of relegation and losing those perceived big crowds has teams playing a horrible style of football which would make you cry with boredom. The top 4 to 6 clubs in the Championship are investing in the dream of promotion, and the stakes are completely rigged against them achieving that goal. If Morton play, say Arbroath at home, I refuse to pay to watch the same match twice a season, and have stopped purchasing a season ticket. If the Premiership was extended to 18 teams, meaning 17 different matches at Cappielow, I would immediately buy a season ticket. Teams could also return to playing with a bit of freedom and giving their youth players a game. What do we need to do to make this happen? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molotov Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 On 10/02/2024 at 12:06, johnnydun said: Bollocks. It is completely dull, slow paced, with very little passion from fans or players. The league has been diluted with over rated money grabbers and premadonnas. And because I think this about the EPL, I can't be a fan of the sport? EPL fan boy pish. Well said. Let me get a piece of cardboard demanding “Johnnyduns” shirt! It’s just become a fcuking circus with tourists rocking up at every ground now. The peak period of the EPL has passed. I was very lucky to have witnessed first hand incredible players across most top clubs from mid 80s to mid 00s. So many top class players - across so many teams. Especially from mid 90s. Maybe I’m slightly biased but there are few players around today that get me out of my seat like the players of the calibre of Bergkamp, Henry, Di Canio, Carbone, Merson, Wright, Beckham, Giggs, Yorke, Collymore, Shearer, Vierra, Keane, Gerrard, Scholes, Zola, Cole, Fowler, Sheringham, Le Tissier, Pires, Van Nistelrooy etc etc. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Diamond For Me Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 I saw someone a couple of pages back suggesting regionalised leagues along the lines of the various conferences in US sports. That's great in the abstract if regionalisation as such for its own sake is your goal, but the comparison is silly. The USA is continental in scale. Scotland has about the same land area as Maine. If you were to take out the pretty large areas of land with no team in the SPFL - Shetland, Orkney, any of the islands off the west coast, the NW mainland Highlands - then "senior football Scotland" (for want of a better phrase) is probably less than half the area of Wisconsin. Elgin vs. Stranraer is a trek for the away fans, sure, but neither teams nor fans are crossing time zones and taking days to travel to and from games. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentGuerin Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 3 hours ago, DreamOakTree1 said: If Morton play, say Arbroath at home, I refuse to pay to watch the same match twice a season, and have stopped purchasing a season ticket. If the Premiership was extended to 18 teams, meaning 17 different matches at Cappielow, I would immediately buy a season ticket. Teams could also return to playing with a bit of freedom and giving their youth players a game. What do we need to do to make this happen? EFL has divisions of 24 teams, but this certainly does not happen. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 Middle-lower half Premiership sides have shite crowds because theres nothing to aim for. Top end Championship sides have great crowds as chasing a title/promotion is exciting. Solution? Expand the top flight so the top end Championship sides now fight relegation instead. It just doesnt make sense to me. Only 2 clubs are ever going to win our top flight, giving as many teams as possible below the top flight excitement and chances of titles should be the aim. Treat the top flight as a dead zone excitement wise and make it smaller if anything. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirkieRR Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 Bigger leagues don't necessarily lead to more meaningless mid-table games. But you have to increase the number of relegation/promotion/play-off places. And no top-level teams will vote for that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madton Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 5 hours ago, DreamOakTree1 said: I think the reasoning given for the top 12 wanting to continue the status quo has now outlived it’s relevance. They want the crowds and/or TV money that the 4 games v the OF bring, but this is no longer a valid argument when balanced against the product available, or the atmosphere at the matches For example, the most recent St Mirren v Celtic premiership match drew a crowd of 5,500, on the same day that an under performing Dunfermline v Raith drew 8,500. St Mirren v Celtic in the Scottish Cup drew 4,400, whilst Morton v Motherwell drew over 5,000. Hibs v Celtic had a massive number of empty seats, yet they regularly have crowds of 18,000 plus. They say the EPL is the best league in the world, but they’re mainly talking about the quality on show. I actually feel it’s the fact that every match is unique for the particular season. Liverpool v Man City for instance only occurs once a year, and generates incredible interest in the build-up, live match and aftermath. We’ve lost that in Scotland with the familiarity of playing other teams four times a season. Fear of relegation and losing those perceived big crowds has teams playing a horrible style of football which would make you cry with boredom. The top 4 to 6 clubs in the Championship are investing in the dream of promotion, and the stakes are completely rigged against them achieving that goal. If Morton play, say Arbroath at home, I refuse to pay to watch the same match twice a season, and have stopped purchasing a season ticket. If the Premiership was extended to 18 teams, meaning 17 different matches at Cappielow, I would immediately buy a season ticket. Teams could also return to playing with a bit of freedom and giving their youth players a game. What do we need to do to make this happen? After all the moaning you do, you don't even go to games because it's the same team twice in 10 months?? We are lucky to have you. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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