The Andy Robertson conundrum

[eez-eh]

Andy Robertson leaving Ashley Cole in the dust . f**k me.

Ashley Cole was exceptional. I’m hard pushed trying to think of a better 1-on-1 defender I’ve seen in my time watching football. You’d have to be a fucking moron to reduce the comparison to “assists”.

[Satoshi]

1 hour ago, Gordon EF said:

Facts don't lie but nobody is arguing about whether Robertson or Cole has more Premier League assists, which is all that fact deals with. Full backs are not solely judged on how many assists they get. The same way centre backs are not judged solely on how many goals they score. For example, Harry Maguire has scored more career goals than Fabio Cannavaro. That's a fact. Does that mean Maguire is the better centre back?

Of course he isn't.

And you're right full backs aren't judged solely on assists (Robertson is also an excellent defender and all round player).

He started his career at the higher level 3 years after Cole and has 1 title and 1 cl compared to Coles 3 titles and 1 CL. Even if he flames out at the same age Cole did he has 5 years to catch him up (and will continue to surge ahead of him in assists).

Robertson is an excellent player, will he overtake Cole is his career? I think so, he's already in a fantastic position to do so.

[Satoshi]

1 hour ago, eez-eh said:

Andy Robertson leaving Ashley Cole in the dust . f**k me.

Ashley Cole was exceptional. I’m hard pushed trying to think of a better 1-on-1 defender I’ve seen in my time watching football. You’d have to be a fucking moron to reduce the comparison to “assists”.

Nobody is comparing them on assists because it's hardly a comparison, Cole has 31 in 385 league games, Robertson has 54 in 231. That's not even close, he totally blows Cole out the water in assists.

I know it's fashionable to put Scottish players down on this board, but surely people accept Robertson is at least the second best? You could argue Cole is better as of now, but I still Robertson will overtake him in time.

He really is a fabulous player.

Edited December 30, 2022 by Satoshi

[Satoshi]

Had a bit of a comparison of Robertson's premier league Liverpool stats with Ashley Coles from Arsenal and Chelsea.

He has a higher win % (67 to 62), much higher assists per game (0.29 compared to 0.08), marginally more goals per game (0.04 to 0.039) and marginally less clean sheets (0.38 to 0.36).

Numbers are fun. So do people agree that Robertson is, at least, second best with 5 years to catch up? On numbers above he is looking to be in an excellent position.

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

Cole is out on his own as the best LB I've ever seen in that league. Was a great attacking fullback when it was a very different role to what it is now, and then reinvented himself to perform just as outstandingly in a more defensive role. 

Robertson is in the little group of players a bit behind Cole, for me pretty high up 

[eez-eh]

8 hours ago, Satoshi said:

Nobody is comparing them on assists because it's hardly a comparison, Cole has 31 in 385 league games, Robertson has 54 in 231. That's not even close, he totally blows Cole out the water in assists.

I know it's fashionable to put Scottish players down on this board, but surely people accept Robertson is at least the second best? You could argue Cole is better as of now, but I still Robertson will overtake him in time.

He really is a fabulous player.

You are literally comparing them on assists in the first paragraph of this post.

It isn’t putting Robertson down to say he isn’t as good as Cole. Cole was absolutely exceptional and the best I’ve seen. I don’t know who is second best because I’m not old enough to have seen all the great Premier League left-backs. All I know is that Robertson is excellent but not at the same level as Cole was.

It must be a grim life to view everything in such black and white terms as you do.

7 hours ago, Satoshi said:

Had a bit of a comparison of Robertson's premier league Liverpool stats with Ashley Coles from Arsenal and Chelsea.

He has a higher win % (67 to 62), much higher assists per game (0.29 compared to 0.08), marginally more goals per game (0.04 to 0.039) and marginally less clean sheets (0.38 to 0.36).

Numbers are fun. So do people agree that Robertson is, at least, second best with 5 years to catch up? On numbers above he is looking to be in an excellent position.

Win percentages 

If you want a couple of stats in Cole’s favour - he has more tackles per game (1.60 to 1.55) and a much higher tackle success rate (74% to 64%).

Considering how much the role of a full back has changed since Cole, and the drastically different playing style of the teams they played in, doing this on stats alone is nonsensical anyway. Robertson’s attacking stats read far better, but he’s also playing in a time when full backs are far more involved in attacking play and for a team who direct so much of their play through the full backs.

I’m sure it’s likely that TAA has some attacking numbers far better than many of the great Premier League right-backs, but I highly doubt you’ll be arguing his case to be the greatest right-back anytime soon.

From the left-backs I’ve seen Cole is way out on his own and Robertson won’t be “leaving him in the dust” any time soon. Fairly sure most who’ve seen both of them play would agree with that. That isn’t a criticism of Robertson but no doubt you’ll rattle on for another few pages quoting “win percentages” and “goals scored” while boring the tits off everybody.

[dundeefc1783]

I would still have Denis Irwin probably in behind Ashely Cole and ahead of Robertson. Not a particularly flashy player but consistent as f**k and you don't play over 500 games in a team managed by SAF unless you are a cracking player. 

 

 

[Clown Job]

Who gives a f**k about Ashley Cole

[Bonksy+HisChristianParade]

4 hours ago, eez-eh said:

You are literally comparing them on assists in the first paragraph of this post.

It isn’t putting Robertson down to say he isn’t as good as Cole. Cole was absolutely exceptional and the best I’ve seen. I don’t know who is second best because I’m not old enough to have seen all the great Premier League left-backs. All I know is that Robertson is excellent but not at the same level as Cole was.

It must be a grim life to view everything in such black and white terms as you do.

Win percentages 

If you want a couple of stats in Cole’s favour - he has more tackles per game (1.60 to 1.55) and a much higher tackle success rate (74% to 64%).

Considering how much the role of a full back has changed since Cole, and the drastically different playing style of the teams they played in, doing this on stats alone is nonsensical anyway. Robertson’s attacking stats read far better, but he’s also playing in a time when full backs are far more involved in attacking play and for a team who direct so much of their play through the full backs.

I’m sure it’s likely that TAA has some attacking numbers far better than many of the great Premier League right-backs, but I highly doubt you’ll be arguing his case to be the greatest right-back anytime soon.

From the left-backs I’ve seen Cole is way out on his own and Robertson won’t be “leaving him in the dust” any time soon. Fairly sure most who’ve seen both of them play would agree with that. That isn’t a criticism of Robertson but no doubt you’ll rattle on for another few pages quoting “win percentages” and “goals scored” while boring the tits off everybody.

Aye TAA is only marginally behind Robertson on assists and has about 5 years on him. Very strong win percentage too and more goals than Robertson. Surely in line to become the best full back we’ve ever seen play the game?

[velo army]

2 hours ago, Bonksy+HisChristianParade said:

Aye TAA is only marginally behind Robertson on assists and has about 5 years on him. Very strong win percentage too and more goals than Robertson. Surely in line to become the best full back we’ve ever seen play the game?

You joke, but that sort of unhinged opinion is simply the mainstream among the English pundit class.

Chilling.

[Andy Dufresne]

Now Andy Robertson MBE

[Satoshi]

19 hours ago, eez-eh said:

You are literally comparing them on assists in the first paragraph of this post.

It isn’t putting Robertson down to say he isn’t as good as Cole. Cole was absolutely exceptional and the best I’ve seen. I don’t know who is second best because I’m not old enough to have seen all the great Premier League left-backs. All I know is that Robertson is excellent but not at the same level as Cole was.

It must be a grim life to view everything in such black and white terms as you do.

Win percentages 

If you want a couple of stats in Cole’s favour - he has more tackles per game (1.60 to 1.55) and a much higher tackle success rate (74% to 64%).

Considering how much the role of a full back has changed since Cole, and the drastically different playing style of the teams they played in, doing this on stats alone is nonsensical anyway. Robertson’s attacking stats read far better, but he’s also playing in a time when full backs are far more involved in attacking play and for a team who direct so much of their play through the full backs.

I’m sure it’s likely that TAA has some attacking numbers far better than many of the great Premier League right-backs, but I highly doubt you’ll be arguing his case to be the greatest right-back anytime soon.

From the left-backs I’ve seen Cole is way out on his own and Robertson won’t be “leaving him in the dust” any time soon. Fairly sure most who’ve seen both of them play would agree with that. That isn’t a criticism of Robertson but no doubt you’ll rattle on for another few pages quoting “win percentages” and “goals scored” while boring the tits off everybody.

Yeah, but it's hardly a comparison really - Robertson is miles ahead in terms of assists.

Players tend to only get fully appreciated when they retire, and I don't doubt Robertson will be considered by many to be the best left back in the leagues history when he does retire. He's already clearly the best left back in Liverpools history.

Also, you seem to have an issue with win percentage but not tackles per game and successful tackles? Tackles per game is particularly unhelpful metric, have you never heard of passive vs. active defenders? The former would include the likes of Van Dijk and Maldini, the latter the likes of Romero or Rudiger. There's no right or wrong way to do it, but very good defenders can have a low number of tackles per game.

I think Robertson could do what Cole and Irwin did, a wide defender, because he's dynamic and excellent defensively. Does either of them have the technical ability or creativity has? The evidence strongly suggests they did not.

Trent Alexander Arnold is already considered by some to be one of the best full backs of all time, I don't agree because he's notoriously weak defensively and isn't close to as dynamic or athletic as, say, Robertson. Will he go down as one of the best right backs in the Premier League? He almost certainly will, even if he stopped his career now.

Robertson, TAA and Cancelo will all be considered amongst the leagues best ever full backs. Pretty surprised people disagree with this. 

17 hours ago, dundeefc1783 said:

I would still have Denis Irwin probably in behind Ashely Cole and ahead of Robertson. Not a particularly flashy player but consistent as f**k and you don't play over 500 games in a team managed by SAF unless you are a cracking player. 

The Premier League was much weaker when Denis Irwin was playing and Robertson already has more caps than Irwin ever managed. Denis Irwin managed 296 Premier League appearances, Nicky Butt managed 270, Phil Neville 263, John O'Shea 256 and Mikael Silvestre 249.

If people want to think he's better that's fine, but I don't think for a second Irwin could play the way Robertson does. And I think Robertson would be just fine as a wide defender.  

14 hours ago, Bonksy+HisChristianParade said:

Aye TAA is only marginally behind Robertson on assists and has about 5 years on him. Very strong win percentage too and more goals than Robertson. Surely in line to become the best full back we’ve ever seen play the game?

According to many people, he is.

He will also be remembered as pretty weak defensively (unless that changes quickly) whereas Robertson is an excellent defender as well as being very creative. 

[Theroadlesstravelled]

I’d be interested to see when he got the majority of his assists. Probably a few years back when Liverpool had the front 3 of Mane, Firminho and Salah. Not so much recently with Nunez.

Does he have many assists for Scotland?

[2426255]

55 minutes ago, Theroadlesstravelled said:

Does he have many assists for Scotland?

3 goals, 5 assists in 60 caps I think.

In fairness his assists against Israel (x2), the Netherlands and the Faroe Islands were top quality. His latest against Turkey less so.

Edited December 31, 2022 by 2426255

[accies1874]

It is strange that it took, I think, seven years to register an assist for Scotland considering he seemed to be our most dangerous player from about 2016-2018. 

[2426255]

Do these kind of statistics ever provide a very clear picture? Andy Robertson's assist against Turkey is an assist in name only. He has potentially played an important role in other Scotland goals that he isn't credited with because he hasn't made the last pass before a goal or perhaps someone has fired over the bar when it was laid on a plate by Robertson.

[Pie Of The Month]

Congratulations to Andy Robertson on his MBE for services to 'being not quite as good as Ashley Cole but being better at assists'.

[Donathan]

2 hours ago, accies1874 said:

It is strange that it took, I think, seven years to register an assist for Scotland considering he seemed to be our most dangerous player from about 2016-2018. 

I wonder how many times he “assisted the assister”, though. Feels like a lot of our goals come from little flick ons and lay offs. 

[Bing.McCrosby]

Just now, Donathan said:

I wonder how many times he “assisted the assister”, though. Feels like a lot of our goals come from little flick ons and lay offs. 

Im always interested to see the stats of assisting the assistor to the assist. And judge whos a better player only on this stat

[craigkillie]

11 hours ago, Theroadlesstravelled said:

I’d be interested to see when he got the majority of his assists. Probably a few years back when Liverpool had the front 3 of Mane, Firminho and Salah. Not so much recently with Nunez.

Does he have many assists for Scotland?

2014/15 (Hull) - 2
2016/17 (Hull) - 2
2017/18 (Liverpool) - 5
2018/19 (Liverpool) - 11
2019/20 (Liverpool) - 12
2020/21 (Liverpool) - 7
2021/22 (Liverpool) - 10
2022/23 (Liverpool) - 5*

Not really any sort of sign of a drop off there.