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I prefer attempts at objectivity rather than leaning to positive or negative interpretations. 

[The Algebraist]

Most players have ups and downs in their career, even the very best sometimes.  A few of the guys mentioned have fallen out of favour a bit and some are injured. It doesn't mean they're bad though, they wouldn't be where they are now if they were.

The key thing is how they react, if you handle a set back with the right mindset it can be the making of you.

I have a lot of confidence the majority of the list will come good because they all seem to have good characters and growth mindsets. 'Good' won't necessarily look the same for all of them  but that's ok too.

Like ffs I remember when people were saying McGinn wasn't going to make it for Hibs.

[Satoshi]

20 hours ago, Bonksy+HisChristianParade said:

From your post, I’m not sure what I’ve said about McGinn that you disagree with? We seem to agree that Villa is his level.

Tierney is a very good left back. I saw the links with Man City. He’d be second choice to Cancelo, which for a quoted fee of £50m, didn’t make a lot of sense. Arsenal signed Man City’s back up left back who then usurped Tierney as first choice. Tierney has signed a long term contract at Arsenal - which ‘elite’ club are going to spend the above fee on him, given his injury woes? I could see Newcastle potentially doing so, not sure they’re an elite club yet though. He won’t be signing for Real or Bayern, which many were predicting. 

Who are the ‘hardcore’ of posters out of interest? I don’t unfairly criticise any of our players (except O’Donnell). I’ve been very realistic. You live in some parallel universe where McGinn is one of the best players in the league and Tierney is getting paraded at the Bernabeu. Playing for Villa and Arsenal respectively is a very high standard and it isn’t a slight on them at all.

Villa is probably his level, and he consistently performs at international level. So maybe on that point we don't disagree.

If you look at the left backs at top clubs you have the likes of Chilwell, Shaw, Malacia, Cucurella, Marcos Alonso, Ryan Sessegnon and Ivan Perisic. Tierney is absolutely as good if not better than most or all of those players. His injury record holds him back certainly holds him back, but it's a specialist position and there clearly aren't many better around.

19 hours ago, kennie makevin said:

There's a 'hardcore of posters' , to coin a phrase, who understandably are desperate for Scotland to have a 'marquee world class' player in the team. I'd love it too but the reality is we haven't had one of those since Dalglish, and he didn't always turn it on for Scotland. We look at other similar or smaller, sized countries over the years and wish we could, just once, produce a Roy Keane, a Bale, a Haaland...After all football's a bigger deal to us than it is to the Irish, to the Welsh or to the Norwegians..... can't we please have a game changing superstar of our own  ??  I think that's behind the overinflating of our very good players, which has reached a peak with the Billy Gilmour hysteria. 

Dalglish is a far better player than Keane ever was. In a different stratosphere. He was better than Bale too. Scotland have produced more world class players than Wales, Ireland and Norway combined.

17 hours ago, BingMcCrosby said:

Why can @Satoshi

Not just post an opinion without claiming everyone he disagrees with is self loathing, or part of some sort of conspiracy?

And why are so many people biting at this obvious wind up thread

I'm not saying everyone who disagrees with me. But anyone who thinks there aren't some posters who only ever post negatively about Scotland on this sub forum need to pay closer attention. Look at the dreadful troll op as an example, but there are others. When McKenna made a mistake leading to a goal, and Patterson put in a motm performance on the same weekend, only one gets commented on.

It's as clear as the nose on your face.

14 hours ago, Binos said:

If only we could produce a modric,  mandukic,  Boban,  boksic,  suker,  prosinecki 

We have produced better than all of these players (maybe except Modric who is excellent).

A quick way to produce great players is be more open to immigrants and refugees, worked for Zidane, Hazard, Ibrahimovic, Mbappe and many others who are first or second generation immigrants. Scotland sadly has always struggled to attract migrants who typically go to England if they come to the UK.

[Bonksy+HisChristianParade]

Where’s Hazard from like? 

[Bing.McCrosby]

5 hours ago, Bonksy+HisChristianParade said:

Where’s Hazard from like? 

Belgium

Edited October 26, 2022 by BingMcCrosby

[Bonksy+HisChristianParade]

20 minutes ago, BingMcCrosby said:

Belgium

I’m aware, thank you.

[Binos]

10 hours ago, Satoshi said:

 

We have produced better than all of these players (maybe except Modric who is excellent).

 

In the last 30 years we haven't produced a single player close to any of those croats , all of which were attacking players as well 

[Jambomo]

If we are talking all players (not just attacking ones) then surely Andy Robertson has to be up there? He’s won everything you can at club level, would walk into the majority of teams in the World. Probably most international sides if he were eligible.

Sure he doesn’t stand out or drag Scotland to greatness as Bale or Cristiano Ronaldo have, but then many brilliant players such as Messi, Best etc haven’t done that for their country either. It can take more than one player for that in most cases. 

[craigkillie]

He's not a Bale or a Haaland but he's at least on a par with someone like Roy Keane in that he has been one of the very best in his position for a very long time.

[Bing.McCrosby]

3 hours ago, Bonksy+HisChristianParade said:

I’m aware, thank you.

Tbh I misread the post above yours, and gave a different answer. Realised I'd made an arse of it and just changed it to Belgium, as I had to say something

[parsforlife]

We’ve maybe been unfortunate at times, a world class left back doesn’t win games on his own in the same way a striker or winger could.  Similarly Gordon was on very good career path  that injury interrupted. I believe if he had better luck he’d been at the top end of the game for the majority of his career but again, maybe the wrong position.

 

[Bing.McCrosby]

Just now, parsforlife said:

We’ve maybe been unfortunate at times, a world class left back doesn’t win games on his own in the same way a striker or winger could.  Similarly Gordon was on very good career path  that injury interrupted. I believe if he had better luck he’d been at the top end of the game for the majority of his career but again, maybe the wrong position.

 

I wouldn't disagree with that either, he was an excellent keeper. (Bar getting injured at the wrong times, as you said) It was probably only his distribution that was going to hold him back from going to a top club maybe.

Edited October 26, 2022 by BingMcCrosby

[parsforlife]

28 minutes ago, BingMcCrosby said:

I wouldn't disagree with that either, he was an excellent keeper. (Bar getting injured at the wrong times, as you said) It was probably only his distribution that was going to hold him back from going to a top club maybe.

Aye maybe, he probably lacks in the parts of goalkeeping that have been pushed much further forward in the last 10 years.   He also isn’t he quickest to be relied upon playing sweeper/keeper that nauer brought to game.   But every other part of his game was spot on, possibly the end of the 90s/ early 2000s style keeper to play at his level.   Maybe the guy someone like Mourinho would want in goal. 

[Barry Ferguson's Hat]

Ryan Fraser.

[Gordopolis]

McGinn benched again today and villa won well without him before giving him the last 20.
McTominay an unused sub for Man U in the same match.
Fraser again an unused sub at Newcastle.
Gilmour got 8 mins at the end of Brighton's match.
Tierney again on the bench for Arsenal for the majority of the game.

That's 5 of our top, top players not having a great time of it just now. On the plus side, I can see all of them turning their situations round again but it is quite worrying.

[Bing.McCrosby]

9 minutes ago, Gordopolis said:

McGinn benched again today and villa won well without him before giving him the last 20.
McTominay an unused sub for Man U in the same match.
Fraser again an unused sub at Newcastle.
Gilmour got 8 mins at the end of Brighton's match.
Tierney again on the bench for Arsenal for the majority of the game.

That's 5 of our top, top players not having a great time of it just now. On the plus side, I can see all of them turning their situations round again but it is quite worrying.

Fucking right it's worrying. Things aren't going well right now for a lot of our top guys.

But it's ok, I'm sure someone will be along shortly to explain our players not playing is much better than them playing.

 

[aberdeen1970]

We don't have a competitive gane until March? 

A lot can happen between now and then. 

[Theroadlesstravelled]

Tierney and McTominey are both younger than Modric was when he moved to Real Madrid. They have more champions league games as well.

The sky’s the limit for the bois. 

[Satoshi]

Brazil likely starting left back on the bench for Nottingham Forest.

This is modern football, all of those players could easily get first team football were they to move club. Tierney is getting plenty of minutes as covered extensively in the other thread. McGinn has been playing non stop for years. Gilmour a young player just joined a new club and Fraser, a bit of an average player anyway, on the bench behind one of the league's most in form players (who himself hasn't been guaranteed game time the last few years).

If you are worried / terrified / appalled at this you really have thin skin. It wasn't too long ago that zero Scottish players were getting regular minutes in the Premier League.

If you look for things to be upset about you will easily find them.

Maybe England fans are horrified that Foden has been on the bench the last few games. 

Wonder if a Scotland (squad) player scoring and captaining his side to a crucial victory in the premier League will be mentioned? Nah, bad news only here please.

Edited November 7, 2022 by Satoshi

[Bonksy+HisChristianParade]

Why does this goon keep going on about Brazil’s starting left back 

Brazil have also got left backs playing for Juve & Sevilla who are more likely to play. They’ve got a ton of quality throughout the side. I don’t think they’ll be that arsed and it’s hardly comparable. If Neymar was spending weeks on the bench they’d maybe be a bit more concerned.