NHS Reform

[Dan Steele]

1 hour ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

What is your idealistic socialist solution for her, today?

Not really my remit. Has your friend factored in the cost of extensive pain relief medicine and private physio post surgery? Or will that be picked up by free prescription and physio from the SNHS? Also, and I sincerely hope it isn't needed, but any complications later on (not unheard of) would also be carried out by SNHS. Regardless, I hope all goes well.

[scottsdad]

It is in a shocking state. Just look back 17 years to this:

2 days to see a GP was the target. Now you're lucky if it is 2 weeks. The cause is simple (at least in England). They reformed and reformed the NHS to within an inch of its life, each reform exercise sucking resources out of the system and causing more complexity and a worse service. Then they reduced funding - inflation in the health sector is far higher than CPI, so year on year the NHS has been getting poorer. 

Add to that the elephant in the room - Brexit. The NHS brought in so many professionals from Europe and now that supply has gone dry. 

Bad management, lack of funding, self-made problems. These have crippled it in England. Here, the lack of funds is a key issue.  

[Dan Steele]

5 minutes ago, scottsdad said:

Add to that the elephant in the room - Brexit. The NHS brought in so many professionals from Europe and now that supply has gone dry. 

Not just that the supply has gone dry - the number of GPs, Pharmacists, Nurses, and medical related staff returning home is staggering.

[SandyCromarty]

On 17/12/2022 at 15:33, Granny Danger said:

And higher state pensions, mostly paid at an earlier retirement age, and a functioning educational system and not everyone is on strike!  It’s almost as if the U.K. is doing something wrong.

 

The problem is simply explained.

We have a tory government which have underfunded the NHS for a decade and who also are trying to fight the Unions to satisfy the little snivelling empirical englanders in the home counties.

Tory extreme right wing politics, which we have now, were acceptable to the landed gentry two centuries ago when we were the peasantry.

Now with social media and general public awareness they are a fraudulent joke!

[SandyCromarty]

7 hours ago, The Skelpit Lug said:

All the talk of NHS reform is secondary to the main aim of this Tory government's NHS policy of systematically driving it to the point of no return to allow privatisation to run riot. It is their aim, underpins Tory ideology and it's going to take quite a change to turn this around. Any bleating from Tories about any damage being done with strikes and its impact on patients is empty rhetoric. They don't give a shit about the human cost.

For years there has been lobbying to the tories by major companies to remove what they see as a financial burden and that is employer national insurance contributions.

Their ideal is to have private individual health care insurance only and privitise the NHS.

As I've said earlier I have experience of the US health care system in the US and it is not pretty.

Some of you will know that US companies do provide employees with health care insurance for the employees family, but then you are virtually a prisoner to that company and there are limits to the health care, I worked one time for a Major European company which employed internationally from all continents, I asked one senior guy why there was so many UK hands compared to the Americans and was told that we cost a lot less insurance wise whereas the US hand would have the whole family at the dentist every month.

[SandyCromarty]

59 minutes ago, scottsdad said:

It is in a shocking state. Just look back 17 years to this:

2 days to see a GP was the target. Now you're lucky if it is 2 weeks. The cause is simple (at least in England). They reformed and reformed the NHS to within an inch of its life, each reform exercise sucking resources out of the system and causing more complexity and a worse service. Then they reduced funding - inflation in the health sector is far higher than CPI, so year on year the NHS has been getting poorer. 

Add to that the elephant in the room - Brexit. The NHS brought in so many professionals from Europe and now that supply has gone dry. 

Bad management, lack of funding, self-made problems. These have crippled it in England. Here, the lack of funds is a key issue.  

A GP is not an NHS employee! he is a private contractor just as a joiner or a plumber and charges the NHS accordingly, I know of one GP here in Inverness that charged £5000 for attending on Christmas Day.

[Granny Danger]

54 minutes ago, SandyCromarty said:

A GP is not an NHS employee! he is a private contractor just as a joiner or a plumber and charges the NHS accordingly, I know of one GP here in Inverness that charged £5000 for attending on Christmas Day.

I know a plumber who wouldn’t get out of his bed for that.

[Granny Danger]

1 hour ago, SandyCromarty said:

The problem is simply explained.

We have a tory government which have underfunded the NHS for a decade and who also are trying to fight the Unions to satisfy the little snivelling empirical englanders in the home counties.

Tory extreme right wing politics, which we have now, were acceptable to the landed gentry two centuries ago when we were the peasantry.

Now with social media and general public awareness they are a fraudulent joke!

The thing is the Tory policies of the last decade have not worked for 90+% of Tory voters. Only a tiny minority at the top might have benefited, the rest have been significantly worse off.

[strichener]

2 hours ago, SandyCromarty said:

A GP is not an NHS employee! he is a private contractor just as a joiner or a plumber and charges the NHS accordingly, I know of one GP here in Inverness that charged £5000 for attending on Christmas Day.

So the problems are not down to Tory underfunding then.  Unless of course you agree that it is entirely reasonable for a GP to charge £5k per day.

In Scotland we have had an SNP government for the last 15 years and they have the same issues as England even though they have tried to tackle the care issues in a different manner.

Edited December 19, 2022 by strichener

[Benjamin_Nevis]

15 hours ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

A good friend of ours is seeing a surgeon today privately because she can barely walk due to requiring a new hip.

She is NOT well off but waiting 2/3 years on the NHS is not an option at the age of 80.. If she opts to go ahead this will cost her £15 to £20k, a good part of her life savings.
What is your idealistic socialist solution for her, today?

Given the the 99.8% certainty that this situation, like everything else you've ever posted is totally made up, I'm struggling to care tbh. 

[SandyCromarty]

14 hours ago, strichener said:

So the problems are not down to Tory underfunding then.  Unless of course you agree that it is entirely reasonable for a GP to charge £5k per day.

In Scotland we have had an SNP government for the last 15 years and they have the same issues as England even though they have tried to tackle the care issues in a different manner.

It's on record that the tories have underfunded the NHS for the last ten years and they have not contested that!

No nurses are on strike in Scotland.

The SNP have worked very closely with Scottish Cosla regarding public sector workers and the Unions.

The tories are refusing to meet with Unions.

So it's 365 tory MP's versus over 60 Million of a UK population.

I was at Bert Fowlie's yesterday and Strichen is looking a mess. 

[SandyCromarty]

On 19/12/2022 at 09:39, Dawson Park Boy said:

I think we would agree that if you have an accident or an emergency then, yes, I too have had no problems with the NHS.

The problems relate to elective surgery and the enormous waiting times which are totally unacceptable.

Do I have to keep repeating that it is on record that the tories have underfunded the NHS for the last decade so as to bring in costly private health care, the situation we are in now with the NHS has been deliberately manipulated.

And, pathetically, now that they have been exposed for fraud they are in the process of suing theri friends in Medpro to get back the £100 Million they gave them for unacceptable and poor quality gowns and masks.

You can come up with all sorts of lame excuses for the tories but look at facts for godsake, they have been deliberately stripping the financial assets of the NHS.

The tories from the day of inception have railed and argued against a free access health care system just as they have with Devolution, it is enshrined in their backward looking DNA, the world has moved on from the right wing politics of the tories.

[strichener]

4 hours ago, SandyCromarty said:

It's on record that the tories have underfunded the NHS for the last ten years and they have not contested that!

No nurses are on strike in Scotland.

The SNP have worked very closely with Scottish Cosla regarding public sector workers and the Unions.

The tories are refusing to meet with Unions.

So it's 365 tory MP's versus over 60 Million of a UK population.

I was at Bert Fowlie's yesterday and Strichen is looking a mess. 

I thought Scotland had failed to increase health spending in line with England.  So if you want to accuse the Tories of under investment then this is even truer of Scotland.

[carpetmonster]

34 minutes ago, strichener said:

I thought Scotland had failed to increase health spending in line with England.  So if you want to accuse the Tories of under investment then this is even truer of Scotland.

Seems to be that’s because Scotland had been funding the NHS far more generously in years past so the jump wasn’t as drastic 

 

https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/resource/health-spending-across-the-uk-nations-who-decides-how-much
 

https://ifs.org.uk/news/official-estimates-suggest-scottish-health-spending-person-now-3-higher-england-compared-22

 

 

[ICTChris]

Interesting thread on how to improve wait times etc in the NHS

 

[SandyCromarty]

2 hours ago, strichener said:

I thought Scotland had failed to increase health spending in line with England.  So if you want to accuse the Tories of under investment then this is even truer of Scotland.

The SNP haven't underfunded the NHS, the tories did for ten years at least and they always blame the pandemic for the shortfall yet the British Medical Associations Dossier states that the 'UK health services were ill prepared for the pandemic as a result of historical underfunding and under resourcing in the decade preceding the virus'.

How the f**k can you defend the tories on that, you can hate the SNP in your petty little way all you want and blame them for all your troubles but they had nothing to do with underfunding and you fuckin well know it.

Facts are facts and if there was GE tomorrow the tories would be reduced to rubble in westminster, if there was a Scottish election tomorrow the SNP would again be elected massively as they were the last time and that must grate on you.

Sadly the tories will continue for the next two years and further reduce the NHS and refuse to talk to the Unions.

And if there were a first past the post voting typr Scottish election there not be one tory elected, fact.

Edited December 20, 2022 by SandyCromarty

[Crazy Days]

2 hours ago, SandyCromarty said:

The SNP haven't underfunded the NHS, the tories did for ten years at least and they always blame the pandemic

The NHS in Scotland is managed by the Scottish Government and the majority of NHS Scotland provision is paid for through taxation. This means that, if you are employed or self-employed in Scotland you are entitled to free healthcare from the NHS – as well as your spouse and your immediate family.  Responsibility for the National Health Services in Scotland is a devolved matter and therefore rests with the Scottish Government. Legislation about the NHS is made by the Scottish Parliament. The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Wellbeing has ministerial responsibility in the Scottish Cabinet for the NHS in Scotland.

Blaming the pandemic - is that not the SNP response to anything that is wrong in Scotland?

In any case my 90yr old mother is so glad that it is the SNP and not the Tories who are responsible for the NHS in Scotland. In extreme pain she waited for 9 hrs in Casualty at the weekend but was comforted by the knowledge that Sturgeon constantly repeats "We are better than other parts of the UK".  That really eased her pain.

[strichener]

2 hours ago, SandyCromarty said:

The SNP haven't underfunded the NHS, the tories did for ten years at least and they always blame the pandemic for the shortfall yet the British Medical Associations Dossier states that the 'UK health services were ill prepared for the pandemic as a result of historical underfunding and under resourcing in the decade preceding the virus'.

How the f**k can you defend the tories on that, you can hate the SNP in your petty little way all you want and blame them for all your troubles but they had nothing to do with underfunding and you fuckin well know it.

Facts are facts and if there was GE tomorrow the tories would be reduced to rubble in westminster, if there was a Scottish election tomorrow the SNP would again be elected massively as they were the last time and that must grate on you.

Sadly the tories will continue for the next two years and further reduce the NHS and refuse to talk to the Unions.

And if there were a first past the post voting typr Scottish election there not be one tory elected, fact.

The numbers don't lie.  The last ten years that you speak off has seen England increase health spending to a greater degree than Scotland.

As you say - facts are facts.

 

[Granny Danger]

Can’t find anything more up to date:

[coprolite]

24 minutes ago, Crazy Days said:

The NHS in Scotland is managed by the Scottish Government and the majority of NHS Scotland provision is paid for through taxation. This means that, if you are employed or self-employed in Scotland you are entitled to free healthcare from the NHS – as well as your spouse and your immediate family.  Responsibility for the National Health Services in Scotland is a devolved matter and therefore rests with the Scottish Government. Legislation about the NHS is made by the Scottish Parliament. The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Wellbeing has ministerial responsibility in the Scottish Cabinet for the NHS in Scotland.

Blaming the pandemic - is that not the SNP response to anything that is wrong in Scotland?

In any case my 90yr old mother is so glad that it is the SNP and not the Tories who are responsible for the NHS in Scotland. In extreme pain she waited for 9 hrs in Casualty at the weekend but was comforted by the knowledge that Sturgeon constantly repeats "We are better than other parts of the UK".  That really eased her pain.

9 hours is pretty good. My father in law had a stroke and cut his head while falling because of it and the ambulance arrived about 24 hours later. After he got out of ICU he spent about 3 days in a corridor before contracting Covid and going back in. 
 

Well done Drakeford.