NHS Reform

[SandyCromarty]

15 hours ago, Crazy Days said:

The NHS in Scotland is managed by the Scottish Government and the majority of NHS Scotland provision is paid for through taxation. This means that, if you are employed or self-employed in Scotland you are entitled to free healthcare from the NHS – as well as your spouse and your immediate family.  Responsibility for the National Health Services in Scotland is a devolved matter and therefore rests with the Scottish Government. Legislation about the NHS is made by the Scottish Parliament. The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Wellbeing has ministerial responsibility in the Scottish Cabinet for the NHS in Scotland.

Blaming the pandemic - is that not the SNP response to anything that is wrong in Scotland?

In any case my 90yr old mother is so glad that it is the SNP and not the Tories who are responsible for the NHS in Scotland. In extreme pain she waited for 9 hrs in Casualty at the weekend but was comforted by the knowledge that Sturgeon constantly repeats "We are better than other parts of the UK".  That really eased her pain.

Nurses were not on strike in Scotland.

Ambulance personnel are not on strike in Scotland.

Because the SNP Scottish Government has discussions with Cosla and the Unions.

Dangers' graphs above demonstrates the difference in Scotland.

This westminster policy of ignoring unions gives them the idea that they are reviving thatcher policies of fighting unions and bringing them to heel when in fact one of the first things thatcher did when when elected was to give public sector workers a wage rise.

All they are doing is escalating an us and them situation which may well end up in a general strike and make them bring in the military against the populace. 

The call for Independence is growing for Scotland and the sooner we are clear and free away from this idiotic, backward looking fraudulent corrupt tory public school type westminster government the better.

[Todd_is_God]

37 minutes ago, SandyCromarty said:

Nurses were not on strike in Scotland.

Ambulance personnel are not on strike in Scotland.

Because the SNP Scottish Government has discussions with Cosla and the Unions.

Payrises are one thing, but they won't do anything to tackle the issues with the NHS as a whole.

More beds, more doctors, more nurses are the most obvious problems needing resolved, and resolving these issues needs massive investment.

We also need to offer better access to non-emergency healthcare to prevent those who don't really need to be there clogging up A&E as they feel they have nowhere else to go.

No-one, however, appears to have the stomach to cost it and discuss how it would be funded as they know there would be public outcry.

Focusing on how the SNHS is performing a bit less pish than the NHS overall is burying heads in the sand.

[scottsdad]

29 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

Payrises are one thing, but they won't do anything to tackle the issues with the NHS as a whole.

More beds, more doctors, more nurses are the most obvious problems needing resolved, and resolving these issues needs massive investment.

We also need to offer better access to non-emergency healthcare to prevent those who don't really need to be there clogging up A&E as they feel they have nowhere else to go.

No-one, however, appears to have the stomach to cost it and discuss how it would be funded as they know there would be public outcry.

Focusing on how the SNHS is performing a bit less pish than the NHS overall is burying heads in the sand.

I agree to an extent - but retaining existing medical staff is also a huge issue. It's a spiral - not enough nurses/doctors means that the ones we have are working extra hard, which causes burnout and more leaving the service. 

[SandyCromarty]

30 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

 to prevent those who don't really need to be there clogging up A&E as they feel they have nowhere else to go.

Interesting point there.

Reagan when Governor of California went for a major reform of mental health costs.

His take was 'if they can walk and talk I aint feeding them' which resulted in in thousands of uneccessary discharges, some were taken in by families but many ended up on the streets.

In San Francico General I would see many hanging about the public canteen at all hours either scrounging food or generally displaying signs and behaviour relevant to their illness.

[Todd_is_God]

3 minutes ago, scottsdad said:

I agree to an extent - but retaining existing medical staff is also a huge issue. It's a spiral - not enough nurses/doctors means that the ones we have are working extra hard, which causes burnout and more leaving the service. 

Sounds like you wholly agree, then

[Todd_is_God]

2 minutes ago, SandyCromarty said:

Interesting point there.

Reagan when Governor of California went for a major reform of mental health costs.

His take was 'if they can walk and talk I aint feeding them' which resulted in in thousands of uneccessary discharges, some were taken in by families but many ended up on the streets.

In San Francico General I would see many hanging about the public canteen at all hours either scrounging food or generally displaying signs and behaviour relevant to their illness.

I was referring to those who treat A&E as a drop in centre for minor ailments, not necessarily because they are entitled choobs, but because they have no other way of seeing someone.

Edited December 21, 2022 by Todd_is_God

[renton]

25 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

I was referring to those who treat A&E as a drop in centre for minor ailments, not necessarily because they are entitled choobs, but because they have no other way of seeing someone.

Some hospitals, but not all I think do have a minor injuries clinic - nurse led units as well. I've used the one at Western General in Edinburgh a couple of times over the years. It's a really decent service and a good example of alleviating the strain on A+E.

Largely I think there is something to be said for better organisation and logistics within the NHS. A better information filter to let staff get people to where they need to be faster. More digital services (for example, ordering repeat prescriptions) where possible to free up more time for professionals to make face to face consultations. It also would make sense (beyond the likely information privacy issues) to have a database of patient information and the like accessible across the whole NHS as well as a bit more management and logistics support in hospitals to remove paperwork burdens from front line staff.

It might also make sense to get more community nurse led practices that can actually go into the homes of those more vulnerable and liable to require care down the line, and integrate GP services more closely into the NHS.

And yes, more bed and equipment. There needs to be more capacity in the system.

[BFTD]

I remember extra layers of management being introduced into the NHS in the Nineties, much to the chagrin of frontline staff, who were crying out for reinforcements. Did they all get the bullet, or is the idea that those managers need managers to manage their management more efficiently?

[Todd_is_God]

24 minutes ago, renton said:

Some hospitals, but not all I think do have a minor injuries clinic - nurse led units as well. I've used the one at Western General in Edinburgh a couple of times over the years. It's a really decent service and a good example of alleviating the strain on A+E.

Do they operate 24 hours? When I lived in Cathcart there was a minor injuries unit nearby but it wasn't open most of the day and was quite limited in what it could offer.

[renton]

7 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

Do they operate 24 hours? When I lived in Cathcart there was a minor injuries unit nearby but it wasn't open most of the day and was quite limited in what it could offer.

Western General one is 8am to 830pm. Deals with all kinds of stuff. Bone breaks, muscle injuries, weird rashes etc.

[Todd_is_God]

17 minutes ago, renton said:

Western General one is 8am to 830pm. Deals with all kinds of stuff. Bone breaks, muscle injuries, weird rashes etc.

So not 24 hours, then

[renton]

13 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

So not 24 hours, then

No, I suppose the idea that you have a minor injury means it's expected you could probably wait to deal with it, if it came to it.

It's a good idea, still, for alleviating pressure on A+E and could and should be expanded. 

[Todd_is_God]

1 minute ago, renton said:

No, I suppose the idea that you have a minor injury means it's expected you could probably wait to deal with it, if it came to it.

Agreed. But many don't. They treat it as urgent and want it seen right away. They then clog up A&E during what are usually its busiest hours.

2 minutes ago, renton said:

It's a good idea, still, for alleviating pressure on A+E and could and should be expanded. 

I agree.

[The Stig]

3 hours ago, SandyCromarty said:

Nurses were not on strike in Scotland.

Ambulance personnel are not on strike in Scotland.

Because the SNP Scottish Government has discussions with Cosla and the Unions.

Dangers' graphs above demonstrates the difference in Scotland.

This westminster policy of ignoring unions gives them the idea that they are reviving thatcher policies of fighting unions and bringing them to heel when in fact one of the first things thatcher did when when elected was to give public sector workers a wage rise.

All they are doing is escalating an us and them situation which may well end up in a general strike and make them bring in the military against the populace. 

The call for Independence is growing for Scotland and the sooner we are clear and free away from this idiotic, backward looking fraudulent corrupt tory public school type westminster government the better.

 

[Salt n Vinegar]

54 minutes ago, The Stig said:

 

It will be interesting to see if the Scottish Government reps turn on the nurses and try to demonise them the way the Westminster ones have, or whether they go for more talks. I also suspect that the Scottish papers won't go full 'Daily Mail' on the nurses. Will the Mail and the Express go into full hypocrisy mode and demand immediate negotiations? 

Still - every cloud. It'll be quite a spectator sport watching the Scottish Tories wrestle with whether they should support the nurses against the Scottish Government or the Scottish Government's approach to negotiations with the nurses. 

The sooner both sides sit down and talk, the better. 

Edited December 21, 2022 by Salt n Vinegar

[Paco]

Also interesting that large unions have already accepted the Scottish Government offer. 

There’s no differentiation between nurses and other workers in the NHS Scotland pay bands, so I assume an overall deal is held up until the RCN strike an agreement? An agreement which would then apply to everyone? 

Strange times. I have a little bit of sympathy for the SG here, 7.5% is as good an offer as I’ve seen from the public sector, and 3% higher than the offer in England. 

[vikingTON]

Quote

The union, which has more than 30,000 NHS members in Scotland, had asked for an increase of at least 5% above inflation

Completely divorced from reality then. 

[williemillersmoustache]

1 hour ago, Salt n Vinegar said:

It will be interesting to see if the Scottish Government reps turn on the nurses and try to demonise them the way the Westminster ones have, or whether they go for more talks. I also suspect that the Scottish papers won't go full 'Daily Mail' on the nurses. Will the Mail and the Express go into full hypocrisy mode and demand immediate negotiations? 

Still - every cloud. It'll be quite a spectator sport watching the Scottish Tories wrestle with whether they should support the nurses against the Scottish Government or the Scottish Government's approach to negotiations with the nurses. 

The sooner both sides sit down and talk, the better. 

I can't believe Scottish nurses support Vladimir Putins war crimes against Ukraine. Sad times. 

[Salt n Vinegar]

7 minutes ago, virginton said:

Completely divorced from reality then. 

You might think that, but when you consider that pensions and benefits for many people who are not working will be rising by the rate of inflation, while those in work will see their pay shrink in real terms, maybe it's not so 'divorced from reality'.  We still await information from the Treasury about public sector pension increases payable from next April (info due in January, I think?) but I'm expecting the rise, as normal, to be the September CPI figure which I think was just over 10%. 

Also, on each day that any salaries are paid, a sizeable chunk goes straight back to the Government in income tax and NI; maybe not a killer point but I thought I'd make it. 

[Todd_is_God]

1 hour ago, Paco said:

Also interesting that large unions have already accepted the Scottish Government offer. 

Without actually asking their members, however