Our Competitive League

[AJF]

16 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

The whole point is that nothing that will make any difference will get enough support.

That may be the case. I do think there are some that could happen if you are able to switch Rangers or Celtic or change the voting structure. But again though, I already said I don’t envisage them levelling the playing field, but simply make it less of gap.

[Jinky67]

10 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

I’m not doing this again with you. 

It’s literally been said multiple times that no one expects the clubs to buy into this. 

And yes, I’m fully aware that you’re in favour of a competitive league up to the point Celtic are impacted. 

I don’t believe I asked you to. You do realise have the right to also not reply?

 

[Dons_1988]

56 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Precisely this.  The sight of protesting Chelsea fans was especially ridiculous.

Like you though, I welcomed it as a logical extension of what's been happening in football for decades.  I liked the idea of it eating itself and maybe provoking a reset.

Something similar probably remains our best bet of ever seeing positive change.

I remain hopeful. 

Those clubs that were shamed into backing out will still feel they’re entitled to more of the revenue they feel they generate. Something like it will rear its head again. 

[Jacksgranda]

31 minutes ago, pozbaird said:

As others have said, been multiple threads about this, and nothing is ever going to change. The root issue is that in a very small country, we have two disproportionally large clubs. In every major football league you care to mention, they too naturally have their big clubs, middling clubs, wee clubs, and yo-yo clubs. That’s pretty much a given. However, in most other decent standard leagues, unlike us, there are more than two clubs who could win the league, or at least be genuinely sniffing it…. Barcelona & Real Madrid at least have Atletico to think about. Italy has multiple big, well matched clubs. England has at least a big four, if not more when Newcastle truly unlock the baw-bees hidden down the back of their Saudi sofa. Netherlands has Ajax, PSV Eindhoven, Feyenoord. Portugal has Benfica, Sporting Lisbon, Porto. I’m not saying all other leagues see different winners each year, or the title is shared every five years, whatever, but at least there are more than two big clubs who garner support, and media attention, and money. The dynamic changes when two becomes at least three.

Germany and France are weird ones these days. No matter, even with their weirdness, someone list me another ‘major’ or well regarded European league where no-one, outwith the same two clubs, has won their top flight in what is approaching 30 years. Show me another European league where two clubs have supporters buses actively running to their middens from every, and I mean every, corner of the country in multiple towns that have their own professional clubs.

I could also ask to be shown a European league where two clubs have a rivalry based on religion, and an unhealthy dose of bigotry, with a media who have their noses so far up their arses that even Noel Fitzpatrick the Super Vet couldn’t operate on them.

There is no solution. Other than them fcuking off to some sort of European Super League Division 2. Not holding my breath.

We'd still be stuck with their B teams.

[Jinky67]

50 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

None of these things would give us a competitive league.

This is the whole point, the one you are totally missing.

All the things deemed 'sensible' - or that the OF (and on occasion Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen) would agree to - are window dressing. They'd have no actual real impact on the league.

Wage cap as a % of revenue - The OF still stroll it.

Limit on foreign players - The value of Scottish players goes up, making the best ones too pricey for Hearts etc. The OF hoard Scottish players and continue to stroll it.

Ticket prices filling stadium - No impact on who can challenge for the title.

These are non-suggestions.

Firstly keeping Celtic and Rangers in the league will ensure the league is never as competitive as you want it to be…..ever and it never really has been hence why 85% of all Scottish league titles have been hoovered up by them. Yeah there was a bit of  false dawn in the 80’s but 70% of those titles went to either Celtic or Rangers

The best you will ever get to a position is where the gap is closer is where you limit the number of foreign players they can have, impose a wage and squad size cap

Whilst you think this inflates the price of Scottish players well that only happens if they are any good and it forces Celtic and Rangers to buy from YOU meaning they are paying a higher price for a player that may be of lesser quality than they could have bought abroad and YOU profit and the money stays in Scotland. I’d imagine Celtic and Rangers spend a higher % of revenue on wages than anyone else so that narrows a wage gap as a starting point

It forces us all to bring through more Scottish talent however which also benefits the national team as kids have a clearer pathway and a better shot. 

You only want to see the potential negative which I understand because what you really want is to have your cake and eat it and that is either see Celtic and Rangers effectively killed off or for them to leave, the bi-product is a more competitive league for you but just say that.

The only real feasible solution that appeases everyone is that one day Celtic and Rangers join some sort of future Super League but is that really realistic either?

Edited December 24, 2022 by Jinky67

[Dons_1988]

On a slight tangent, on Tuesday night sportsound we’re raving about how the unpredictability of football and the drama of it is why we love it so much. Very true, I thought. 

I look forward to them re emphasising that point today when they headline Celtic beating st Johnstone 3-0 in second gear today. 

[Alert Mongoose]

Probably been said already but personally I would split the league into a 2 (the gruesome twosome) and a 12.  Let them get on with their shitey wee arms race. Eventually the media and some of their fans might actually get bored.

Edited December 24, 2022 by Alert Mongoose

[HibeeJibee]

There are only 2 meaningful 'solutions' - sporting like wiping points/title playoff or financial like wage caps/redistribution.

[ahemps]

5 hours ago, Dons_1988 said:

I have found myself wondering if the European super league idea might have been the triggering event for a more competitive league had it gone ahead. 

Don’t get me wrong, it was a horrendous idea displaying all of what is wrong with football now but if the top 7 or 8 teams had actually pulled up the drawbridge and excluded themselves from uefa competition then that whole champions league, europa league model collapses. 

In that event, domestic leagues would stop designing their leagues based on competing in Europe and maybe, just maybe things might change. 

I doubt it but it needs something seismic for anything to really change. 

I also wonder what the fallout would have been. The money from Europe that distorts most league would potentially have dried up which would (you would think) close the gap to some degree. 

If the super league teams all got together and decided to install salary caps so that their clubs actually make profits rather than losing money then would this influence the rest of football that was left behind? Their salary cap would be something ridiculous like £500m a season so it wouldn't have been under any threat from any other league.

The super league is always inching closer with every change made to appease the big clubs that in my opinion it would have been quicker to just have let it happen. The new format to the CL is going to look like a league so these teams will feel like they are already in such a super league. The 2 extra places to the highest ranked leagues to get more teams in it so the likes of Arsenal going forward will barely miss a season of CL football. I also believe that within 10yrs the CL games will be on weekends and then it will accelerate the process.

[Dons_1988]

3 hours ago, Dons_1988 said:

On a slight tangent, on Tuesday night sportsound we’re raving about how the unpredictability of football and the drama of it is why we love it so much. Very true, I thought. 

I look forward to them re emphasising that point today when they headline Celtic beating st Johnstone 3-0 in second gear today. 

Seems I got this wrong. Such an unpredictable game. 

[Monkey Tennis]

4 hours ago, Jinky67 said:

 

Our TV deal is a joke compared to countries of a similar size where if our game was sold better we could easily split that equally.

We could reimpose salary caps as a % of revenue earned. 

That's just laughable.

[Jinky67]

29 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

That's just laughable.

The current TV deal Is indeed laughable when compared to those in other European counties of a similar size.

Some Scandi countries effectively double what our league receives.

[ahemps]

24 minutes ago, Jinky67 said:

The current TV deal Is indeed laughable when compared to those in other European counties of a similar size.

Some Scandi countries effectively double what our league receives.

Our TV deal will only grow if it attracts neutrals, to non Scottish football fans watching an OF procession every week/season is not appealing.

Where is the market to grow the Scottish game?

[Monkey Tennis]

42 minutes ago, Jinky67 said:

The current TV deal Is indeed laughable when compared to those in other European counties of a similar size.

Some Scandi countries effectively double what our league receives.

The issues are to do with how wealth is distributed; not how much of it there is overall.

Give my regards to Mr Truss.

[Dons_1988]

2 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said:

The issues are to do with how wealth is distributed; not how much of it there is overall.

Give my regards to Mr Truss.

Yes, sky could offer 10 times what they’re paying and the same problem would exist. In fact it would probably make things worse as it would increase the chances of regular champions league participation for them. 

[Jinky67]

19 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

Yes, sky could offer 10 times what they’re paying and the same problem would exist. In fact it would probably make things worse as it would increase the chances of regular champions league participation for them. 

You want wealth distribution and revenue sharing so surely increased chances of regular Champions League participation is a good thing or is it just more important to you that Celtic do less well?

[Jinky67]

2 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said:

The issues are to do with how wealth is distributed; not how much of it there is overall.

Give my regards to Mr Truss.

 If you want wealth distributed then how much there is to distribute is very much an issue if you want to grow the league to be successful.

 

[Monkey Tennis]

1 minute ago, Jinky67 said:

 If you want wealth distributed then how much there is to distribute is very much an issue if you want to grow the league to be successful.

 

Yes, but until a redistribution model is in place - and right now there's no real prospect of such a thing - then the size of the pot is of minimal importance.

[invergowrie arab]

1 hour ago, Jinky67 said:

You want wealth distribution and revenue sharing so surely increased chances of regular Champions League participation is a good thing or is it just more important to you that Celtic do less well?

Almost word for word 

 

 

[Ginaro]

5 hours ago, Jinky67 said:

The current TV deal Is indeed laughable when compared to those in other European counties of a similar size.

Some Scandi countries effectively double what our league receives.

Not surprising as Scandi countries sell all of their games, which is 4x more than the Sky deal.