Next permanent Scotland manager

[welshbairn]

15 minutes ago, GTee said:

See this Gender stuff. Nobody cares. Maybe an occasional pain for the jails. Don't get it.

 

Some guy in the Philippines running a 16chan site is laughing his head off.

Edited February 25, 2023 by welshbairn

[GTee]

Lots of humans are. Was another generalisation. Some are brilliant to be fair. 

[The_Kincardine]

15 minutes ago, GTee said:

See this Gender stuff. Nobody cares. Maybe an occasional pain for the jails. Don't get it.

I strongly disagree.  I think 'this gender stuff' is hugely important and how we treat all folk in society matters a great deal.  The starting point being - of course - "It's your life and I care not a jot how you live it"

The massive problem is that you can't legislate for acceptance without enabling fuckwits and it's impossible to legislate for the desire of most of us to treat people with respect.

[The_Kincardine]

Interesting tweet from the well-respected David Wilson.  The bit he's missing, though, is the extent to which Scotland WAS  'perfidious Albion' - despite @Bodie's sad attempt to say otherwise.

 

[KingRocketman II]

1 hour ago, The_Kincardine said:

Interesting tweet from the well-respected David Wilson.  The bit he's missing, though, is the extent to which Scotland WAS  'perfidious Albion' - despite @Bodie's sad attempt to say otherwise.

 

Much in the same way that you consider yourself to be well-respected, am sure 

[Dunning1874]

4 hours ago, virginton said:

People also have economic and social rights though, which are being massively impacted by, oh I dunno:

• the fucking binfire that is 2020s capitalism

• the onset of a psychopathic Cold War II

• a Brexit island drifting along so uselessly it can't even put vegetables on shop shelves any more and

• local services collapsing left, right and centre. 

So what makes identity rights the fundamental deal-breaker here? I'd say it's because too many people lack the will or the attention to grasp the wider issues that affect their loved ones on a societal level every day. It's a collective navel-gazing exercise rather than a serious political philosophy. 

You are of course correct that these things should be the defining issues of this leadership election, as they should be in pretty much any serious party on Normal Island in 2023.

The only reason other issues have actually become central to this debate is because Forbes was incapable of stopping herself from firing out a cacophany of nonsense the second she started her campaign, despite even accepting herself that the identity issues she's having a bigoted tantrum about are settled and couldn't be changed even if she was to become First Minister. These issues became the defining point of the campaign to date when a credible candidate to win made them issues by insisting on talking about them at length as she launched her leadership bid.

If Forbes had given a credible answer which didn't make her look like a massive bigot when she was asked about it five days ago (how has all this drivel only taken five days?) no one in the country would have batted an eyelid. She utterly failed to do so, then did not back down on believing she can be First Minister despite that self-immolation so here we are, with a campaign entirely defined by concern trolling over identity.

[carpetmonster]

3 minutes ago, Dunning1874 said:

You are of course correct that these things should be the defining issues of this leadership election, as they should be in pretty much any serious party on Normal Island in 2023.

 

By this definition there aren’t any serious parties on Normal Island in 2023 and I concur with that summation. 

[sparky88]

Regan and Yousaf increasingly look spectacularly out of their depth.  Reminds me of how everyone apart from  Tory Party members could see Truss was simply not capable of being PM. 

[Binos]

7 hours ago, The_Kincardine said:

I strongly disagree.  I think 'this gender stuff' is hugely important and how we treat all folk in society matters a great deal.  The starting point being - of course - "It's your life and I care not a jot how you live it"

The massive problem is that you can't legislate for acceptance without enabling fuckwits and it's impossible to legislate for the desire of most of us to treat people with respect.

It's become the only subject 

Even during an ongoing cost of living crisis 

Even whilst inexplicably energy costs in Germany are 60% of here

Edited February 25, 2023 by Binos

[Antlion]

7 hours ago, The_Kincardine said:

Interesting tweet from the well-respected David Wilson.  The bit he's missing, though, is the extent to which Scotland WAS  'perfidious Albion' - despite @Bodie's sad attempt to say otherwise.

 

Once again, your complete ignorance of historical phrases betrays you. “Perfidious Abion” was used to describe England prior to its buying Scotland (eagerly sold by its corrupt elite), and following the creation of GB, it was used to describe that state’s handling of treaties and foreign affairs, neither of which Scotland was empowered to do (as recent events have shown “Scotland” as an entity isn’t even allowed to pass legislation without UK approval).

By all means, though, why not find an example of a Twitter loony or hate-speech-spouting far-righter using it to refer to Scotland in relation to - I don’t know - the Easter Rising. That usually works out well for you.

[Trogdor]

1 hour ago, sparky88 said:

Regan and Yousaf increasingly look spectacularly out of their depth.  Reminds me of how everyone apart from  Tory Party members could see Truss was simply not capable of being PM. 

It's going to be an absolute binfire whoever wins. I'd get a lettuce ready for day 1.

[Lex]

It’s definitely not going to be Forbes. She’s comfortably the most competent of the three (a low bar, certainly) but the fact that she’s a religious nut has clearly ended her campaign.

The next first minister of Scotland will be Humza Yousaf or Ash Regan. It’s now up to the SNP membership to pick the least bad of these two awful options. I have a feeling Regan is going to get it simply because she has had less public disasters and humiliations than Yousaf. 

Edited February 25, 2023 by Lex

[D Angelo Barksdale]

7 hours ago, The_Kincardine said:

Interesting tweet from the well-respected David Wilson.  The bit he's missing, though, is the extent to which Scotland WAS  'perfidious Albion' - despite @Bodie's sad attempt to say otherwise.

 

I've no idea who the well respected David Wilson is. A quick scan reveals he's terminally online and enjoys the musings of Jane Lax, Historywoman and Agent P. It's a pass from me I'm afraid.

Perfidious Albion was of course coined before the Union as I'm sure you're aware and there's really nothing historically inaccurate about my belief that Empire was an English project that Scots eagerly joined (and often surpassed their partners in ingenuity and cruelty) post 1707.

Although a regular feature of P&B is petty, often ill informed off topic squabbles on random threads, if you fancy continuing this then there is now a Big History Thread on GN. I (genuinely btw) would like to hear some of your (non Indy)takes over there. I'll tag you.

 

[alta-pete]

I’m not so sure you’re right @Lex  Forbes went out to 5/1 in the immediate aftermath of the fundamentalism but checking this morning she’s back in to 6/4 just by keeping her head down and staying schtum. And I think we might also find the SNP membership a bit of a broader church than the Holyrood elite. 

@superbigal loaded a wedge on her early and has been conspicuous by his absence the last few days. But after a wee bit of sweat this week I think he’ll be fine. 

Just wait til the hustings start, and the three have to engage the brain before opening the mouth - she’ll become unbackable! 

Edited February 25, 2023 by alta-pete

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

Mhairi Black nails it.

I'm not on Twitter or any other social media (except P & B and a motorcycle forum) but the whole ten-part thread came up on my browser newsfeed and is worth a read in its entirety. Very well written, I think her potential is a little wasted in Westminster. 

[superbigal]

20 minutes ago, alta-pete said:

I’m not so sure you’re right @Lex  Forbes went out to 5/1 in the immediate aftermath of the fundamentalism but checking this morning she’s back in to 6/4 just by keeping her head down and staying schtum. And I think we might also find the SNP membership a bit of a broader church than the Holyrood elite. 

@superbigal loaded a wedge on her early and has been conspicuous by his absence the last few days. But after a wee bit of sweat this week I think he’ll be fine. 

Just wait til the hustings start, and the three have to engage the brain before opening the mouth - she’ll become unbackable! 

I've not been back on the thread mate as it appears to be about 8 people in an echo chamber.  Turning a bit covid thready.  

I did get a fair wedge on Humsa at 2s so I'm pretty happy in terms of my financial return. 

Politically Forbes is streets ahead for me of the other 2

Morally is a different story.

I shall leave it to the 100k members and not the shouty people on here.

[Salt n Vinegar]

8 hours ago, GTee said:

See this Gender stuff. Nobody cares. Maybe an occasional pain for the jails. Don't get it.

 

I can't read the full article because of the paywall, but if the headline is anything to go by, the Herald appears to think that an equality test is a factor and that Forbes has failed it. 

Article title "Herald View: Able and confident, but Kate Forbes fails equality test" 

Article at https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendumnews/23346296.herald-view-able-confident-kate-forbes-fails-equality-test/

Anyone able to summarise the article for the non-subscribers? I'd be particularly interested to hear if the Herald is if the view that an "equality test" for the post of party leader and First Minister is, for want of a better word, fair. (but not interested enough to take out a subscription!) Presumably if the paper didn't think it was a fair test, they wouldn't apply one or fail her on it. 

I'm not as convinced as some that Forbes' campaign is over. Press coverage is if course influenced by the views of their owners. If ran a tory supporting newspaper, I'd be doing all I could to get a duffer to be in charge if every other party. If the Express and the Mail want candidate A to win, I'd be almost sure that I should support candidate B. 

The Herald is hardly renowned for being pro-independence so I'm not blind to the political background to anything they print on this. However, as a responsible publication, of course such an equality test approach will be applied to all other parties and their leaders. Aye, course it will. 

 

[CarrbridgeSaintee]

14 minutes ago, alta-pete said:

I’m not so sure you’re right @Lex  Forbes went out to 5/1 in the immediate aftermath of the fundamentalism but checking this morning she’s back in to 6/4 just by keeping her head down and staying schtum. And I think we might also find the SNP membership a bit of a broader church than the Holyrood elite. 

@superbigal loaded a wedge on her early and has been conspicuous by his absence the last few days. But after a wee bit of sweat this week I think he’ll be fine. 

Just wait til the hustings start, and the three have to engage the brain before opening the mouth - she’ll become unbackable! 

Agreed.

Forbes isn't finished by any means.  As time goes on, there's every chance Yousaf will be exposed as an obnoxious liar, Regan as not sharp, and Forbes as an honest, articulate and genuinely nice person.  Forbes is the most competent out of the three IMO, so you'll see 'big names' coming out to defend her.. this has already started with Jim McColl.

Most people genuinely don't care about the religious beliefs of others, including when it comes to gay marriage and the likes.  With Forbes having stated she isn't going to reopen such debates, people won't care.

[Billy Jean King]

38 minutes ago, Lex said:

It’s definitely not going to be Forbes. She’s comfortably the most competent of the three (a low bar, certainly) but the fact that she’s a religious nut has clearly ended her campaign.

The next first minister of Scotland will be Humza Yousaf or Ash Regan. It’s now up to the SNP membership to pick the least bad of these two awful options. I have a feeling Regan is going to get it simply because she has had less public disasters and humiliations than Yousaf. 

Alba members don't get a vote thankfully so it will not be their stalking horse Regan. She will defect to them shortly after I suspect. 

Edited February 25, 2023 by Billy Jean King

[carpetmonster]

10 minutes ago, CarrbridgeSaintee said:

Agreed.

Forbes isn't finished by any means.  As time goes on, there's every chance Yousaf will be exposed as an obnoxious liar, Regan as not sharp, and Forbes as an honest, articulate and genuinely nice person.  Forbes is the most competent out of the three IMO, so you'll see 'big names' coming out to defend her.. this has already started with Jim McColl.

Most people genuinely don't care about the religious beliefs of others, including when it comes to gay marriage and the likes.  With Forbes having stated she isn't going to reopen such debates, people won't care.

If this were true then the attacks on Yousaf would have focused on his ministerial record rather than ‘well he’s a Muslim so he doesn’t like the gays either’.