Butters Scotch Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 11 hours ago, SlayerX said: We had 18 years of failure with coaching with two centerbacks by five managers. Are you saying that all five managers are bad? A manager who won Euro 96 being one of them as well as a Scotland centerback. SAF, Guardiola and Ancelotti could coach our centerbacks and make then tournament ready. I gave you context. I simplified things by saying that with 3 players there's going to be less space if there was 2. It's basic physics. Yes, of course there has to be coaching and practising, etc. A team with zero coaching isn't going to succeed, regardless of their system. If a manager coaches a team who play with two centerbacks, and he coaches a team who plays with three centerbacks, the three is going to be tighter, more compact and there's going to be less space for the opposition. If coached properly. Steve Clarke's first match was 08/06/19 and he changed formation 04/09/20. It took Steve Clarke 15 months to identify our problem. It took him to do in 15 months what 5 managers couldn't do in 18 years. Levein, McLeish and Strachan all flirted with our current system. But they all bottled it when the media and fans were upset that it wasn't bringing wins. Strachan played our current system when we drew and almost beat them at Hampden. if you disagree, i'm fine with that. I respect your opinion. It's not my job to convince you, nor will it slight me if you disagree. You are still peppering this forum with this 3ATB back 'analysis' I see. The reason we have it is to fit in Robo and KT into the same team. If either are out on long term injuries then I'm pretty sure Clarke would change it to go to a back 4 again. Deluded. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewanandmoreagain Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 14 hours ago, Kadouken_ said: Says who? You keep stating opinions as if they’re facts. Playing 2 CB’s can be far more tighter defensively with coaching than we’ve been for the last year or so with 3 at the back. It all depends on who’s in charge and what they do. Just saying we need to play 3 CB’s means absolutely nothing without any context It depends on the players available as well 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewanandmoreagain Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 (edited) 6 hours ago, AJF said: Every manager has a shelf life though, and I fear Clarke’s may be nearing an end should we go out the competition with a whimper. The drastic difference in our performances and results recently when compared to our early/mid qualifying campaign suggests there’s something not quite right. Hopefully he can turn it around though. Denmark - usually pretty good these days. They have won it in the past Ukraine - IIRC we played them at the wrong time of the season because of the invasion Wales - had Bale and were pretty good back then Edited June 18 by Ewanandmoreagain 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJ70 Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 Remember when people defended craig Brown because we'd qualified, then he picked his duds and we were turfed out despite being clearly 1st or 2nd best team in our groups? I do. Clarke is the same. All his old mates in ahead of better players on form. He cost us 3 year ago, stuffed the World Cup and is now throwing away the easiest chance art group qualification since the championships started. He also made our players grovel in front of england which is unforgiveable. He needs sacking. Now if not yesterday. If we do scrape out of the group it will be despite him so no escaping the bullet. -7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted June 18 Author Share Posted June 18 (edited) 53 minutes ago, PJ70 said: Remember when people defended craig Brown because we'd qualified, then he picked his duds and we were turfed out despite being clearly 1st or 2nd best team in our groups? I do. Clarke is the same. All his old mates in ahead of better players on form. He cost us 3 year ago, stuffed the World Cup and is now throwing away the easiest chance art group qualification since the championships started. He also made our players grovel in front of england which is unforgiveable. He needs sacking. Now if not yesterday. If we do scrape out of the group it will be despite him so no escaping the bullet. Craig Brown might not be the best example given the drought and general chaos we endured after moving on from him. Edited June 18 by 2426255 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagsfan57 Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 Don’t know if it has been said in this thread, but saying at the outset that the target is 4 points puts into the players heads that it’s ok to lose to Germany. It’s a loser mindset. Even after that game, the target should be 6 points. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted June 18 Author Share Posted June 18 (edited) 51 minutes ago, jagsfan57 said: Don’t know if it has been said in this thread, but saying at the outset that the target is 4 points puts into the players heads that it’s ok to lose to Germany. It’s a loser mindset. Even after that game, the target should be 6 points. I think you're misinterpreting the message. A team fighting for relegation might set a target of 40 points to stay up, but still try to win as many games as they can at least until they hit that target. Are you saying the players thought they didn't have to try in this one because we have two games after it? Edited June 18 by 2426255 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagsfan57 Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 51 minutes ago, 2426255 said: I think you're misinterpreting the message. A team fighting for relegation might set a target of 40 points to stay up, but still try to win as many games as they can at least until they hit that target. Are you saying the players thought they didn't have to try in this one because we have two games after it? That’s exactly what I am saying and the performance and result kind of backs that up. Compare that to some of the performances of other teams against top seeds Slovakia, Serbia, Austria 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadouken_ Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 20 hours ago, SlayerX said: We had 18 years of failure with coaching with two centerbacks by five managers. Are you saying that all five managers are bad? A manager who won Euro 96 being one of them as well as a Scotland centerback. SAF, Guardiola and Ancelotti could coach our centerbacks and make then tournament ready. I gave you context. I simplified things by saying that with 3 players there's going to be less space if there was 2. It's basic physics. Yes, of course there has to be coaching and practising, etc. A team with zero coaching isn't going to succeed, regardless of their system. If a manager coaches a team who play with two centerbacks, and he coaches a team who plays with three centerbacks, the three is going to be tighter, more compact and there's going to be less space for the opposition. If coached properly. Steve Clarke's first match was 08/06/19 and he changed formation 04/09/20. It took Steve Clarke 15 months to identify our problem. It took him to do in 15 months what 5 managers couldn't do in 18 years. Levein, McLeish and Strachan all flirted with our current system. But they all bottled it when the media and fans were upset that it wasn't bringing wins. Strachan played our current system when we drew and almost beat them at Hampden. if you disagree, i'm fine with that. I respect your opinion. It's not my job to convince you, nor will it slight me if you disagree. I’d you genuinely think the only reason we didn’t qualify before 2020 is that we didn’t play 3 at the back then you simply can’t be taken seriously. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadouken_ Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 We’re genuinely the only team so far at this tournament who hasn’t even attempted to play football from this century. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pub car king Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 1 hour ago, Kadouken_ said: We’re genuinely the only team so far at this tournament who hasn’t even attempted to play football from this century. We haven't played at all. Scotland have produced the worst performance of the tournament by a quite considerable distance. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Malkmus Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 Was a 9pm kickoff time simply too late for our players, especially after training at altitude in the Alps? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArabFC Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 5 hours ago, PJ70 said: Remember when people defended craig Brown because we'd qualified, then he picked his duds and we were turfed out despite being clearly 1st or 2nd best team in our groups? I do. You don't, or you're mad! In neither '96 or '98 could we have been conceivably considered be the best team in the group by any sane individual. In fact the only bad performance out of the six group games was against Morocco and looking at the lineup I'm at a loss as to who you consider his duds, and who they should have been replaced by. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewanandmoreagain Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 2 hours ago, Kadouken_ said: We’re genuinely the only team so far at this tournament who hasn’t even attempted to play football from this century. Most of our club teams do not play football from this century 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewanandmoreagain Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 30 minutes ago, ArabFC said: You don't, or you're mad! In neither '96 or '98 could we have been conceivably considered be the best team in the group by any sane individual. In fact the only bad performance out of the six group games was against Morocco and looking at the lineup I'm at a loss as to who you consider his duds, and who they should have been replaced by. Craig Burley ! Anyone ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewanandmoreagain Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 It has to be said the teams of Berti and WGS did better against Germany in Germany than we did on Friday night there Brilliant goal by Anya in the latter 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing.McCrosby Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 1 hour ago, pub car king said: We haven't played at all. Scotland have produced the worst performance of the tournament by a quite considerable distance. https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/sport/24394115.75-year-old-dutch-legend-slaughters-ex-celt-scotland-star/ It's hard to imagine there were any neutrals watching that who didn't think were the worst team at the tournament. It's as about embarrassing a start as we could have imagined. Worse id say than @BFTD's Micro dicked pitch shitters. At least they won the game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArabFC Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 20 minutes ago, Ewanandmoreagain said: It has to be said the teams of Berti and WGS did better against Germany in Germany than we did on Friday night there Brilliant goal by Anya in the latter And we still finished 4th in qualifying. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 13 minutes ago, Bing.McCrosby said: Micro dicked pitch shitters Reading Festival 1992. What a time to be alive. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
54_and_counting Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 On 17/06/2024 at 20:58, SlayerX said: I gave you context. I simplified things by saying that with 3 players there's going to be less space if there was 2. It's basic physics. The issue is where the space is reduced, germanys first, second and 3rd goals all came because the back 3 were so deep marking one man sometimes a second man that everything was within the scotland 3rd of the park The 3rd goal eventually, scotland, clarke and everyone has sat for 40 odd mins and watched the German 3 attacking mids run rings round mctominay and mcgregor, yet no one steps up to help them, so the dink into the box is literally by a player whos under no pressure 30 yards out meanwhile the header that gunn saves is what, from 8 or 9 yards out? If the back 3 were any deeper gunn would have been the one pressing the german midfield When wirtz scores the first goal he's unmarked just outside the 18yard box, meanwhile scotlands back 3 plus ralston are almost on the 6 yard line marking 2 men 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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