Airdrieonians 23/24 Championship Thread♦️

[Mr November]

1 hour ago, Jack Reed said:

Think we are going to have to make do with a first Division team playing in the championship ,happy days,bring on the Rovers and Mr Murray,

One of the best teams in the league who we already have a dreadful record against for the last 15 years or so. Not the ideal game to bounce back from today’s nonsense.

[Diamonds are Forever]

3 hours ago, Mingus2000 said:

McCabe had a shocker. Perfectly illustrated the challenges of managing and playing. Deano should have started in the holding role. Aiken has been one of best players. I assume he has a knock, otherwise a questionable decision to leave him out.

 

It's been discussed before but if you look across his time with us he's never been particularly impressive in midfield, in my opinion anyway. He was great filling in at centre back 2 seasons ago, however before he moved back there he didn't show very much in midfield and we started that season terribly. And then last season our best form was when he wasn't playing and McMaster was. In total fairness I didn't think he should have started in the play-offs, but he did and was really good. But this season again he's not looked great in the games I've seen him, his last league performance he went off at 1 nil down to Partick, Aiken and McMaster come on, run the midfield and we play great and win 2-1.

I've always thought his career trajectory before he came to us looked weird aswell, was only in his mid/late twenties but was quickly dropping down the levels, resulting in joining us (a mid-table League 1 side at the time). He's always had the technical ability and seems a good character, so why did he drop down so quickly? I just think physically he's not really effective in midfield. He's slow, can't really get about the pitch and players run off him too easily. On the ball I think he takes too long, and although he can pick a pass, it's usually from 20 yards inside his own half with the whole opposition in front of him, so it's ineffective.

So far this season the only league minutes he's played were 37 against Partick and 64 against Dunfermline, he's then been injured for the last month with his only game being a game against Stirling Uni. Aiken and McMaster have probably been the stand-out players so far this season, for him to come straight back in today given his lack of fitness/sharpness ahead of Aiken given all that I thought was a bit off.

Just as he did in the play-offs last year I really hope he proves me wrong, but I think he's going to have to start looking honestly at whether he is worth his place in the team.

[Diamonds are Forever]

Just seen the goals back, McCabe at the 3rd goal is an embarassment, it's either a lack of effort, which from the manager is shameful. Or he's not fit enough, which isn't much better.

Fordyce looks like an old man running but at least put the effort in to try and get back, or seems to, he ends up out of camera shot pretty quick!

Edited September 16, 2023 by Diamonds are Forever

[Mybitchunderprotest]

1 hour ago, Diamonds are Forever said:

 

It's been discussed before but if you look across his time with us he's never been particularly impressive in midfield, in my opinion anyway. He was great filling in at centre back 2 seasons ago, however before he moved back there he didn't show very much in midfield and we started that season terribly. And then last season our best form was when he wasn't playing and McMaster was. In total fairness I didn't think he should have started in the play-offs, but he did and was really good. But this season again he's not looked great in the games I've seen him, his last league performance he went off at 1 nil down to Partick, Aiken and McMaster come on, run the midfield and we play great and win 2-1.

I've always thought his career trajectory before he came to us looked weird aswell, was only in his mid/late twenties but was quickly dropping down the levels, resulting in joining us (a mid-table League 1 side at the time). He's always had the technical ability and seems a good character, so why did he drop down so quickly? I just think physically he's not really effective in midfield. He's slow, can't really get about the pitch and players run off him too easily. On the ball I think he takes too long, and although he can pick a pass, it's usually from 20 yards inside his own half with the whole opposition in front of him, so it's ineffective.

So far this season the only league minutes he's played were 37 against Partick and 64 against Dunfermline, he's then been injured for the last month with his only game being a game against Stirling Uni. Aiken and McMaster have probably been the stand-out players so far this season, for him to come straight back in today given his lack of fitness/sharpness ahead of Aiken given all that I thought was a bit off.

Just as he did in the play-offs last year I really hope he proves me wrong, but I think he's going to have to start looking honestly at whether he is worth his place in the team.

Spot on.

 

McCabe giving Janny pelters after the second then highlights going straight to the third where he gifts possession then just casually fucking saunters back is not a particularly good look. There is no way he should be a first pick in the middle if the younger laddies are fit. Especially galling hearing his post match comments slating the defending yet taking absolutely no fucking ownership himself.

 

He absolutely cannot start himself next Saturday. 

 

Edited September 16, 2023 by Mybitchunderprotest
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[ExiledLichtie]

50 minutes ago, Diamonds are Forever said:

Just seen the goals back, McCabe at the 3rd goal is an embarassment, it's either a lack of effort, which from the manager is shameful. Or he's not fit enough, which isn't much better.

Fordyce looks like an old man running but at least put the effort in to try and get back, or seems to, he ends up out of camera shot pretty quick!

I hadn't realised that was your manager who just gave up on the half way line, shrugged his shoulders, and watched as Bird wandered up the pitch to score.  That makes it even funnier!

[David Fernández]

Wasn't at the game today so I can't comment on the overall performance but there's some things that are major concerns at the moment.

Our disciplinary record is absolutely shocking, I'm not sure how many red cards we have had between the start of last season and just now but surely that has to be addressed.

Another game where it looks like we have completely capitulated like the two Edinburgh games and the Dunfermline one.

Having watched the goals back all of them are completely embarrassing especially McCabe for the 3rd, I don't believe that's setting a good example for our younger players in the squad.

I really do think we need to try and get another defender in, we've only brought in Mason Hancock and he's barely featured so it's the exact same defence as last season.

Fully expected to take a good few pumpings in the Championship especially with the way we play but there are a few major issues that need to be addressed and the management team need to take responsibility for allowing these makes to keep on happening.

[Diamonds are Forever]

5 minutes ago, David Fernández said:

Wasn't at the game today so I can't comment on the overall performance but there's some things that are major concerns at the moment.

Our disciplinary record is absolutely shocking, I'm not sure how many red cards we have had between the start of last season and just now but surely that has to be addressed.

Another game where it looks like we have completely capitulated like the two Edinburgh games and the Dunfermline one.

Having watched the goals back all of them are completely embarrassing especially McCabe for the 3rd, I don't believe that's setting a good example for our younger players in the squad.

I really do think we need to try and get another defender in, we've only brought in Mason Hancock and he's barely featured so it's the exact same defence as last season.

Fully expected to take a good few pumpings in the Championship especially with the way we play but there are a few major issues that need to be addressed and the management team need to take responsibility for allowing these makes to keep on happening.

 

I think it's 10. 4 straight red (2 x Rae and 1 x Ballantyne, 1 x Smith) and the rest all 2nd yellows. It's the 2nd yellows that frustrate me so much. Straight reds can often be a fraction of a second out, or a split second decision so are sometimes more forgivable. But the second yellows just show a naivety, if you're on a yellow you know what happens when you go near someone, they'll be hitting the deck and shouting for a red like Connor Smith in the play-offs, like against Frizzell the other week and then today. We have to be smarter than that, but every time it happens our players seem surprised.

It's hard to know how much of that McCabe takes responsibility for because it's individual players doing daft things, but the more it happens to more players the manager has to start taking the brunt of it.

[Passionate]

57 minutes ago, Diamonds are Forever said:

Just seen the goals back, McCabe at the 3rd goal is an embarassment, it's either a lack of effort, which from the manager is shameful. Or he's not fit enough, which isn't much better.

Fordyce looks like an old man running but at least put the effort in to try and get back, or seems to, he ends up out of camera shot pretty quick!

We all love a scapegoat,  McCabe this week. Is it,    he was poor who got pass marks. ????  ,    We all know the centre of defence is painfully slow, we needed an upgrade this season we didn't get it,   backup centre half Cassidy is miles of it,  so it is what it is..

I don't get the McMaster, McCabe debate,  although they cannot play in the same team,    McCabe has far more attributes than McMaster,  we need Telfer back fit for more options,   actually our biggest problem is in the final third,  scoring goals keeps you in the league,  Gall most of this season is playing as a false 9,  relying on advanced wingers with pace,  McGregor and O Connor are ok but not championship level, that's fact....  we are the worst in the league with shots on target ,  we need to change it up,  why sign Todorov and only give him 15 mins and say he is pish as well, he needs a run of games is a proven championship goalscorer...

We are in the start of a tailspin there is no Clyde, Peterhead, kelty triple headers to get you out of a slump,  we have 2 weeks left of the backstop final last minute loan deals,  we have been waiting on quality signings all close season,  surely we need to prop this squad up with something..

 

[Diamonds are Forever]

1 minute ago, Passionate said:

We all love a scapegoat,  McCabe this week. Is it,    he was poor who got pass marks. ????  ,    We all know the centre of defence is painfully slow, we needed an upgrade this season we didn't get it,   backup centre half Cassidy is miles of it,  so it is what it is..

I don't get the McMaster, McCabe debate,  although they cannot play in the same team,    McCabe has far more attributes than McMaster,  we need Telfer back fit for more options,   actually our biggest problem is in the final third,  scoring goals keeps you in the league,  Gall most of this season is playing as a false 9,  relying on advanced wingers with pace,  McGregor and O Connor are ok but not championship level, that's fact....  we are the worst in the league with shots on target ,  we need to change it up,  why sign Todorov and only give him 15 mins and say he is pish as well, he needs a run of games is a proven championship goalscorer...

We are in the start of a tailspin there is no Clyde, Peterhead, kelty triple headers to get you out of a slump,  we have 2 weeks left of the backstop final last minute loan deals,  we have been waiting on quality signings all close season,  surely we need to prop this squad up with something..

 

 

Who is making him a scapegoat? We didn't lose because of that 3rd goal, and the chances are he'd have got nowhere near him anyway. But to immediately give up as soon as the guy was away from him is pathetic and sets a dreadful example to his team.

How can he have a go at players if he feels they aren't putting enough effort in in future games when players have now seen that? He also brought himself back into the team at the expense of a young guy who has done pretty well, yet it's clear from that he wasn't fit enough to last the game.

[Glenmavis Diamond]

Arbroath may have had some bad results before, but have won 4 on the bounce now. They're nobodies mugs and showed that today. 3 home wins in a row too. Home form is crucial. Yeah we've lost 3 away games, but we've won our 2 home games. Need to keep home form going but try and pick up some points away from home too. 

Our performance today, whilst awful, is not consistent with how we've played this season. We've had some excellent results with this same group of players. Being the only team to beat Partick in the league being one highlight. 

There's several factors that influenced the outcome of today's game.

1. I think McCabe went with the wrong starting 11 today. Not sure he and McMaster work well in midfield. Also don't think O'connor should be starting, especially if it results in McGregor being put onto the opposite wing from where he's done well lately. And why drop McStravick who has looked good and creative in the last 2 games? Makes no sense. 

2. I also think the wind played it's part, which Arbroath knew how to handle and we clearly didn't. 

3. Too many players weren't at the races today. You can cope with one or two, but not 7 or 8. We were sluggish, 2nd to every ball and out-muscled. They wanted it more. 

4. Too many long, hit and hope passes that didn't come off. That's not how we play. There was far less attempt to play through the middle today. I put that in part down to McCabe and McMaster both playing. Think they both sit too deep so can't expect Frizz to do it all. Gal came back plenty to collect the ball deep and was fouled a lot when he got it. 

5. The ref let a lot of fouls go unpunished for them. Eventually booked a guy twice in quick succession but I felt he would try and level things and he did. They fouled us way more, yet we got 3 cards to their 2? Nuts. Why is this important? Because I think they went out their way to stop us playing. As soon as Gal or Frizz beat their man, they were fouled. Ref didn't clamp down early so they kept doing it. 

There's other factors too but ultimately, we deserved to lose. It happens. What's important is that we work hard this week to make sure it doesn't happen again next week, or any time soon! 

Edited September 16, 2023 by Glenmavis Diamond

[AJ77]

34 minutes ago, Passionate said:

We all love a scapegoat,  McCabe this week. Is it,    he was poor who got pass marks. ????  ,    We all know the centre of defence is painfully slow, we needed an upgrade this season we didn't get it,   backup centre half Cassidy is miles of it,  so it is what it is..

I don't get the McMaster, McCabe debate,  although they cannot play in the same team,    McCabe has far more attributes than McMaster,  we need Telfer back fit for more options,   actually our biggest problem is in the final third,  scoring goals keeps you in the league,  Gall most of this season is playing as a false 9,  relying on advanced wingers with pace,  McGregor and O Connor are ok but not championship level, that's fact....  we are the worst in the league with shots on target ,  we need to change it up,  why sign Todorov and only give him 15 mins and say he is pish as well, he needs a run of games is a proven championship goalscorer...

We are in the start of a tailspin there is no Clyde, Peterhead, kelty triple headers to get you out of a slump,  we have 2 weeks left of the backstop final last minute loan deals,  we have been waiting on quality signings all close season,  surely we need to prop this squad up with something..

 

Our biggest problem is not the final third, our biggest problem is the fact we’ve a league 1 defence which we’ve failed to upgrade in a league above.

[Fuctifano]

Found it funny the chat about your disciplinary record having ten red cards in a season when your team of the early 90s got nine. Would have been ninety under today's rules (though they would have adapted etc etc) 

Newspaper report from @The Thistle Archive via @stuthejag

[1320Lichtie]

18 minutes ago, Glenmavis Diamond said:

Arbroath may have had some bad results before, but have won 4 on the bounce now. They're nobodies mugs and showed that today. 3 home wins in a row too. Home form is crucial. Yeah we've lost 3 away games, but we've won our 2 home games. Need to keep home form going but try and pick up some points away from home too. 

Our performance today, whilst awful, is not consistent with how we've played this season. We've had some excellent results with this same group of players. Being the only team to beat Partick in the league being one highlight. 

There's several factors that influenced the outcome of today's game.

1. I think McCabe went with the wrong starting 11 today. Not sure he and McMaster work well in midfield. Also don't think O'connor should be starting, especially if it results in McGregor being put onto the opposite wing from where he's done well lately. And why drop McStravick who has looked good and creative in the last 2 games? Makes no sense. 

2. I also think the wind played it's part, which Arbroath knew how to handle and we clearly didn't. 

3. Too many players weren't at the races today. You can cope with one or two, but not 7 or 8. We were sluggish, 2nd to every ball and out-muscled. They wanted it more. 

4. Too many long, hit and hope passes that didn't come off. That's not how we play. There was far less attempt to play through the middle today. I put that in part down to McCabe and McMaster both playing. Think they both sit too deep so can't expect Frizz to do it all. Gal came back plenty to collect the ball deep and was fouled a lot when he got it. 

5. The ref let a lot of fouls go unpunished for them. Eventually booked a guy twice in quick succession but I felt he would try and level things and he did. They fouled us way more, yet we got 3 cards to their 2? Nuts. Why is this important? Because I think they went out their way to stop us playing. As soon as Gal or Frizz beat their man, they were fouled. Ref didn't clamp down early so they kept doing it. 

There's other factors too but ultimately, we deserved to lose. It happens. What's important is that we work hard this week to make sure it doesn't happen again next week, or any time soon! 

I’m sorry but on number 5 you’ve got to be joking he gave 13 fouls against us. 13 and there were about 3/4 of them where we won the ball cleanly. That is an absolutely mental takeaway from watching that game today. 
 

Also ‘because I think they went out their way to stop us from playing’ - what does that even mean. Isn’t that the whole point of a team defending?

[Mr November]

2 hours ago, Diamonds are Forever said:

 

It's been discussed before but if you look across his time with us he's never been particularly impressive in midfield, in my opinion anyway. He was great filling in at centre back 2 seasons ago, however before he moved back there he didn't show very much in midfield and we started that season terribly. And then last season our best form was when he wasn't playing and McMaster was. In total fairness I didn't think he should have started in the play-offs, but he did and was really good. But this season again he's not looked great in the games I've seen him, his last league performance he went off at 1 nil down to Partick, Aiken and McMaster come on, run the midfield and we play great and win 2-1.

I've always thought his career trajectory before he came to us looked weird aswell, was only in his mid/late twenties but was quickly dropping down the levels, resulting in joining us (a mid-table League 1 side at the time). He's always had the technical ability and seems a good character, so why did he drop down so quickly? I just think physically he's not really effective in midfield. He's slow, can't really get about the pitch and players run off him too easily. On the ball I think he takes too long, and although he can pick a pass, it's usually from 20 yards inside his own half with the whole opposition in front of him, so it's ineffective.

So far this season the only league minutes he's played were 37 against Partick and 64 against Dunfermline, he's then been injured for the last month with his only game being a game against Stirling Uni. Aiken and McMaster have probably been the stand-out players so far this season, for him to come straight back in today given his lack of fitness/sharpness ahead of Aiken given all that I thought was a bit off.

Just as he did in the play-offs last year I really hope he proves me wrong, but I think he's going to have to start looking honestly at whether he is worth his place in the team.

On your last point, I think McCabe is someone who can show up in the big moments. The goals in the Queen’s Park play-offs, the dominant performances in this years play-offs, scoring set-pieces at big times etc. 

He undoubtedly has more big attributes than McMaster but on the whole I think McMaster gives us better balance. We both harped on about it last season but in the league our best, and most consistent, runs were with McMaster holding. I haven’t seen the goals back from today but we conceded a ridiculous number of goals from just outside the box last season when McCabe was playing holding midfield. I haven’t noticed that to anywhere near the same extent with McMaster in there.

I’m a big fan of McCabe, he was my player of the season in 21/22 and think he still has plenty to offer, but I have thought for a while that McMaster makes us a better team in most games. 

[Glenmavis Diamond]

20 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said:

I’m sorry but on number 5 you’ve got to be joking he gave 13 fouls against us. 13 and there were about 3/4 of them where we won the ball cleanly. That is an absolutely mental takeaway from watching that game today. 
 

Also ‘because I think they went out their way to stop us from playing’ - what does that even mean. Isn’t that the whole point of a team defending?

With all due respect, you've actually proven my point. 13 fouls and only 2 bookings. Yet we had way less fouls and got 3 bookings. Two of which were for the respective players 1st fouls. Irrespective of whether you think they were fouls or not, the ref gave them, yet failed to book players time and time again. So your players kept committing fouls until he eventually booked your boy twice in quick succession. You had a yellow card coming long before it came. He then proceeds to book and send off our player for his only 2 fouls. First one was a yellow for pulling. The 2nd was not. Also booked McCabe for a first foul. He was inconsistent. 

As for your second point, defending is winning the ball. Fouling is fouling. As soon as we got past your man, they committed a foul. Almost every time in the 1dt half. Any most went unpunished so you kept doing it. I never said it was a bad tactic of yours. In fact, it's a clever way to stop a team whose strength (usually!) is playing good football through teams. So it worked well for you. Anyway, that was only 1 point of many I made. The overall point I made was, we deserved to lose. I do believe I ended with that. 

[1320Lichtie]

3 minutes ago, Glenmavis Diamond said:

With all due respect, you've actually proven my point. 13 fouls and only 2 bookings. Yet we had way less fouls and got 3 bookings. Two of which were for the respective players 1st fouls. Irrespective of whether you think they were fouls or not, the ref gave them, yet failed to book players time and time again. So your players kept committing fouls until he eventually booked your boy twice in quick succession. You had a yellow card coming long before it came. He then proceeds to book and send off our player for his only 2 fouls. First one was a yellow for pulling. The 2nd was not. Also booked McCabe for a first foul. He was inconsistent. 

As for your second point, defending is winning the ball. Fouling is fouling. As soon as we got past your man, they committed a foul. Almost every time in the 1dt half. Any most went unpunished so you kept doing it. I never said it was a bad tactic of yours. In fact, it's a clever way to stop a team whose strength (usually!) is playing good football through teams. So it worked well for you. Anyway, that was only 1 point of many I made. The overall point I made was, we deserved to lose. I do believe I ended with that. 

All fouls are different and could be committed by many different players that does not prove anything. 4/5 of our fouls were absolutely never ever fouls so we were never going to get booked for them. 
 

And no I’m sorry, defending is not just winning the ball, you can’t always win the ball. You can force teams into areas and break up their rhythm, defending absolutely is all about stopping the other team from playing and being street smart to get into the other teams head and being physical which all contributes to stopping other teams scoring goals and McCabe and the Airdrie boys better learn that quickly. 

[ExiledLichtie]

Little's first booking came for a foul committed by someone else!  We had multiple fouls given against us where there was no contact.  We had someone sent off within 30 minutes.  How you can possibly look at that refereeing performance and decided it favoured Arbroath is sheer insanity.  Absolutely mindblowing!  That's before we even consider the blatant fouls he let you away with (but he did book others for absolutely nothing!).

I thought there was a consensus that the referee had lost his mind and had an absolute nightmare for both sides.  But apparently not...

[Tattie36]

Can’t we just all agree that the ref was an absolute embarrassment… for both teams.

[Glenmavis Diamond]

12 minutes ago, ExiledLichtie said:

Little's first booking came for a foul committed by someone else!  We had multiple fouls given against us where there was no contact.  We had someone sent off within 30 minutes.  How you can possibly look at that refereeing performance and decided it favoured Arbroath is sheer insanity.  Absolutely mindblowing!  That's before we even consider the blatant fouls he let you away with (but he did book others for absolutely nothing!).

I thought there was a consensus that the referee had lost his mind and had an absolute nightmare for both sides.  But apparently not...

It's not mind blowing. It's very simple. There was a good 6 or 7 early fouls, in very similar positions about 35 yards out, which all went unpunished. Whether you think they were fouls or not is not the point. They were given, so the ref thought they were fouls. So many in a short space of time would be considered consistent. Yet no bookings. Then he books the same player twice very quickly, so sent off. Funnily enough, the fouls pretty much stopped. Then goes out to level it up by giving us 3 bookings, 2 of which were for first fouls, not persistent fouling like your players were doing. 

So it absolutely had an impact. 

One, because the ref didn't clamp down on the fouls quick enough with an early booking and two, because he gives Airdrie more bookings for a fraction of the fouls. The ref was very poor. However, I am in no way blaming him for the loss, merely pointing out it was one of many contributing factors. 

Edited September 17, 2023 by Glenmavis Diamond

[ExiledLichtie]

That is one of the most ludicrous things I've ever read.

Maybe the ref also tied lead blocks to McCabe's boots to stop him tracking back after Bird?  Or carefully sent Ricky Little off after booking him for a foul committed by someone else because he knew that Airdrie don't play well against 10 men?

An absolutely mental take.