Zetterlund Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 1 hour ago, pozbaird said: Err’ the hats, scarves and the Trump bandages… When I was at school in around 3rd year I think, there was a 'popular' lad who got his nose broken in a fight and had a pretty nasty scar which he covered with a similar bandage. All his little disciples copied it, some even going as far as cutting themselves so they had a similar scar. There were multiple scraps between said disciples and those who tried to copy them but were deemed not worthy or popular enough. Absolutely wild behaviour, but at least they had the excuse of being daft teenage boys. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 1 hour ago, Theyellowbox said: Not saying that the top brass didn't know, but the boots on the ground solders, mostly teens didn't fully understand why they were there. Given the lack of knowledge of that part of the world or its history coupled with the void of levels of information we all now have.... The IDF on the other hand, each and every one of them knows and know the history. They can see what is right and wrong in a way previous generations didn't. No, that's utter horseshit. McCain was a bomber pilot with the inherent knowledge of latitude: he knew exactly what he was doing when conducting repeated bombing missions over Hanoi. He just rationalised the indiscriminate bombing of a capital city and the thousands of civilian lives that would be lost as justifiable because America and Fighting Communism. Neither of which are valid justifications. Your claim that all IDF forces are uniquely responsible for their conduct but not combatants in previous conflict zones is just a convenient fiction because you cannot reach a logically consistent position. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theyellowbox Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 12 minutes ago, virginton said: No, that's utter horseshit. McCain was a bomber pilot with the inherent knowledge of latitude: he knew exactly what he was doing when conducting repeated bombing missions over Hanoi. He just rationalised the indiscriminate bombing of a capital city and the thousands of civilian lives that would be lost as justifiable because America and Fighting Communism. Neither of which are valid justifications. Your claim that all IDF forces are uniquely responsible for their conduct but not combatants in previous conflict zones is just a convenient fiction because you cannot reach a logically consistent position. My point though, is that in that moment, McCain and his peers could justify it in their minds as they were being told who the enemy was and why they were fighting them, buy a generation of hero's to them and in a land and county, who's history they had little to knowledge of, other than what they were being told. There is nor a single IDF soldier who does not know the history or where they are and why they are there. Those who do not (if there happened to be one) has the technology so find out very quickly AND can see in real time on line the impact of their actions. Had the soldiers in Vietnam been able to do the same, I'd put good money on them not doing it. I'm not saying the IDF are unique in their responsibilities, but I'd wager that they are the most informed military in any conflict there has been. To bring it back to the issue, the soldiers from Vietnam were able in hindsight to see what their actions caused and a great many (McCain included) spent years trying to make amends or in great regret about it. That gave them a better sense of humanity than the generation(s) that followed, which is why you see the current generation of leaders dismissing them and unable to empathise. The current leaders (if you exclude Trump and Biden) are the first generation not to have either fought themselves in wars or been the generation that followed. Because of that, they have a lack of respect for those who gave up freedoms and lives for service and belittle those who did. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheese Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 I guess one of the side effects of Trump Derangement Syndrome is it white knights and rehabilitates some equally awful people. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheese Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salvo Montalbano Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 Teleprompter right enough then? Not the best image, admittedly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10menwent2mow Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 I refuse to believe that had a bullet even lightly skiffed his lug, he wouldn't have been in a shedload more pain. I'm going with the teleprompter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 21 minutes ago, Cheese said: Sadly photoshopped, here's the original. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theyellowbox Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 3 minutes ago, welshbairn said: Sadly photoshopped, here's the original. You think Trump will crash his plane in solidarity with him? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheese Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 Let me tell you this brother. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10menwent2mow Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 To think that both Farage and Trump have had near death experiences and survived just makes me hate this planet even more. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musketeer Gripweed Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 9 minutes ago, Cheese said: Let me tell you this brother. Bleach, he forgot the bleach. Apart from that, he'll go down a storm with that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funky_nomad Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 5 hours ago, Zetterlund said: I don't know if he's still sporting his long-haired look, but he really did look like some kind of pure evil horror movie villain. Uncanny 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 41 minutes ago, funky_nomad said: Uncanny Where’s Arya Stark when you need her? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherrif John Bunnell Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 2 hours ago, Cheese said: Let me tell you this brother. They have some lineup tonight. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suspect Device Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 Harris was 11/1 and Biden was 3/1 last time I looked. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheese Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 1 hour ago, Suspect Device said: Harris was 11/1 and Biden was 3/1 last time I looked. Bookies clearly anticipating Biden dropping out now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 4 hours ago, Cheese said: Let me tell you this brother. The Hulkster should be more popular than some speakers, considering his recorded views on his daughter dating black men. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNU_Linux Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 5 hours ago, Cheese said: Let me tell you this brother. That's the border wall there brother 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 7 hours ago, Theyellowbox said: My point though, is that in that moment, McCain and his peers could justify it in their minds as they were being told who the enemy was and why they were fighting them, buy a generation of hero's to them and in a land and county, who's history they had little to knowledge of, other than what they were being told. Except that the USA had not declared war against North Vietnam. This was also knowledge to pilots like McCain who followed illegal orders to bomb that capital (and other US pilots who went on to carpet bomb Cambodia and Laos). They knew that such were not even supported by a legal declaration of war; they also knew that they were targeting civilian infrastructure rather than Viet Cong fighters. None of the self-justification you have provided stops their actions from being war crimes for all the stated reasons above. It didn't cover Nazis at Nuremberg and it doesn't cover criminal acts in current day warzones either. Quote There is nor a single IDF soldier who does not know the history or where they are and why they are there. Those who do not (if there happened to be one) has the technology so find out very quickly AND can see in real time on line the impact of their actions. Had the soldiers in Vietnam been able to do the same, I'd put good money on them not doing it. Horseshit. The purpose of US involvement in Vietnam was crystal clear by the late 1960s, they knew exactly what they were doing. Quote To bring it back to the issue, the soldiers from Vietnam were able in hindsight to see what their actions caused and a great many (McCain included) spent years trying to make amends or in great regret about it. That gave them a better sense of humanity than the generation(s) that followed, which is why you see the current generation of leaders dismissing them and unable to empathise. The current leaders (if you exclude Trump and Biden) are the first generation not to have either fought themselves in wars or been the generation that followed. Because of that, they have a lack of respect for those who gave up freedoms and lives for service and belittle those who did. That'll be why as US Senator, McCain was a chief cheerleader for the invasion of Iraq and countless other repeat acts of US imperialism. Oh but it's alright because he expressed regret about that fifteen years after the fact too. The revisionism presenting this right-wing American nationalist and war criminal as some upstanding political titan is nonsense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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