South teams in South Challenge Cup

[Guest]

27 minutes ago, AML67 said:

NS we’re in Round 4 after beating Cambuslang Rangers in the third round ! Stirling Uni we’re just too strong for us on the day 

Oh thats right Lochar beat Jeanfield up in Perth I think, then succumbed to Maryhill at the airfield.

Easily confused in my old age.

[outsider]

23 hours ago, HorseyGhirl said:

Don't worry my friend I  love football. Spent an enjoyable afternoon at Castle Cary yesterday. Creetown a club on the up for me. Uppers not so much, unfortunately. 

No shame from either Saints or Nithsdale considering their opposition. Lochar game could have went either way. Star should have had too much for Craigmark. Vale's defeat in big Scottish was deflating.

Just want to see the South playing a full and active part in the pyramid.

Scottish Cup week after next. I will be at a game, not decided which as yet. And will be on here fending off they pesky West fans afterwards.

Tbh it was the Scoreline at the Dalbeattie game that surprised me, I thought it would've been tight, maybe just a bad day at the office.

[AML67]

On 20/08/2023 at 19:53, HorseyGhirl said:

Oh thats right Lochar beat Jeanfield up in Perth I think, then succumbed to Maryhill at the airfield.

Easily confused in my old age.

I often know how you feel HG ! Big games for the Ferry and NS this weekend before the Scottish Cup the following week 

[Bestsinceslicebread]

On 20/08/2023 at 10:33, HorseyGhirl said:

The SOSFL are part of a pyramid system. If the League and clubs do not want to actively participate in it, the option is there for them to withdraw from it.

One of the positives of a joined up system is the opportunity for local clubs to test themselves competitively against clubs from other areas/regions and hopefully improve as a club on the field and off.

I don't believe for a second that clubs in the league are content being the whipping boys of the pyramid and I as a  supporter of the league will call out poor results when I see them.

I personally do not see a future for the SOSFL as a standalone league at Tier 6 within the growing South Region setup. If regionalisation becomes a reality then it will have a place. 

I visit clubs around the region and see first hand clubs that are investing in their infrastructure and becoming more professional on the pitch.

I was at Creetown yesterday; they are getting ready for the biggest day in many a year on Sat 2nd Sept., when they will play their first Scottish Cup game against Whitehill Welfare. That doesn't strike me as a club who are happy to sit at the bottom of the ladder and accept their place. The players and staff are wanting to advance themselves and their club. Other clubs are of the same mind.

Just to finish on a personal note. I am not a detractor of South clubs; if you are ever on the West Forum you will see that I am a lone voice championing the South against all they 'bams' fae Ayrshire and the Central Belt and their amateur league jibes.

Hopefully this is conveyed the way its intended and is definitely not a slight on the SOSFL
I think, my view, is that the South are there at Tier 6 rightly, why because they joined the SFA at the right time.

Nearly all your post I agree with and your first comment that I have put in bold, I am in total 100% agreement -

But and its a big BUT, unless, for talking sake, the pyramid changed and allowed 3 relegation from the Lowland so it would be the top 3 champions of the WOSFL, EOSFL and the SOSFL are all promoted, I think that would be wrong as the, I believe the SOSFL team will probably be relegated the following season and be the whipping boys and you think, what's the point when there are stronger teams in the East and West. But that can be argued that they may not, they might bring in higher quality of coaching staff, come into money and bring in higher quality of players.  I do however want the best and strongest teams to enter the Lowland on merit but I don't think any team who wins the SOSFL would beat any premier WOSFL and EOSFL premier teams due to the quality, (again my view but that is only from visiting games in the East, South and West).
We all want a 3 up - 3 down throughout the pyramid but would 3 up include the SOSFL champions, right now, it rightly would because SOSFL is at tier 6 but should it

 

The second content that I have put in bold, yeah, agree with that, it could happen as the pyramid progresses and think its the only way that would satisfy all parties. Out with the talk by many that of SOSFL is too high a tier, rightly, we should or any football pyramid should and expect to have each division in each tier the strongest it can be and suppose if the SOSFL was regionalized and go to a tier that 'WE ALL' think it should be then great, but would everyone who supports the SOSFL be supportive of that. Even if they did and it happens then no matter what that should never diminish the chances of any SOSFL being allowed to be promoted like every other team through the divisions to a  level they can cope with or beyond.

I think the South Challenge cup is great,  You have all the teams from Lowland, EOSFL, WOSFL and SOSFL all battling it out to win the cup and this cup is the hardest cup to win but again, comments previously, the promotion of the cup has been way down the listings but its gives SOSFL teams a gauge for them against others and gives SOSFL teams the chance to make a game of it and put out a big gun during their endeavors in the cup.

[Hossy87]

12 hours ago, Bestsinceslicebread said:

Hopefully this is conveyed the way its intended and is definitely not a slight on the SOSFL
I think, my view, is that the South are there at Tier 6 rightly, why because they joined the SFA at the right time.

Nearly all your post I agree with and your first comment that I have put in bold, I am in total 100% agreement -

But and its a big BUT, unless, for talking sake, the pyramid changed and allowed 3 relegation from the Lowland so it would be the top 3 champions of the WOSFL, EOSFL and the SOSFL are all promoted, I think that would be wrong as the, I believe the SOSFL team will probably be relegated the following season and be the whipping boys and you think, what's the point when there are stronger teams in the East and West. But that can be argued that they may not, they might bring in higher quality of coaching staff, come into money and bring in higher quality of players.  I do however want the best and strongest teams to enter the Lowland on merit but I don't think any team who wins the SOSFL would beat any premier WOSFL and EOSFL premier teams due to the quality, (again my view but that is only from visiting games in the East, South and West).
We all want a 3 up - 3 down throughout the pyramid but would 3 up include the SOSFL champions, right now, it rightly would because SOSFL is at tier 6 but should it

 

The second content that I have put in bold, yeah, agree with that, it could happen as the pyramid progresses and think its the only way that would satisfy all parties. Out with the talk by many that of SOSFL is too high a tier, rightly, we should or any football pyramid should and expect to have each division in each tier the strongest it can be and suppose if the SOSFL was regionalized and go to a tier that 'WE ALL' think it should be then great, but would everyone who supports the SOSFL be supportive of that. Even if they did and it happens then no matter what that should never diminish the chances of any SOSFL being allowed to be promoted like every other team through the divisions to a  level they can cope with or beyond.

I think the South Challenge cup is great,  You have all the teams from Lowland, EOSFL, WOSFL and SOSFL all battling it out to win the cup and this cup is the hardest cup to win but again, comments previously, the promotion of the cup has been way down the listings but its gives SOSFL teams a gauge for them against others and gives SOSFL teams the chance to make a game of it and put out a big gun during their endeavors in the cup.

What tier would you put the 5 licensed clubs, 4 of which have been playing by the rules, and complying with SFA licensing conditions for longer than most other West Clubs have been in the pyramid combined.  

I get its a contentious topic and i posted in the West Forum a few days back on this too.

What if we merged the South and West and put all licensed clubs in a West super (South and West licensed clubs) and filled the rest of the spots in the Premier with clubs to meet the number of spots for that league and then dropped the SSFL (non-licensed) T6 clubs in to the West T7; would clubs accept that? 

Ideally you don't and shouldn't penalise anyone, so you may need to rejig the Tiers below. Is having a license enough to catapult you to a higher level  

There is no reason to drop any T6 SSFL club to a lower level but neither has there been any alternative put on the table.  

[Derry Pele]

22 hours ago, Hossy87 said:

What if we merged the South and West and put all licensed clubs in a West super (South and West licensed clubs) and filled the rest of the spots in the Premier with clubs to meet the number of spots for that league and then dropped the SSFL (non-licensed) T6 clubs in to the West T7; would clubs accept that? 

The WoS have had their “throw everyone in and see how they land” season, so this would anger a lot of middle-to-lower Premier teams. 

Additionally, it would lead to most teams being relegated pretty quickly. Look at Bonnyton for reference. 

Either you put the South on the same step as West D4, maybe with the top teams in D3, or you leave it standalone. Could be with a view to creating a Division 5 but can’t see the likes of Dalbeattie or Saints wanting to travel to Campbeltown if they don’t get promotion though

[Guest]

Any merger between West and South clubs should have been sorted at the birth of the WOSFL. As far as I recall it was never mentioned anywhere.

The constant babble about the SOSFL not being at Tier 6 quality level is an irrelevance, because does anyone have the authority to demote the clubs down the levels without their acceptance. 

Personally I do want it 'sorted' for the simple reason that I want the clubs in the region to be successful in the pyramid at whatever level they can flourish at.

I keep citing the experiences of Threave and how they are growing as a club. If you listen to the podcasts from SM Media and PG&DAK; their move West is seen as having a positive impact by virtually everyone.

I hated the results we had to endure from the SRCC last weekend and was very disheartened by some of the levels of acceptance of the defeats.

I do believe playing the same few teams year in year out can make everything a bit stale. Speaking with some of the Threave boys, they are enthralled at the new teams and venues they are visiting week on week out in Div 3 of the WOSFL.

Unfortunately there is no quick or easy solution at this stage now, and also I dont think the will is there from those in charge to change the status quo.

[Bestsinceslicebread]

On 23/08/2023 at 23:27, Hossy87 said:

What tier would you put the 5 licensed clubs, 4 of which have been playing by the rules, and complying with SFA licensing conditions for longer than most other West Clubs have been in the pyramid combined.  

Totally lost, I was replying to Horseygirl, who said "I personally do not see a future for the SOSFL as a standalone league at Tier 6 within the growing South Region setup. If regionalisation becomes a reality then it will have a place. " .
Sorry, I'm lost, what have licensed clubs got to do with this, absolutely nothing as tier 6 is not a 'MUST BE' licensed only' so all clubs should be treated the same unless you want to penalize clubs for not being licensed, if we did make tier 6 licensed only then all we are doing is slowing down the pyramid further.
I'm talking about if the pyramid was opened up with 3 relegated from the Lowland league, right now, meaning the champions of the 3 associations would be promoted, the standard, the SOSFL is way lower than both the WOSFL and EOSFL premier leagues and to be fair, anyone who says differently is a liar.
Many of the gripes of the West clique about SOSFL being in tier 6 are wrong as SOSFL is rightly in tier 6 but most haven't even seen a SOSFL team play so why do they comment lol

I get its a contentious topic and i posted in the West Forum a few days back on this too.

What if we merged the South and West and put all licensed clubs in a West super (South and West licensed clubs) and filled the rest of the spots in the Premier with clubs to meet the number of spots for that league and then dropped the SSFL (non-licensed) T6 clubs in to the West T7; would clubs accept that? 
Again if there is going to be any kind of merger can you please put licensed clubs out of your head, if you don't you are penalizing clubs who are not licensed and who are stronger and bigger than licensed ones

Ideally you don't and shouldn't penalize anyone, so you may need to rejig the Tiers below. Is having a license enough to catapult you to a higher level  
We don't want any team penalized and again having a licensed should not catapult any team to a higher level

There is no reason to drop any T6 SSFL club to a lower level but neither has there been any alternative put on the table.  
I don't believe its effecting anything with SOSFL being at tier 6, I do believe it would if it was opened to 3 up, 3 down to and from the Lowland League but that wont happen for a while either.  I cant see any changes to tier 6 in the lowland for quite some time

 

Edited August 25, 2023 by Bestsinceslicebread

[AML67]

On 23/08/2023 at 10:32, Bestsinceslicebread said:

Hopefully this is conveyed the way its intended and is definitely not a slight on the SOSFL
I think, my view, is that the South are there at Tier 6 rightly, why because they joined the SFA at the right time.

Nearly all your post I agree with and your first comment that I have put in bold, I am in total 100% agreement -

But and its a big BUT, unless, for talking sake, the pyramid changed and allowed 3 relegation from the Lowland so it would be the top 3 champions of the WOSFL, EOSFL and the SOSFL are all promoted, I think that would be wrong as the, I believe the SOSFL team will probably be relegated the following season and be the whipping boys and you think, what's the point when there are stronger teams in the East and West. But that can be argued that they may not, they might bring in higher quality of coaching staff, come into money and bring in higher quality of players.  I do however want the best and strongest teams to enter the Lowland on merit but I don't think any team who wins the SOSFL would beat any premier WOSFL and EOSFL premier teams due to the quality, (again my view but that is only from visiting games in the East, South and West).
We all want a 3 up - 3 down throughout the pyramid but would 3 up include the SOSFL champions, right now, it rightly would because SOSFL is at tier 6 but should it

 

The second content that I have put in bold, yeah, agree with that, it could happen as the pyramid progresses and think its the only way that would satisfy all parties. Out with the talk by many that of SOSFL is too high a tier, rightly, we should or any football pyramid should and expect to have each division in each tier the strongest it can be and suppose if the SOSFL was regionalized and go to a tier that 'WE ALL' think it should be then great, but would everyone who supports the SOSFL be supportive of that. Even if they did and it happens then no matter what that should never diminish the chances of any SOSFL being allowed to be promoted like every other team through the divisions to a  level they can cope with or beyond.

I think the South Challenge cup is great,  You have all the teams from Lowland, EOSFL, WOSFL and SOSFL all battling it out to win the cup and this cup is the hardest cup to win but again, comments previously, the promotion of the cup has been way down the listings but its gives SOSFL teams a gauge for them against others and gives SOSFL teams the chance to make a game of it and put out a big gun during their endeavors in the cup.

Newton Stewart beat a WOSFL Premier side last season in Cambuslang Rangers away from home and have an opportunity against an EOSFL Premier side next week in the Scottish Cup when we play Luncarty ! Last season we beat former Lowland League side Preston Athletic in the Cup so it shows this apparent gulf can be bridged although possibly not over a season without as you’ve suggested investment. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, AML67 said:

Newton Stewart beat a WOSFL Premier side last season in Cambuslang Rangers away from home and have an opportunity against an EOSFL Premier side next week in the Scottish Cup when we play Luncarty ! Last season we beat former Lowland League side Preston Athletic in the Cup so it shows this apparent gulf can be bridged although possibly not over a season without as you’ve suggested investment. 

A question for all.

Is the future of South clubs and SOSFL in the pyramid discussed in the committee rooms or social club or at games?

Do the SOSFL and clubs feel there is any need or cause to change the current setup?

If they don't then this is an unnecessary discussion we are having.

[vikingTON]

2 hours ago, Bestsinceslicebread said:

Again if there is going to be any kind of merger can you please put licensed clubs out of your head, if you don't you are penalizing clubs who are not licensed and who are stronger and bigger than licensed ones.

If they're stronger and bigger clubs then they've got no excuses for failing to do the required work in terms of facilities to be eligible for a license. 

6 minutes ago, HorseyGhirl said:

A question for all.

Is the future of South clubs and SOSFL in the pyramid discussed in the committee rooms or social club or at games?

Do the SOSFL and clubs feel there is any need or cause to change the current setup?

If they don't then this is an unnecessary discussion we are having.

It's a football forum and so virtually all discussions are either unnecessary and/or irrelevant to what happens. 

[FairWeatherFan]

27 minutes ago, HorseyGhirl said:

A question for all.

Is the future of South clubs and SOSFL in the pyramid discussed in the committee rooms or social club or at games?

Do the SOSFL and clubs feel there is any need or cause to change the current setup?

If they don't then this is an unnecessary discussion we are having.

Not really.

Individual clubs have weighed up their options, Threave & Bonnyton moving on and others choosing to stay. As a league through PWG meetings and the introduction of the WoSFL there has been no desire to alter their standing.

Until the Lowland League opens up promotion/relegation between Tier 5 & 6 there's not going to be a real discussion. Even if promotion opportunities increased to 2 spots, the existing LL Playoff and Tier 6 structure works without a need for amendment.

 

[Jamie92]

On 25/08/2023 at 09:11, HorseyGhirl said:

A question for all.

Is the future of South clubs and SOSFL in the pyramid discussed in the committee rooms or social club or at games?

Do the SOSFL and clubs feel there is any need or cause to change the current setup?

If they don't then this is an unnecessary discussion we are having.

No 

No 

Was a worry two seasons ago when threave went which many thought would lead to a mass exodus but never happened. Lose a few cups and we will be fine in the south, the 6 (Yes Six?!) cups are way too many for the 12 teams sometimes 16 depending on the regional competition. Can get a bit repetitive/boring in a way for players playing against the same team if it gets too often but still at this point I don’t think clubs see it much as an issue. West is Ayrshire and Glasgow, they hardly care for our region so leave it as it is. Kello are junior and proud and threave wanted a change for the reason previously mentioned about playing the same teams 4/5 times a season. 
 

West is also a closed shop now, South is the only option for Glasgow/Ayrshire teams if they want in the pyramid. Balls now in our court until West open their doors again. 

Edited August 26, 2023 by Jamie92

[Guest]

The West's, as yet unconfirmed, limiting the League to 80 clubs would appear to be a bit of a god-send to the SOSFL, in that there is no avenue for any more clubs to do a Threave.

I have only followed the League since last season so unaware of its history. Watching different clubs, the gap between the top clubs and those below is very noticeable even this early. Albeit in amateur and youth league's, teams that continually are on the receiving end of heavy defeats have found it increasingly difficult to basically get a team out on the park as players become disinterested and leave. The SOSFL has very little wriggle room to accommodate any clubs folding. This is my main concern.

All I want is for the clubs to flourish and grow there is no ulterior motive on my part.

I witness weekly the good work clubs are putting in both onfield and off. Some of the club's have a potentially good future and need to be in an environment where that can happen.

Can the SOSFL provide this environment?

As you said things can become stale. Speaking with Threave players and staff the new teams, players and venues they are encountering is proving to be a massive positive.

Hoping next week's Scottish Cup ties are good to our clubs otherwise I will be in for a hard time from the West posters I converse with.

I'm pretty certain the position of the South and it's clubs will continue to be a discussion point as the pyramid continues.

 

[AML67]

On 25/08/2023 at 09:11, HorseyGhirl said:

A question for all.

Is the future of South clubs and SOSFL in the pyramid discussed in the committee rooms or social club or at games?

Do the SOSFL and clubs feel there is any need or cause to change the current setup?

If they don't then this is an unnecessary discussion we are having.

It was certainly mentioned when we put in an application to the West during its original set up ( which we ultimately decided against at that time ) and I can assure you that many realise that the possibility of an amalgamation of sorts somewhere down the road is a distinct possibility !

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, AML67 said:

It was certainly mentioned when we put in an application to the West during its original set up ( which we ultimately decided against at that time ) and I can assure you that many realise that the possibility of an amalgamation of sorts somewhere down the road is a distinct possibility !

My feeling is that whatever eventually occurs in the south, the club's themselves need to proactive throughout and not sit and wait for any association or league to decide their fate.

I know the SOSFL is a historic league but for me its the club's futures that are important not any league.

The west has shown us that, what with the number of clubs which are flourishing in the new setup.

[AML67]

On 30/08/2023 at 21:26, HorseyGhirl said:

My feeling is that whatever eventually occurs in the south, the club's themselves need to proactive throughout and not sit and wait for any association or league to decide their fate.

I know the SOSFL is a historic league but for me its the club's futures that are important not any league.

The west has shown us that, what with the number of clubs which are flourishing in the new setup.

The obvious difficulty the South has is manly geographical and to a slightly lesser degree population density ! The East were on their knees with 13 members Clubs before the Junior invasion ( we had 16 at that time ) yet we are seen as non progressive because we didn’t have 40 ex junior sides to rejuvenate our League ! It would’ve been wonderful m sire all South Clubs would’ve agree but what can we do when no one bar the likes of Glasgow Wellington apply to join the set up .

If two or three of our members Clubs tried the Threave route the South is dead in the water and I for one would hate to see that after 75 years because I’d rather a few more stepped up to reinvigorate the League. Gretna may ultimately fall in to the South which would boost numbers bu5 other than that I can5 see where anyone else is coming from ! 

[Guest]

15 hours ago, AML67 said:

The obvious difficulty the South has is manly geographical and to a slightly lesser degree population density ! The East were on their knees with 13 members Clubs before the Junior invasion ( we had 16 at that time ) yet we are seen as non progressive because we didn’t have 40 ex junior sides to rejuvenate our League ! It would’ve been wonderful m sire all South Clubs would’ve agree but what can we do when no one bar the likes of Glasgow Wellington apply to join the set up .

If two or three of our members Clubs tried the Threave route the South is dead in the water and I for one would hate to see that after 75 years because I’d rather a few more stepped up to reinvigorate the League. Gretna may ultimately fall in to the South which would boost numbers bu5 other than that I can5 see where anyone else is coming from ! 

I honestly can't see there being any new clubs entering the league. The player pool in the area, for the existing clubs appears to be stretched to its maximum. Some clubs are playing boys that would be better served at u20's or even younger level. And as I've mentioned previously, you don't want or need some of these 'clown clubs' joining up.

I have no affinity or connection with the league and being honest would not miss it if it folded or is assimilated. I do however have a high regard for the clubs in the area. 

If the clubs' future existence is better served in another setup, like Threave have done, I will happily support them.

I appreciate this won't be popular with many traditional fans in the area.

As you will be aware I attend different clubs in the area and can see the work that has been put in and is being done for the future. (Only Stranraer, NW and the 2 Annandale's have not had that pleasure to date). The facilities and setups at some clubs are on at least a par with some clubs in the East Premier and West Premier.

A big concern I see is the widening gap between top and bottom in the league. To put it simply the entirety of the clubs would be better served if they were in leagues with other clubs at or around their level. 

If a way could be found for the South clubs to either become a league below West Div 4 or my preferred solution the 28 odd clubs join and have 2 conference league's for a season and then become 2 league's.

This, I feel, would also accommodate the clubs further north who want to join the pyramid but cannot at moment as WOSFL appear to want to stop at 80 clubs. 

But if there were enough clubs below West Div 3, a new sub-league could be setup, affiliated to the West but with it's own league management structure.

I know I'm a dreamer. But as I keep harping on, all I want to see is the clubs in the area continue to grow and flourish.

I have much more to say but I will have put some to sleep long before they get to the end of this.

[Benidorm]

I think eventually what will happen over time is the death by a thousand cuts outcome. There will be an increasing trickle effect where another handful of the better resourced and more ambitious members decide to defect to the West and then you're left with a crisis. Threave have shown there's life to the staggered approach of climbing up the West and finding their level at a reasonable standard of football rather than playing in the South in a league filled with amateur standard players and with a glass ceiling, hoping one day to get lucky and into the LL for a season of cricket scores. If you ended up with the SOS lock stock moving to the bottom of the West you'd potentially end up with further regionalisation to maintain the balance i.e. South Ayrshire/Lanarkshire teams playing in a Div 4/5 south and I can't imagine that would go down well with the lower ranking SOS teams who both do not want the extra travel and fear a regular shoeing. 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 6, 2023 by Benidorm

[Guest]

Round 2 weekend almost upon us.

Friday Mids v Lemahagow 

Saturday W&B v Forth Wand

Uppers v Newton Stewart

Creetown v Whitletts

Abbey Vale v Royal Albert

One guarantee participant in Round 3. Vale should better RA, Creetown and W&B have a chance. Can't see Mids giving Lesmahagow any frights.

 

Edited September 14, 2023 by HorseyGhirl