TxRover Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 39 minutes ago, StellarHibee said: Owned by the same people. Yep, and with entirely different editorial direction ordered. Makes you wonder if they’re there to report news or make money… 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarHibee Posted August 3, 2023 Author Share Posted August 3, 2023 4 hours ago, TxRover said: Yep, and with entirely different editorial direction ordered. Makes you wonder if they’re there to report news or make money… Divide and conquer. As long as we're all in disagreement, the default system remains in place. The system that benefits these billionaires the most. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 22 hours ago, TxRover said: Come on, dark skinned aliens… The Telegraph, the Times, the Daily Express and the Daily Mail would have a cow, and be demanding Westminster raise the drawbridge… The Guardian, the Daily Mirror and the Observer would love the story, and be suggesting reparations… The Independent would report the news… The Financial Times would report the market gyrations… And the Daily Sun would just pray they had boobs. And Suella Braverman would want then sent to Rwanda. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KH4 Posted August 8, 2023 Share Posted August 8, 2023 (edited) I don't believe the recent developments have done much to advance the discussion, other than the fact that it's not insignificant that it's being addressed publicly at that level. There are a few different questions here, the main one being whether we're alone in the universe. I don't believe anyone can answer that question either way, although based on what we know about the universe it's far more likely that there's some form of life out there than not. Anyone that definitively states that there's no life beyond earth is as daft as someone giving specifics about aliens IMO. The truth is we just don't know. The rare earth hypothesis is interesting, but given the unimaginable scale of the universe, even something exceptionally rare could happen countless times. It can happen, it's already happened so it's entirely possible that it could happen elsewhere at least more than once. Then there's the question of how advanced any life forms are. Planets were forming billions of years before there was any sign of life on ours. Then again, in terms of time we're closer to the age of the T Rex than the T Rex is to the Stegosaurus, so you could have Millions/Billions of years where there's no technological advancement even if there is life. The other question is whether there's anything within our immediate neighbourhood. Again, based on what we know about the universe I don't believe that's likely, but a lack of evidence isn't tremendously meaningful. If there is something there, they're significantly more advanced than us, possibly by millions of years if not more. If something has been able to negotiate the seemingly impossible barrier of interstellar travel, how likely is it that we would be able to successfully gather evidence of its presence if it didn't want to be found? You're not going to get the Alien in a fishtank or a crashed spaceship, it's just never going to happen. That's my pragmatic analysis, but there are theories I find interesting. The Fermi Paradox and some of the answers to it are a good place to start for anyone looking looking for something a little less tinfoilish. Essentially, the gist of it is given the high probability of life elsewhere in the universe, why is there so little evidence of it? There are a multitude of answers for this, ranging from the suggestion that no civilisation has developed interstellar travel to the possibility that any sensible civilisation knows enough to know that it's better to remain hidden. Hidden from what I don't know, but there have been suggestions that our own SETI shouldnt be sending signals out to god knows what. Until Trump's Space Force is capable of mustering even the most rudimentary defence, I'd probably be inclined to agree. Edited August 8, 2023 by KH4 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 18 hours ago, KH4 said: I don't believe the recent developments have done much to advance the discussion, other than the fact that it's not insignificant that it's being addressed publicly at that level. There are a few different questions here, the main one being whether we're alone in the universe. I don't believe anyone can answer that question either way, although based on what we know about the universe it's far more likely that there's some form of life out there than not. Anyone that definitively states that there's no life beyond earth is as daft as someone giving specifics about aliens IMO. The truth is we just don't know. The rare earth hypothesis is interesting, but given the unimaginable scale of the universe, even something exceptionally rare could happen countless times. It can happen, it's already happened so it's entirely possible that it could happen elsewhere at least more than once. Then there's the question of how advanced any life forms are. Planets were forming billions of years before there was any sign of life on ours. Then again, in terms of time we're closer to the age of the T Rex than the T Rex is to the Stegosaurus, so you could have Millions/Billions of years where there's no technological advancement even if there is life. The other question is whether there's anything within our immediate neighbourhood. Again, based on what we know about the universe I don't believe that's likely, but a lack of evidence isn't tremendously meaningful. If there is something there, they're significantly more advanced than us, possibly by millions of years if not more. If something has been able to negotiate the seemingly impossible barrier of interstellar travel, how likely is it that we would be able to successfully gather evidence of its presence if it didn't want to be found? You're not going to get the Alien in a fishtank or a crashed spaceship, it's just never going to happen. That's my pragmatic analysis, but there are theories I find interesting. The Fermi Paradox and some of the answers to it are a good place to start for anyone looking looking for something a little less tinfoilish. Essentially, the gist of it is given the high probability of life elsewhere in the universe, why is there so little evidence of it? There are a multitude of answers for this, ranging from the suggestion that no civilisation has developed interstellar travel to the possibility that any sensible civilisation knows enough to know that it's better to remain hidden. Hidden from what I don't know, but there have been suggestions that our own SETI shouldnt be sending signals out to god knows what. Until Trump's Space Force is capable of mustering even the most rudimentary defence, I'd probably be inclined to agree. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Angelo Barksdale Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 Starship Troopers is probably the more apt comparison imo. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 1 minute ago, Ziggy Sobotka said: Starship Troopers is probably the more apt comparison imo. I swithered over it for the fascism angle but the hillbilly reference won out in the end. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 (edited) Besides, any culture or being that had developed the technology to harness interstellar travel over an anthropomorphic time frame would have access to sources of energy that would make the aggregate of all human output since the dawn of time look like the damp embers of an extinguished camp fire by comparison that we'd look entirely uninteresting. Else, such a culture may have levels of longevity that they could travel at sub light speeds and still consider interstellar travel as viable would have developed a frame of reference vs universal time so divergent from ours, it'd be like an oak tree trying to talk to a mayfly. Stanislaw Lem spent at least three novels (Solaris, His Master's Voice, Invincible) on the theme of the soul crushing futility of trying to establish "contact" with any sufficiently alien form of life that there is no common reference points between species - and thus no way to establish meaning or form. Then again, maybe there really is a universe teaming with life, a peaceful galactic federation of races with latex ears and bumpy foreheads and suspiciously English sounding idioms and phrases, in which case the answer to the Fermi Paradox is simple: if there is a group of hyper violent apes who've progressed from flinging shit at each other to throwing megatonnes of heavy metal at each other, should they be shocked that no one wants to talk to them? Edited August 9, 2023 by renton 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KH4 Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 (edited) Sometimes I feel people just aren't taking Donald Trump's Space Force seriously. They're our first, last and only line of defence. Sure, as far as we know we're the worst scum in the universe, but they still do important work. I'm intrigued and dismayed in equal measure at the idea that we're such an insignificant cosmic speck of insect s*** that any intelligent being would nudge our miserable planet out the way to get somewhere more interesting. I'm at least open to the possibility that they'd have some degree of interest in our planet, if not us. If the bumpy forehead creatures landed in Times Square and bought "I LOVE NY" T Shirts it would be the most significant event in human history. I think there may be some alternative to the notion that finding us would be the equivalent of picking an old scratchcard up off the ground and then throwing it away in disappointment because it's not a winner. Maybe they are jaded by the incessant grind of discovery, and scrubs like us are ten a penny. They'd at least want to refill their cisterns with all our lovely contaminated drinking water though, wouldn't they? Edited August 9, 2023 by KH4 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt n Vinegar Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 I'm a bit more doom laden on the subject of aliens. I'm with those who know that intelligence does not equal wisdom. The films of the past century give us clues about human behaviour. Nuclear weapons. Apocalyptic religions. Messing around with diseases for various reasons. The development of the world wide web coupled with the prospects of AI. It seems to me that there's a fighting chance that no "civilisation" that develops these can survive long enough to make the scientific breakthroughs that might make fast travel possible. These breakthroughs may be thought up and created by folk with good intentions but not all "leaders" have good intentions and a handful of individuals can (and probably will) cause utter chaos. Maybe the reason why we haven't detected or contacted/haven't been contacted by other civilisations is because they didn't survive much beyond the nuclear age. Battlestar Galactica anyone? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxRover Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 (edited) On 09/08/2023 at 07:12, Salt n Vinegar said: I'm a bit more doom laden on the subject of aliens. I'm with those who know that intelligence does not equal wisdom. The films of the past century give us clues about human behaviour. Nuclear weapons. Apocalyptic religions. Messing around with diseases for various reasons. The development of the world wide web coupled with the prospects of AI. It seems to me that there's a fighting chance that no "civilisation" that develops these can survive long enough to make the scientific breakthroughs that might make fast travel possible. These breakthroughs may be thought up and created by folk with good intentions but not all "leaders" have good intentions and a handful of individuals can (and probably will) cause utter chaos. Maybe the reason why we haven't detected or contacted/haven't been contacted by other civilisations is because they didn't survive much beyond the nuclear age. Battlestar Galactica anyone? Doom laden, you can simply take the example of, well, anytime a marginally more advanced cultural group decided the land of another less advanced group looked nice. In the America’s, the decimation of the South and Central American residents via disease and the deliberate spreading of small pox among the Native American tribes in North America. Beware aliens proferring technology… Edited January 11 by TxRover 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimto90 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 This is the year some serious stuff r:e this comes out & I cannot wait. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 10 hours ago, Vimto90 said: This is the year some serious stuff r:e this comes out & I cannot wait. Sure it is... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orfc Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 On 09/08/2023 at 10:19, renton said: Else, such a culture may have levels of longevity that they could travel at sub light speeds and still consider interstellar travel as viable would have developed a frame of reference vs universal time so divergent from ours, it'd be like an oak tree trying to talk to a mayfly. Stanislaw Lem spent at least three novels (Solaris, His Master's Voice, Invincible) on the theme of the soul crushing futility of trying to establish "contact" with any sufficiently alien form of life that there is no common reference points between species - and thus no way to establish meaning or form. Roadside Picnic man https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roadside_Picnic 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Sanchez Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 14 hours ago, Vimto90 said: This is the year some serious stuff r:e this comes out & I cannot wait. What's going to come out? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxRover Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 On 10/01/2024 at 08:36, Miguel Sanchez said: What's going to come out? The aliens, as transgender, which will be hilarious in the U.S. House… 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt n Vinegar Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 12 minutes ago, TxRover said: The aliens, as transgender, which will be hilarious in the U.S. House… Just wait until the Americans find out that the new Prime Minister of France is gay. They'll break off diplomatic relations! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxRover Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 1 minute ago, Salt n Vinegar said: Just wait until the Americans find out that the new Prime Minister of France is gay. They'll break off diplomatic relations! If the Republicans win they will. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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