Which side are you on?

[jagfox]

1 hour ago, Suspect Device said:

Certainly not by attacking a music festival or bombing Gaza to rubble.

 

I have no idea behind HAMAS' thinking behind the attack. They can't beat Israel militarily. 

Was it just a shock attack or are there other influences behind it?

I have no idea. It has just resulted in many civilian deaths, injuries and Gaza being bombed again.

[welshbairn]

Inbetween murdering civilians they did manage to overwhelm at least 4 military bases and a number of police stations and border posts. 

[Freedom Farter]

Here's an Israeli's opinion, short read:

https://archive.ph/lSVLH

[Granny Danger]

53 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

I agree Granny, yet it doesn't seem to deter politicians from across the globe rushing to immediate judgement.

Either they know more than the rest of us or they are fearful of the consequences of any hint of contemplation prior to condemnation.

Yeah but I think most of us on here hold ourselves to higher standards than said politicians.

 

[jagfox]

31 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Inbetween murdering civilians they did manage to overwhelm at least 4 military bases and a number of police stations and border posts. 

To what end though? They'll be retaken by now and they lost 1500 fighters going by reports?

[Richey Edwards]

23 minutes ago, jagfox said:

I have no idea behind HAMAS' thinking behind the attack. They can't beat Israel militarily. 

Was it just a shock attack or are there other influences behind it?

I have no idea. It has just resulted in many civilian deaths, injuries and Gaza being bombed again.

I don't know what HAMAS hoped to achieve, unless the whole idea was to get as many people as possible killed. I'm no expert on military tactics, but I think it was a monumentally stupid and futile thing to do.

For the record, I believe that everyone in every nation has the right to live their lives free from the horrors of war - and free from the threat of their homes being obliterated by bombs.

I support a peaceful resolution, and not yet more needless death and destruction in this endless cycle. A naive hope to have, because there's probably no chance of it ever happening.

However, violence is not the solution. It never was. Unfortunately, violence comes easier than dialogue for some people. 

[sparky88]

45 minutes ago, jagfox said:

I have no idea behind HAMAS' thinking behind the attack. They can't beat Israel militarily. 

They must have known the reaction would have been what it has been. 

In any case the Israeli reaction to the terrorist attacks will probably ensure the continuation of Hamas's influence, one way or another, for decades to come. 

[D Angelo Barksdale]

I support Hibernian and Scotland and no one else.

No time for these types who follow foreign sides. Support your local team.

[oneteaminglasgow]

19 minutes ago, jagfox said:

To what end though? They'll be retaken by now and they lost 1500 fighters going by reports?

They have, I think, been reported that they're attempting to use the Israeli hostages to negotiate for the release of Palestinian prisoners. So that's presumably part of it.

There's also the fact that they've got nothing to lose, I guess. They're in a massive open air prison against an enemy with no interest in that changing. This isn't to justify what they've done, obviously, but they don't really have any other options to achieve their goals. 

[Ewanandmoreagain]

3 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

This is a ridiculous poll.  Far too complex an issue for such a reductive, binary choice.

Sick as well

[Trogdor]

I'm on the side of innocent civilians. I don't see that option in the poll.

[Ewanandmoreagain]

42 minutes ago, Richey Edwards said:

I don't know what HAMAS hoped to achieve, unless the whole idea was to get as many people as possible killed. I'm no expert on military tactics, but I think it was a monumentally stupid and futile thing to do.

For the record, I believe that everyone in every nation has the right to live their lives free from the horrors of war - and free from the threat of their homes being obliterated by bombs.

I support a peaceful resolution, and not yet more needless death and destruction in this endless cycle. A naive hope to have, because there's probably no chance of it ever happening.

However, violence is not the solution. It never was. Unfortunately, violence comes easier than dialogue for some people. 

Is has been said the actions of Hamas were in response to the news that Israel and Saudi Arabia are going to sign / have signed a " non aggression , whatever " treaty and other Arab countries were going to follow

" turning their backs " on the Palestinians.

Ordinary Palestinians suffer at the hands of their leaders eg allies with the wrong side in world war 2 , although siding with the " right " side in WW1 did not help them much

and during WW1 the U.K. produced the Balfour declaration which was a disaster !

[welshbairn]

38 minutes ago, jagfox said:

To what end though? They'll be retaken by now and they lost 1500 fighters going by reports?

Probably to provoke a genocidal Israeli response, kicking off a global Jihad leading to a peaceful Caliphate where everyone runs around fertile fields picking daisies. 

[btb]

1 hour ago, Richey Edwards said:

I don't know what HAMAS hoped to achieve, unless the whole idea was to get as many people as possible killed. I'm no expert on military tactics, but I think it was a monumentally stupid and futile thing to do.

For the record, I believe that everyone in every nation has the right to live their lives free from the horrors of war - and free from the threat of their homes being obliterated by bombs.

I support a peaceful resolution, and not yet more needless death and destruction in this endless cycle. A naive hope to have, because there's probably no chance of it ever happening.

However, violence is not the solution. It never was. Unfortunately, violence comes easier than dialogue for some people. 

Their aim of Hamas eruptions has always been to provoke Israel into a massive overreaction and turn them into a pariah state.

Unfortunately for the Palestinians as others have mentioned with Israel being a client state of the USA realpolitik  makes this unlikely to be fruitful.

 

 

Edited October 11, 2023 by btb

[Buzz Killington]

I'm not sure how to vote in a poll where one of the options isn't John Hughes.

[Richey Edwards]

3 minutes ago, Buzz Killington said:

I'm not sure how to vote in a poll where one of the options isn't John Hughes.

Which side are guid honest laddies?

[Fullerene]

After the Holocaust, with so many dead, it was understandable that the world might want to give the Jews a homeland of their own.

Unfortunately the area chosen was already somebody else's home.

The combined population of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip is comparable to that of Scotland and there are more than a million Palestinians in Israel itself.

That is a lot of displaced people and by all accounts they appear to be second-class citizens in the eyes of Israel.

Obviously the actions of Hamas should be condemned but what does Israel propose to allow ordinary Palestinians to have the same quality of life that they think Israelis are entitled to?

[Donathan]

19 minutes ago, Fullerene said:

After the Holocaust, with so many dead, it was understandable that the world might want to give the Jews a homeland of their own.

Unfortunately the area chosen was already somebody else's home.

The combined population of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip is comparable to that of Scotland and there are more than a million Palestinians in Israel itself.

That is a lot of displaced people and by all accounts they appear to be second-class citizens in the eyes of Israel.

Obviously the actions of Hamas should be condemned but what does Israel propose to allow ordinary Palestinians to have the same quality of life that they think Israelis are entitled to?

You realise that the land originally belonged to the Jews? They were run out of town by Christians nearly 2,000 years ago who, it turn, we’re replaced by the Muslims.

 

It’s an incredibly complex issue but the area chosen wasn’t just plucked out of thin air. 
 

I don’t believe it’s possible for these two religions to coexist. There’s too much hatred towards the Jewish community for that to be the case. Jews have been so harshly persecuted throughout history that it’s the moral duty of the west to protect them and their right to settle in Israel. 

[welshbairn]

24 minutes ago, Donathan said:

You realise that the land originally belonged to the Jews?

I thought they were uninvited asylum seekers from Egypt? The origins are a bit hazy, and maybe not very relevant. 

[oneteaminglasgow]

30 minutes ago, Donathan said:

I don’t believe it’s possible for these two religions to coexist. There’s too much hatred towards the Jewish community for that to be the case.  

Can you clarify these two sentences for me, because it comes across like you’re suggesting the hatred is mostly one-way - which would be, you know, ludicrous given the open calls for ethnic cleansing we’ve seen from Israeli officials and supporters in recent days.