Monkey Tennis Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 1 minute ago, AndyDD said: Yes, you actually argued that the crucial win of the group, snatching victory from the jaws of defeat with two goals in 100 seconds within the last gasps of the game, wasn't, in fact, heroic. It most emphatically was, and remains so. The winner was even arguably a proper zero-to-hero moment, with one of the most unfancied members of the squad popping up to brilliantly finish off an exquisite move and make a lot of supporters in the stadium and watching on via TVs look silly for bemoaning the sub (not half as silly as you're making yourself look here, mind you). Possibly the best moment I've had in a stadium in my adult life. I don't think it was a heroic performance - I actually thought it was poor. No denying that the unlikely turnaround was brilliant though. Even if I concede a heroism of sorts there (and I wouldn't be proud of doing so), I'd still be struggling with "a campaign full of..." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DublinMagyar Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 Dear Monkey Tennis No! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewanandmoreagain Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 7 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said: Guys, guys, guys - you're missing the point. It's not a question of whether the campaign was heroic. It's a question of whether it was "full of absolute (sic) heroic performances" . Now , I'm struggling to see what was heroic about any of those against sides other than Spain or Norway. A certain collective heroism in not slipping up in any of them perhaps? But a campaign full of absolute(ly) heroic performances "? I think you'll all agree that that's a stretch. Heroic in not slipping up against " diddy " teams eg Cyprus away ?! Having said that winning away to Georgia will definitely be heroic ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScarf Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 We were very average against Cyprus at home in the first game. In the section I was in a lot of folk seemed quite bored. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 1 minute ago, Ewanandmoreagain said: Heroic in not slipping up against " diddy " teams eg Cyprus away ?! Yes, but that's a collective thing over a few games. The actual performance in Cyprus itself was good, but was it "heroic"? If so, I'm afraid the word has been hideously devalued. I can't live with that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, TheScarf said: We were very average against Cyprus at home in the first game. In the section I was in a lot of folk seemed quite bored. How dare you!!!! You self loathing fucking c**t!! Am I doing it right? I'm trying to get some greenies to offset the red. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said: How dare you!!!! You self loathing fucking c**t!! That's the spirit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyDD Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said: I don't think it was a heroic performance - I actually thought it was poor. No denying that the unlikely turnaround was brilliant though. Even if I concede a heroism of sorts there (and I wouldn't be proud of doing so), I'd still be struggling with "a campaign full of..." Given the pant wetting going into the group and the game itself about Haaland, the fact they kept him really rather quiet and he only scored from a penalty would suggest that side of the performance wasn't poor at all. The defensive, off the ball side of the performance wasn't poor, from my recollection. I didn't feel under any real threat prior to the penalty and thought we ought to have made more of some first half forays (a few good blocks and Dykes being on his heels for a Robertson cross stick in the mind). The result itself, though, and the manner of it, surely places that firmly in the heroic category, even for you. Winning football matches is more than just possession domination, chances created etc, especially away internationals to your chief opponent in the group. Went a goal down, kept the mentality, kept belief, and turned it around at the death with sheer determination for the equaliser and then an excellent, excellent goal to win it. That's heroic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 17 minutes ago, AndyDD said: Yes, you actually argued that the crucial win of the group, snatching victory from the jaws of defeat with two goals in 100 seconds within the last gasps of the game, wasn't, in fact, heroic. It most emphatically was, and remains so. The winner was even arguably a proper zero-to-hero moment, with one of the most unfancied members of the squad popping up to brilliantly finish off an exquisite move and make a lot of supporters in the stadium and watching on via TVs look silly for bemoaning the sub (not half as silly as you're making yourself look here, mind you). Barring something else even more spectacular (positive or negative), that moment is what is going to define Kenny McLean's entire career. In 40 or 50 years people will still remember him for that goal. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 Heroism from Kenny McLean - yes. Even a heroic couple of minutes from the team - yes, I suppose so if you get such things. A heroic Scotland performance on the night though - no I'm not having that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paranoid android Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 I'm actually gutted that we're no longer top of the group, which is probably a bit of a fucking cheek, given that we're in a group with Spain and Norway. Credit to Stevie Clarke and the boys. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyDD Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 23 minutes ago, craigkillie said: Barring something else even more spectacular (positive or negative), that moment is what is going to define Kenny McLean's entire career. In 40 or 50 years people will still remember him for that goal. Aye, definitely. I didn't think he'd top his two penalties in the playoff shoot-outs, but he blew them out the water with that goal. A seminal moment (you can say that again, etc etc) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 I'll tell you what's poor, poor is going to Norway and losing 4-0. Seen that happen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Twelve Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 1 hour ago, AndyDD said: Possibly the best moment I've had in a stadium in my adult life. It's the best moment I've had in a pub in my life and I once danced in the pub to Teenage Kicks with Justine from Elastica. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eez-eh Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 Folk will pile on because he’s a history of being a negative nelly but @Monkey Tennis is right by saying they weren’t all heroic performances. They were all extremely satisfying for the most part though and night and day from what we’d seen over the past 20 years. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 I think when the draw was made almost everyone seemed pretty optimistic, it was a kind draw. Georgia and Cyprus have never and will never qualify for anything and Norway haven't qualified for anything since 2000. Most Scotland fans and indeed neutrals would have fancied us to finish second, and we will finish second, good. Not sure if that counts as spectacular or not, I'd save adjectives like that for us actually making an impact at major tournament. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, Lex said: I think when the draw was made almost everyone seemed pretty optimistic, it was a kind draw. Georgia and Cyprus have never and will never qualify for anything and Norway haven't qualified for anything since 2000. Most Scotland fans and indeed neutrals would have fancied us to finish second, and we will finish second, good. Not sure if that counts as spectacular or not, I'd save adjectives like that for us actually making an impact at major tournament. Then you're clearly nothing but a fool who sucks the joy out of everything etc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Twelve Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 Although there may be more apposite terms, I don't think it's unreasonable to describe the qualification as a whole as being heroic - we've breezed easily through a qualifying campaign for the first time in our entire footballing history after all. But the team perfomance at home to Spain and the cameo by the Mayor of Norwich against Norway are the only performances that I think really deserve the description, so I'm with MT on that, joyless doomsayer though he may be. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eez-eh Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 40 minutes ago, Lex said: I think when the draw was made almost everyone seemed pretty optimistic, it was a kind draw. Georgia and Cyprus have never and will never qualify for anything and Norway haven't qualified for anything since 2000. Most Scotland fans and indeed neutrals would have fancied us to finish second, and we will finish second, good. Not sure if that counts as spectacular or not, I'd save adjectives like that for us actually making an impact at major tournament. None of this happened. Most folk were unhappy with Norway from Pot 3. And looking back at the pots they were definitely one of the strongest looking teams in their pot at the time, as were Spain. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkoRaj Posted October 17, 2023 Share Posted October 17, 2023 1 hour ago, Lex said: I think when the draw was made almost everyone seemed pretty optimistic, it was a kind draw. Georgia and Cyprus have never and will never qualify for anything and Norway haven't qualified for anything since 2000. Most Scotland fans and indeed neutrals would have fancied us to finish second, and we will finish second, good. Not sure if that counts as spectacular or not, I'd save adjectives like that for us actually making an impact at major tournament. Georgia will most likely qualify for this tournament Wouldn't bet against Norway joining them No one said it was a kind draw. Norway were the clear best 3rd side, Georgia the clear best 4th 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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