Who’s on the plane?

[Skyline Drifter]

18 minutes ago, JS_FFC said:

At the moment we have Ralston, Taylor, Souttar, Jack, McGregor and McTominay playing domestic cup finals the week before the Gibraltar game. Norwich (Gunn, Hanley and McLean), Southampton (Adams, Armstrong, Fraser) and Leeds (Cooper) are all in playoff spots at the moment.

The 2nd CB would be whoever out of Hanley/Cooper isn’t in the playoff final

Injuries could obviously impact Leeds between now and then of course but Cooper's not playing for them anyway. And Southampton have already ruled Armstrong out for the rest of the domestic season. Ralston's fairly unlikely to actively feature in the Cup Final for Celtic either.

I take your point though. None of those players will be available for early join up.

[2426255]

49 minutes ago, JS_FFC said:

Clarke and the sports science guys will know better than me which players will benefit from a kick about with some fishermen in potentially seering heat and which will benefit from a rest but I can’t imagine many of those who played on the last weekend in May will be risked. Instead, I see that game as an opportunity for those who last played on the 18th/19th to keep fresh, whereas the Finland game will probably see us move towards a tournament XI of sorts.

 

I think the final squad will probably be announced on the day after the Gibraltar game.

I can see logic in that idea. Wouldn't object to Gibraltar being a bounce game personally and would explain why we took that as a game in the first place.

Maybe if we weren't opening the tournament we'd have 3 friendlies like I think other teams have arranged (Portugal, Ukraine).

[craigkillie]

1 hour ago, JS_FFC said:

I read somewhere online last week that he’s expected to announce a “long list” in mid May. Putting two and two together, the final squad would need to be some time after that.

I saw this on the Sky Sports website (I think), but it looked like it was just a copy and paste job from the England squad information and not necessarily actually the case.

[Quentin Taranbino]

A long list makes sense whether it's released publicly or an internal players thing.

There will be a bunch of fringe guys in key positions - McCrorie, Conway, Nisbet etc where their season will be over but Clarke will want them to keep in match shape in case they are called up for last minute injuries or whatever 

[Pie Of The Month]

L'Equipe reporting the UEFA committee voted narrowly in favour of 26 man squads and it now goes to the executive committee to decide.

 

https://twitter.com/lequipe/status/1782436092987212207

 

Edited April 22 by Pie Of The Month

[GTG_03]

1 hour ago, Pie Of The Month said:

L'Equipe reporting the UEFA committee voted narrowly in favour of 26 man squads and it now goes to the executive committee to decide.

 

https://twitter.com/lequipe/status/1782436092987212207

 

I hope it gets rejected tbh. It benefits the larger nations more as they'll have much stronger squad depth. I'm fully expecting it to get approved because of this.

[gannonball]

8 minutes ago, GTG_03 said:

I hope it gets rejected tbh. It benefits the larger nations more as they'll have much stronger squad depth. I'm fully expecting it to get approved because of this.

This. Same goes for the extra sub rule I have no idea why teams voted to keep it in our top league and I say this as a team clearly benefitting from it.

[JS_FFC]

1 hour ago, gannonball said:

This. Same goes for the extra sub rule I have no idea why teams voted to keep it in our top league and I say this as a team clearly benefitting from it.

The 5th sub rule is no longer an optional thing. It’s been added to the laws of the game. 

[craigkillie]

It's still optional, the competition rules can vary from it if they wish, it's just "up to a maximum of five". In terms of the squad size, I don't see it as a bad thing for us, it definitely gives Clarke some more options and also the possibility of giving our injured guys a bit more of a chance.

[Lurkst]

3 hours ago, GTG_03 said:

I hope it gets rejected tbh. It benefits the larger nations more as they'll have much stronger squad depth. I'm fully expecting it to get approved because of this.

Will be a real benefit to larger nations in the later stages so shouldn't really disadvantage Scotland.

Selfishly it might be good for us if Germany can refresh their team with strength in depth for the games against Hungary and Switzerland.

 

[Distant Doonhamer]

16 hours ago, Pie Of The Month said:

L'Equipe reporting the UEFA committee voted narrowly in favour of 26 man squads and it now goes to the executive committee to decide.

 

https://twitter.com/lequipe/status/1782436092987212207

 

BBC reporting that executive committee will ratify the decision. 

[2426255]

11 hours ago, Lurkst said:

Will be a real benefit to larger nations in the later stages so shouldn't really disadvantage Scotland.

Selfishly it might be good for us if Germany can refresh their team with strength in depth for the games against Hungary and Switzerland.

 

From an overall fairness point of view it's of more benefit to the bigger nations, but I agree from a selfish Scotland perspective it's not necessarily a disadvantage for this tournament - I think it's something that can help us.

If any of our players are fitness doubts ahead of the tournament then it gives us room to take a gamble. There's a number of our players that could be classed in that bracket (Hickey, Armstrong, Hanley, Gilmour as well as Jack, Brown or Nisbet). That for me is probably the best thing about an increase in squad number, just from a Scotland perspective rather than looking at it from an overall fairness standpoint.  

Overall, I'm not too bothered what is decided personally.

Edited April 23 by 2426255

[Lurkst]

27 minutes ago, Distant Doonhamer said:

BBC reporting that executive committee will ratify the decision. 

I think with potentially 6 (or even 7!) subs per game now, having a squad of only 20 outfield players is probably too small for a tournament where you might be playing 7 times.

 

Edited April 23 by Lurkst

[HuttonDressedAsLahm]

1 hour ago, Lurkst said:

I think with potentially 6 (or even 7!) subs per game now, having a squad of only 20 outfield players is probably too small for a tournament where you might be playing 7 times.

 

The maximum number of potential subs in a group game is actually wildly 9, and in the knockout stages is 10.

5 standard subs

2 concussion subs (your players)

2 concussion subs (awarded if the opposition uses theirs)

1 additional sub in extra time

Stoppages allowed remain at 3 during game time, but unlimited in HT/FT/HT in ET.  An additional stoppage granted for a concussion sub cannot be used to replace or add to the maximum of 3 stoppages allowed for normal subs.

Edit: 4th stoppage allowed in ET

Edited April 23 by HuttonDressedAsLahm

[2426255]

10 minutes ago, HuttonDressedAsLahm said:

The maximum number of potential subs in a group game is actually wildly 9, and in the knockout stages is 10.

5 standard subs

2 concussion subs (your players)

2 concussion subs (awarded if the opposition uses theirs)

1 additional sub in extra time

Stoppages allowed remain at 3 during game time, but unlimited in HT/FT/HT in ET.  An additional stoppage granted for a concussion sub cannot be used to replace or add to the maximum of 3 stoppages allowed for normal subs.

Are you not double counting the concussion subs?

[HuttonDressedAsLahm]

9 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

Are you not double counting the concussion subs?

No.  Each team has 2 concussion subs, but also receives one if the other team uses theirs. 

It's Protocol B that's being used in most competitions.  Protocol A has one concussion sub, with no complementary sub for the opposing team.

It's boring, but the detail is here: https://www.theifab.com/trials/concussion-substitutes/#:~:text=Use of a “concussion substitute,longer for a serious injury).

Edit: To my knowledge, there have been examples of teams choosing not to use their concussion sub (and instead using a normal allocated sub) in order to prevent giving the opposition a 6th sub.

You can easily imagine why some teams would choose to use that.

Edited April 23 by HuttonDressedAsLahm

[Lurkst]

26 minutes ago, HuttonDressedAsLahm said:

The maximum number of potential subs in a group game is actually wildly 9, and in the knockout stages is 10.

5 standard subs

2 concussion subs (your players)

2 concussion subs (awarded if the opposition uses theirs)

1 additional sub in extra time

Stoppages allowed remain at 3 during game time, but unlimited in HT/FT/HT in ET.  An additional stoppage granted for a concussion sub cannot be used to replace or add to the maximum of 3 stoppages allowed for normal subs.

Cheers, I had assumed only one concussion sub (and forgot that the opposition could earn you more too).

 

[Skyline Drifter]

On 22/04/2024 at 10:01, Skyline Drifter said:

If it's 23 for June and picked today (on the assumption Hickey, Hanley and Armstrong make it but Patterson and Ferguson do not) then:

Gunn, Clark and probably Kelly
Robertson, Tierney, Hickey, Ralston, Hanley, Hendry, Porteous, McKenna, Cooper
McGregor, Gilmour, McGinn, McTominay, McLean, Christie, Armstrong
Dykes, Adams, Shankland

Which is 22. One more from Souttar, Taylor, McCrorie (Ross), Johnston, Jack, Brown, Nisbet, Conway

If Gordon plays 3 or 4 of Hearts remaining games and plays ok then he displaces Kelly.
Possible Souttar is preferred to Cooper, that's a coin flip.

Armstrong not making it opens the door for a question about Fraser, Gauld, Cairney, etc but it will most likely be Jack or Brown unless both are also not fit.

26 man squad opens up the possibility of more adventurous picks but I guess it's likely to just mean three more from the list above.

So with media reporting that a change to 26 man squads is to be rubber stamped this week I thought it worth looking at where we are on this now. For purposes I've assumed only Lewis Ferguson is formally ruled out at this point. I accept Nathan Patterson is probably a long shot though:

Certain Picks (unless injured before then)
Angus Gunn, Zander Clark, Andy Robertson, Kieran Tierney, Ryan Porteous, Jack Hendry, Scott McKenna, John McGinn, Calum McGregor, Scott McTominay, Kenny McLean, Ryan Christie, Lyndon Dykes, Che Adams, Lawrence Shankland
(15)

Currently Injured but Certain Picks if fit
Billy Gilmour, Aaron Hickey, Grant Hanley, Stuart Armstrong, Nathan Patterson
(5)

Near Certain to Now Go due to Doubts over Others
Anthony Ralston
(1)

Candidates for the Remaining Spots
Craig Gordon, Liam Kelly
Liam Cooper, John Souttar, Greg Taylor, Ross McCrorie, Max Johnston
Ryan Jack, Ryan Fraser, Tom Cairney, Ryan Gauld
Jacob Brown, Kevin Nisbet, Tommy Conway

I've put in italics the ones I think will end up picked in a 26 man squad if everyone makes it. In the likely event of Patterson not doing so, I think McCrorie comes in as a straight switch.

I've said often enough that Gordon needs to play regular football for Hearts over the last month to get in. There are signs he's going to do so, but if he doesn't play again I think Kelly goes. I suppose in a 26 man squad he could take 4 keepers but if he does that it's pure sentimentality. There's no football reason to take 4 keepers.

Obviously there are also doubts about Jack and Brown at this point and they may end up ruled out also. Fraser, Cairney, Gauld and Conway are of course just based on musings on here rather than any particular recent evidence but Fraser's the most likely of them I assume. There are further left field shouts recently such as Lewis Morgan, Josh Doig, Danny Armstrong, etc who I think are even further out of the picture.

Given the lack of obvious clear candidates to take the extra three spots, I do think he's more likely to take a gamble on the likes of Hickey and Armstrong, or even Patterson. God alone knows what happens if the Currently injured 4 AND Jack and Brown don't make it! Or others get injured. We'd need 6 other players from somewhere. Guys who haven't been involved in the last 3 or 4 years or future stars from the 21s will end up called up.

Edited April 24 by Skyline Drifter

[gannonball]

This 26 man stuff is pish, Mutumbo could creep in at this rate.

[2426255]

14 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

So with media reporting that a change to 26 man squads is to be rubber stamped this week I thought it worth looking at where we are on this now. For purposes I've assumed only Lewis Ferguson is formally ruled out at this point. I accept Nathan Patterson is probably a long shot though:

Certain Picks (unless injured before then)
Angus Gunn, Zander Clark, Andy Robertson, Kieran Tierney, Ryan Porteous, Jack Hendry, Scott McKenna, John McGinn, Calum McGregor, Scott McTominay, Kenny McLean, Ryan Christie, Lyndon Dykes, Che Adams, Lawrence Shankland
(15)

Currently Injured but Certain Picks if fit
Aaron Hickey, Grant Hanley, Stuart Armstrong, Nathan Patterson
(4)

Near Certain to Now Go due to Doubts over Others
Anthony Ralston
(1)

Candidates for the Remaining Spots
Craig Gordon, Liam Kelly
Liam Cooper, John Souttar, Greg Taylor, Ross McCrorie, Max Johnston
Ryan Jack, Ryan Fraser, Tom Cairney, Ryan Gauld
Jacob Brown, Kevin Nisbet, Tommy Conway

I've put in italics the ones I think will end up picked in a 26 man squad if everyone makes it. In the likely event of Patterson not doing so, I think McCrorie comes in as a straight switch.

I've said often enough that Gordon needs to play regular football for Hearts over the last month to get in. There are signs he's going to do so, but if he doesn't play again I think Kelly goes. I suppose in a 26 man squad he could take 4 keepers but if he does that it's pure sentimentality. There's no football reason to take 4 keepers.

Obviously there are also doubts about Jack and Brown at this point and they may end up ruled out also. Fraser, Cairney, Gauld and Conway are of course just based on musings on here rather than any particular recent evidence but Fraser's the most likely of them I assume. There are further left field shouts recently such as Lewis Morgan, Josh Doig, Danny Armstrong, etc who I think are even further out of the picture.

Given the lack of obvious clear candidates to take the extra three spots, I do think he's more likely to take a gamble on the likes of Hickey and Armstrong, or even Patterson. God alone knows what happens if the Currently injured 4 AND Jack and Brown don't make it! Or others get injured. We'd need 6 other players from somewhere. Guys who haven't been involved in the last 3 or 4 years or future stars from the 21s will end up called up.

I think you've missed out Billy Gilmour who maybe fits best under 'Currently Injured but Certain Picks if fit'.