Who’s on the plane?

[2426255]

A midfielder in a back-3 would depend on the game for me.

• Spain v Scotland was a game it wouldn't have been helpful because we were mostly firing the ball over their press. France v Scotland it would also have been quite high risk having McLean defending 1v1's against Dembele.
• Scotland v Cyprus or similar probably isn't necessary. Maybe could break a press with a back-4 and play more attacking players.
• Georgia v Scotland and Scotland v Norway would potentially be better candidates for it as it would give you an extra man at the back to help defend and help in build up. Also perhaps if we are losing 1-nil against Germany it might be a happy medium where we could take more of a risk to get back in the game, while not going to a 4atb.

I don't see McLean as an outside centre-back as a one size fits all solution, but more if the situation fits it could be useful for us. The other thing to consider is build up seems to be a bit of a numbers game. I think Jesse Marsch was saying last night on MNF that you want one more player in buildup than in the opposition press, something I've heard before elsewhere.

Going forward we want to be able to control games better with the ball, which is why I could see that happening with McLean.

[craigkillie]

5 hours ago, Alan Twelve said:

McKenna's place is safe if he's fit. He played the full game against Man City in the Chumps League last week, and he played the full 90 in Copenhagen's game at the weekend (a 3-0 win), so it looks like they consider him a first pick at CB.

I don't think any of the central defence positions beyond Tierney, Hendry and Porteous are safe. I'd definitely agree that right now McKenna is likely in pole position, and Hanley is probably next in line, but I don't think there's much between them and Souttar or Cooper. Cooper is probably at this stage the least likely, but he does seem to be an important member of the squad - his influence in the Norway away matched was mentioned several times by teammates, for example.

[PSJ.84]

 

[Skyline Drifter]

On 17/02/2024 at 11:01, craigkillie said:

Clark actually playing against Georgia and Norway (and conceding 5 goals) probably actually slightly lowered his chances of going. I think he'd be close to a nailed on certainty if he hadn't played those games, but the performances surely have to put at least some doubt in Clarke's mind.

I'm not sure I agree with that. He made a ricket of Norway's 3rd certainly but as ugly as some of the other goals we lost were, I'd not put the rest of them directly on him. As I said further up, it's not like Liam Kelly's not been doing that and worse in Motherwell's team this season and McCrorie's barely kicked a ball. Clark's not made many errors for Hearts and right now his club manager has him ahead of Craig Gordon.

I think Clark's pretty much certain to go now. If he gets another month in Hearts side then he can probably sit out the rest of the season and still go. I think he and Gunn are now a given. Kelly's place is the one under threat to Gordon if Clark's happy with the amount of football he plays. It will be interesting to see if he's back in the fold for the March friendlies and whether he takes 4 keepers for those. If Gordon's in and Kelly's not it's a pretty clear indication of where we're going with it. If Kelly's in and Gordon's not then Gordon's place is in real danger.

On 17/02/2024 at 20:38, Virtual Insanity said:

I don't think there is a serious question of Dykes not going, he could not kick a ball between now and June and I'd still expect Clarke to take him. I do think there's a discussion to be had about Shankland's place in the pecking order if he keeps this form up. His link up play is excellent (much better than Dykes) and his mobility is massively underrated. He's slow, but he's fit and covers a lot of ground. Our style of play doesn't overly rely on pace from anyone outside our wing backs. U

Not sure I agree with that either. Shankland's link up play is excellent but Dykes is under-rated also. Dykes is much more physical though, obviously taller and a good set piece defender. There's obviously a discussion to be had between the three of them if Shankland keeps up his scoring rate and Adams is on form also but I don't see Shankland as a likely starter on his own up top in the Scotland formation as it stands. He's a sub, or a second striker partner for one of the other two in the unlikely event Clarks wants to play with two up though I think that's unlikely in the actual finals.

34 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

I don't think any of the central defence positions beyond Tierney, Hendry and Porteous are safe. I'd definitely agree that right now McKenna is likely in pole position, and Hanley is probably next in line, but I don't think there's much between them and Souttar or Cooper. Cooper is probably at this stage the least likely, but he does seem to be an important member of the squad - his influence in the Norway away matched was mentioned several times by teammates, for example.

I'm not really seeing Porteous as absolutely safe either though certainly accept he's likely to go. He's been in and out of a Watford side recently which isn't playing terribly well.

That said, if McKenna plays out the season successfully at Copenhagen and Hanley proves his fitness and plays regularly at Norwich (where generally he's been in and out a bit so far as they ease him back in without over-committing him) then I'd be shocked if (injury allowing) all of them don't go. Souttar and Cooper will be outside looking in unfortunately.

[Hendricks]

Goodnight Vienna

 

 

[Virtual Insanity]

Now we'll never know for sure. 

[craigkillie]

Might propel Shankland into the reckoning now that the 3rd choice forward is out.

[Londonwell]

Shankland to lose out to Harvey Barnes imo. 

[2426255]

That's a shame. Jacob Brown's in the same place as Nisbet now - out for the foreseeable. Still 3-months before the Euro's squad announcement so you never know.

It's a shame as far as the question between Brown and Lawrence Shankland, which would have been interesting to see play out. Good luck to Shankland, he seems to be in pole position now to take a place at the tournament, couldn't ask for a better chance really. It remains to be seen if Harvey Barnes is interested or not.

I wouldn't begrudge Shankland a chance to play at the Euro-2024 for Scotland. He's a good player and it will be fascinating to see how he does. It will help us find out what his level is, so looking forward to seeing that if it's what happens. 

[2426255]

19 hours ago, 2426255 said:

The other thing to consider is build up seems to be a bit of a numbers game. I think Jesse Marsch was saying last night on MNF that you want one more player in buildup than in the opposition press, something I've heard before elsewhere.

Georgia v Scotland. Start of the 2nd half - you can see the difference in build up when we have an extra man.

https://streamable.com/ppevp1

First clip is 7v7, Patterson and Taylor are easy passes. Zander Clark is also free, but not involved. In the second clip, Chakvetadze drops off McGregor creating a 2v3 in Scotland's favour. Scotland exploit it and score.

In the first clip it may have helped us break the press if we had a third centre-back in that situation such as Kenny McLean to generate a numerical advantage. 

Edited February 21 by 2426255

[HoBNob]

On 17/02/2024 at 11:23, 2426255 said:

Fans can have a discussion. It won't make a difference to Euro-2024. Lyndon Dykes is past having to prove himself at club level in Steve Clarke's eyes to justify selection. As long as he performs for Scotland, he'll remain a key member and be on the plane.

Steve Clarke has addressed questions around "goal-scoring form" previously.

  Reveal hidden contents

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/12017/13035632/scotland-steve-clarke-discusses-euro-2024-qualification-scott-mctominay-squad-selection-dilemas-for-germany

Do fans believe we can maintain the goal-scoring return from midfield  while increasing the output from our strikers? Creating more chances for Dykes and Adams will result in less chances for McGinn and McTominay. Dykes isn't wasteful with chances, he simply doesn't get many chances to score.

When Dykes plays we are going to see a less aesthetic, more direct game. If we are looking to play more football then Adams tends to start. Craig Gordon talked about this on Viaplay ahead of Cyprus v Scotland. 

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Given the level of competition at the Euro's we will need that sort of option. I can't think of anyone that would do that job better than him. He's a great team member with a great attitude. For me, any discussion will always return us to this point for the foreseeable future.

Hear me out here, I'm quite aware that Dykes will be on the plane, I get it. I even said that in the post you quoted. 

I'm just saying that if we're having discussions about striker, for me a big one is about whether Dykes does make us a better team, and for me he doesn't anymore, and hasn't for a while. You say about increasing the output for the strikers would impact the output from our midfielders, I'd argue that the best way to get the best out our best players (our midfield) isn't for us to shell balls over there head in the hope McGinn or McTominay pick up second balls from Dykes. 

If Dykes was this fantastic link man, terrorising defences and making there life a hell surely there'd be some talk of him moving up from relegation threatened QPR? I just don't think he's that good. 

I'd legitimately far rather have Shankland up front, from what I've seen his link up play and ability to lead the line has been fantastic, would Hearts be trading him for Dykes? I don't think so. 

[2426255]

20 hours ago, HoBNob said:

Hear me out here, I'm quite aware that Dykes will be on the plane, I get it. I even said that in the post you quoted. 

I'm just saying that if we're having discussions about striker, for me a big one is about whether Dykes does make us a better team, and for me he doesn't anymore, and hasn't for a while. You say about increasing the output for the strikers would impact the output from our midfielders, I'd argue that the best way to get the best out our best players (our midfield) isn't for us to shell balls over there head in the hope McGinn or McTominay pick up second balls from Dykes. 

If Dykes was this fantastic link man, terrorising defences and making there life a hell surely there'd be some talk of him moving up from relegation threatened QPR? I just don't think he's that good. 

I'd legitimately far rather have Shankland up front, from what I've seen his link up play and ability to lead the line has been fantastic, would Hearts be trading him for Dykes? I don't think so. 

If, as looks quite likely at the moment, Lawrence Shankland get's selected for Euro-2024 then he'll have the chance to show us how good he can be for Scotland at a major tournament. He only played 27 minutes for Scotland in 2023 and that's not enough for me to form an opinion on.

I don't have anything against Lawrence Shankland, excellent player for Hearts no doubt - I liked his post-match interview from Georgia and I'm looking forward to seeing him step up to International level against Europe's best. If he gets decent game time then I'd be open to revisiting this discussion. It's all if's, but's and maybe's just now though so I'd rather wait and see.

Edited February 22 by 2426255

[Lyle Lanley]

Hickey out until early May. 
 

 

[Bing.McCrosby]

On 21/02/2024 at 16:45, HoBNob said:

Hear me out here, I'm quite aware that Dykes will be on the plane, I get it. I even said that in the post you quoted. 

I'm just saying that if we're having discussions about striker, for me a big one is about whether Dykes does make us a better team, and for me he doesn't anymore, and hasn't for a while. You say about increasing the output for the strikers would impact the output from our midfielders, I'd argue that the best way to get the best out our best players (our midfield) isn't for us to shell balls over there head in the hope McGinn or McTominay pick up second balls from Dykes. 

If Dykes was this fantastic link man, terrorising defences and making there life a hell surely there'd be some talk of him moving up from relegation threatened QPR? I just don't think he's that good. 

I'd legitimately far rather have Shankland up front, from what I've seen his link up play and ability to lead the line has been fantastic, would Hearts be trading him for Dykes? I don't think so. 

Pretty much it exactly, hes not very good. At international level he's done well at times. Nothing against the guy, he gives everything he has for Scotland. But hes just not got the ability needed for an international striker.

He will be in the squad, but thats where we need players coming thru just now.

[Skyline Drifter]

On 21/02/2024 at 16:45, HoBNob said:

If Dykes was this fantastic link man, terrorising defences and making there life a hell surely there'd be some talk of him moving up from relegation threatened QPR? I just don't think he's that good. 

 

In common with his club Lyndon certainly hasn't had a great season so far but prior to him signing his new contract in August there was certainly interest from bigger and better clubs than QPR, including from Vincent Kompany's Burnley and, allegedly anyway, Michael Beale's Rangers. Not sure who, if anyone, actually put in an offer for him but there was a bit of speculation. If QPR do end up going down I doubt he'll go with them, he'll get a move at that point, most likely within the Championship still.

Dykes will never be a big scorer. 10 - 15 goals a season at best is about his return, but he brings more than that.

[DiegoDiego]

59 minutes ago, Bing.McCrosby said:

But hes just not got the ability needed for an international striker.

He clearly does, otherwise he wouldn't have gathered so many many caps (and goals) for one of the world's better international sides.

[craigkillie]

Go and watch those two goals against Norway, or the whole 90 minutes against Spain at Hampden for that matter, and then come back again and tell me that Dykes offers nothing to this team.

Dykes, along with McGinn and Robertson is the heart and soul of this squad, he epitomises absolutely everything that Steve Clarke wants from his team. His attitude is exemplary, he leads from the front, he scores goals and he creates goals. It is no coincidence that McGinn and McTominay are filling their boots when he is leading the line for Scotland.

Is he a remotely good footballer? No, he's considerably worse than most of his teammates. Is he a good Scotland centre-forward? Absolutely, I'd argue he's probably in the top three this century.

[DiegoDiego]

1 minute ago, craigkillie said:

Is he a good Scotland centre-forward? Absolutely, I'd argue he's probably in the top three this century.

Scotland's third tallest dwarf found.

More seriously, you're spot on there. I'm hoping we'll find better than him, but I don't fear his name on the team sheet and he's definitely a more than the sum of his parts type player. Regardless of all that, I trust Steve Clarke as much as the players undoubtedly trust him.

[Skyline Drifter]

1 hour ago, craigkillie said:

I'd argue he's probably in the top three this century.

Controversial one there but maybe not daft in context. I'm related to him and I'm not sure I'd have gone that far! That said, when you think about it.......

To an extent there's a chicken and egg situation as no other centre forward has had goalscoring Premiership standard midfielders like McTominay and McGinn playing behind them. Given we've had a dearth of decent strikers its also damning with faint praise (or tallest dwarf (c) @DiegoDiego). I assume Kenny Miller is one you'd put ahead? Who else? Naismith? Gallacher? I assume you have him ahead of the likes of Boyd and Fletcher? And that you're not counting the likes of Hutchison and McFadden as forwards? 

Edited February 23 by Skyline Drifter

[Bing.McCrosby]

12 hours ago, DiegoDiego said:

He clearly does, otherwise he wouldn't have gathered so many many caps (and goals) for one of the world's better international sides.

Thats down to lack of credible opposition, rather than being a good international striker.