Willie Collum; good guy? complete dick? corrupt? / ..and should (Old Firm) clubs "have the power to ban him"?

[gannonball]

13 hours ago, bennett said:

 

Wasn't there also something about bigoted buses in Edinburgh?

 

 

 

Hearts fans need to leave the city somehow for games tbf.

[bennett]

16 minutes ago, LuboMoravcik said:

So do you.

 

celtic fans rushing to defend the sfa is proving his point for him.

[LuboMoravcik]

Just now, bennett said:

 

celtic fans rushing to defend the sfa is proving his point for him.

Who's defending the SFA?

[gannonball]

1 minute ago, LuboMoravcik said:

Who's defending the SFA?

Absolutely nobody  what an utter fantasist.

[bennett]

7 minutes ago, LuboMoravcik said:

Who's defending the SFA?

Deflecting and down playing is the same thing.

 

One team always benefits from these mistakes. 

[FK1Bairn]

5 minutes ago, bennett said:

Deflecting and down playing is the same thing.

 

One team always benefits from these mistakes. 

And Rangers have never benefitted from a wrong refereeing decision? 

[LuboMoravcik]

6 minutes ago, bennett said:

Deflecting and down playing is the same thing.

 

One team always benefits from these mistakes. 

Rangers?

[bennett]

7 minutes ago, FK1Bairn said:

And Rangers have never benefitted from a wrong refereeing decision? 

The key word that you missed is always.

[AussieBud]

The strange thing about all this Collum thing and rangers not wanting him again is that, he was once the guy who gave rangers a penalty when his back was turned to the incident, no sure they were rushing to slaughter him then, grow the f**k up and move on, or better still, move to England and give them your issues

[Neilstonbud]

I havent posted on this forum for a number of years as I find most of the comments either biased towards the posters team or just down right stupid. I still read a lot of the forum and have been tempted to post a few times since the introduction of VAR.

For Rangers to act the way they have done shows a complete lack of decorum on their part. Willie Collum is one of the most inept referees I have seen but to say he is biased is just plain ridiculous. 

If you want to find a biased ref in Scotland you do not need to look any further than mister  Andrew Dallas. Awarded 4 penalties in one game which independent referees from outside Scotland deemed were all incorrect calls. I dont remember any calls from St.Mirren to ban Dallas from refing any of our remaining games ( although a lot of our fans were certainly of that opinion). 

Rangers (and Celtic) get more decisions from refs than the rest of the teams and the sad thing is that neither of their supporters see the irony in this moaning about ref standards. 

[HeartsOfficialMoaner]

The quicker we can ban ref's the quicker we can get foreign ones.

[AJF]

I hope any further discourse between the club and SFA is handled privately now.

There can be no genuine belief that a penalty would’ve been awarded, only an issue regarding the process followed.

I’ve seen it explained that the on-field ref must’ve missed the handball because if he had seen it, then the on-field decision could only have been either a penalty or a corner. Instead, a goal kick was awarded so it’s evident they didn’t see the handball. In this instance I believe they should’ve been advised that they have missed a possible handball and referred to the monitor by the VAR if there was no offence in the APP.

As it has been established there was no offside check in the VAR review, there has evidently been a failure to follow the correct process, but we have not been disadvantaged by this.

So yeah, I think the only complaint that could be made is regarding the decision to release the offside images after the fact despite no offside check having taken place during the review. The SFA, to their credit, have admitted as much and have confirmed they will review this process to try and avoid any ambiguity in future incidents.

[chris00]

17 minutes ago, HeartsOfficialMoaner said:

The quicker we can ban ref's the quicker we can get foreign ones.

And there of course, have never been any refereiing errors anywhere in the world apart from Scotland.

[bennett]

34 minutes ago, Neilstonbud said:

I havent posted on this forum for a number of years as I find most of the comments either biased towards the posters team or just down right stupid. I still read a lot of the forum and have been tempted to post a few times since the introduction of VAR.

For Rangers to act the way they have done shows a complete lack of decorum on their part. Willie Collum is one of the most inept referees I have seen but to say he is biased is just plain ridiculous. 

If you want to find a biased ref in Scotland you do not need to look any further than mister  Andrew Dallas. Awarded 4 penalties in one game which independent referees from outside Scotland deemed were all incorrect calls. I dont remember any calls from St.Mirren to ban Dallas from refing any of our remaining games ( although a lot of our fans were certainly of that opinion). 

Rangers (and Celtic) get more decisions from refs than the rest of the teams and the sad thing is that neither of their supporters see the irony in this moaning about ref standards. 

5 penalty calls in that game. 

 

3 were correctly given. 

1 was wrongly given

1 was wrongly not given.

 

St Mirrens poor defending was to blame.

 

 

[Dons_1988]

1 hour ago, AJF said:

I hope any further discourse between the club and SFA is handled privately now.

There can be no genuine belief that a penalty would’ve been awarded, only an issue regarding the process followed.

I’ve seen it explained that the on-field ref must’ve missed the handball because if he had seen it, then the on-field decision could only have been either a penalty or a corner. Instead, a goal kick was awarded so it’s evident they didn’t see the handball. In this instance I believe they should’ve been advised that they have missed a possible handball and referred to the monitor by the VAR if there was no offence in the APP.

As it has been established there was no offside check in the VAR review, there has evidently been a failure to follow the correct process, but we have not been disadvantaged by this.

So yeah, I think the only complaint that could be made is regarding the decision to release the offside images after the fact despite no offside check having taken place during the review. The SFA, to their credit, have admitted as much and have confirmed they will review this process to try and avoid any ambiguity in future incidents.

This was all obvious before st Mirren starting giving us a pasting a couple of hours later on. It’s absolutely wild that this is still being discussed. 

Other than the bit about explaining the offside. I don’t really see the issue with them providing additional info to clarify it would never have been a penalty. If it set off some absolute crackpots (supporters, manager and officials of rangers FC) then not really collums fault. 

[AJF]

37 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

This was all obvious before st Mirren starting giving us a pasting a couple of hours later on. It’s absolutely wild that this is still being discussed. 

Other than the bit about explaining the offside. I don’t really see the issue with them providing additional info to clarify it would never have been a penalty. If it set off some absolute crackpots (supporters, manager and officials of rangers FC) then not really collums fault. 

I’m not so sure. The fact that the SFA have admitted that they will be reviewing how they communicate these things in the future tells you they likely aren’t happy with how it went down.

I think, if I interpret it right, Collum never followed the correct process because he judged there to be no clear and obvious error. But from what I can see, as a goal kick was given, that meant the on-field ref never actually seen the handball (because if he did he would’ve awarded a corner kick) so the APP should’ve been reviewed at the time for the offside.

As the on-field ref never seen the potential offence they haven’t made a decision on it, either no foul or foul.

VAR is said to recommend a review if they believe there has been a clear and obvious error or if they believe a serious incident has been missed. I’d suggest that missing a potential handball would be considered a serious incident has been missed. So (again this is only the way I am interpreting the IFAB guidance which may well be wrong) it should’ve been one of two outcomes:

1) the potential penalty was ruled out due to offside after a review of the APP or

2) the on-field ref asked to review the incident on the monitor as they never seen the handball incident

Clearly option 1 is the correct answer due to the offside. That never happened which is why Rangers are trying to call into question Collum’s competence publicly, which they shouldn’t be IMO. But as you allude to, it leaves things open for people to suggest the offside review was only added after the fact to mask that the incorrect process was followed.

Ultimately it would never have been a penalty and it should never have got to this stage.

Edited January 6 by AJF

[Don exotic]

2 hours ago, bennett said:

The key word that you missed is always.

“Always” remember there is no longer a rangers, only a Sevco respawn. Both iterations however regularly benefited from dubious refereeing decisions, but their fans pretend not to notice.

[velo army]

17 hours ago, Jinky67 said:

He’s not been a RE teacher for many years. He’s some sort of continuous improvement officer for the council or something along those lines. My wife mentioned he’s in and out of the school she works at quite often. 

My old RE teacher was Brian Dempseys brother, needless to say he got a bit pestered by many non RE questions in the mid 90’s

Our high School chaplain was his other brother. Cool guy and honestly one of the most handsome men I think I'd ever seen. He looked like a matinee idol. 

[eez-eh]

I honestly think he’s not too bad these days. When he first came through he’d be stopping the game every 10 seconds and making himself the centre of attention. But last few times I’ve seen him ref Ayr games he’s generally been alright - let the game flow more and seems more approachable.

I think most people just haven’t moved on from the reputation he made for himself 10-15 years ago.

McLean is by far the worst of the “top level” refs in my experience.

Edited January 6 by eez-eh

[Dons_1988]

38 minutes ago, AJF said:

I’m not so sure. The fact that the SFA have admitted that they will be reviewing how they communicate these things in the future tells you they likely aren’t happy with how it went down.

I think, if I interpret it right, Collum never followed the correct process because he judged there to be no clear and obvious error. But from what I can see, as a goal kick was given, that meant the on-field ref never actually seen the handball (because if he did he would’ve awarded a corner kick) so the APP should’ve been reviewed at the time for the offside.

As the on-field ref never seen the potential offence they haven’t made a decision on it, either no foul or foul.

VAR is said to recommend a review if they believe there has been a clear and obvious error or if they believe a serious incident has been missed. I’d suggest that missing a potential handball would be considered a serious incident has been missed. So (again this is only the way I am interpreting the IFAB guidance which may well be wrong) it should’ve been one of two outcomes:

1) the potential penalty was ruled out due to offside after a review of the APP or

2) the on-field ref asked to review the incident on the monitor as they never seen the handball incident

Clearly option 1 is the correct answer due to the offside. That never happened which is why Rangers are trying to call into question Collum’s competence publicly, which they shouldn’t be IMO. But as you allude to, it leaves things open for people to suggest the offside review was only added after the fact to mask that the incorrect process was followed.

Ultimately it would never have been a penalty and it should never have got to this stage.

Aye, so collum missed the handball but it was offside anyway. Like I said, this was obvious very quickly. Honestly who cares?