Euro 2025

[lubo_blaha]

1 hour ago, BucksburnDandy said:

The last part is a good point. The South Irish women benefitted hugely from embracing a smaller stadium in Tallaght, building crowds there to the point where they began to sell out tickets and made womens games an event worth going to. Results improving on the pitch helped but so did the social experience that made more people want to go. Now they've played some games at the Aviva with impressive crowds because of their momentum and folk wanting to be part of the experience.

 

 

I don't think our womens players would ever accept going to a smaller ground again and in most regardsbI probably agree with them, but it may be a short term help to build crowds and a better matchday experience. If that comes and results improve, then they could return to Hampden. Being among a 6% full Hampden cannot be enjoyable at all.

 

We had this to some extent with St Mirren Park. The way SWNT were going though, they had outgrown all grounds in the country under 20k. They had a few games at the Edinburgh stadiums and then went to Hampden as a move to ensure parity with the men (and a cost saving exercise since the SFA had acquired it so no rental fee). 

I think there was an opportunity to grow into good five figure crowds and they did get this initially but failing to qualify for two tournaments and a dismal nations league campaign has seemingly removed any feel good factor and reduced interest. Moving to another ground may be a good option but it would be viewed as a backwards step at this stage.

[craigkillie]

It's a bit like the men's team, if they can stop being rubbish the crowds will come along.

[Bonksy+HisChristianParade]

5 hours ago, craigkillie said:

It's a bit like the men's team, if they can stop being rubbish the crowds will come along.

Scotland women are ranked above Ireland women. It’s not that simple. Something has gone badly wrong in the promotion of the women’s game in this country.

[craigkillie]

22 minutes ago, Bonksy+HisChristianParade said:

Scotland women are ranked above Ireland women. It’s not that simple. Something has gone badly wrong in the promotion of the women’s game in this country.

Ireland women beat us in the play-offs and went to the World Cup, and have then put together a winning Nations League campaign (albeit helped by being in a lower tier). That will have made a big difference.

If we hadn't bottled the last two qualifying campaigns I think our crowds would be massively higher.

[Bonksy+HisChristianParade]

21 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

Ireland women beat us in the play-offs and went to the World Cup, and have then put together a winning Nations League campaign (albeit helped by being in a lower tier). That will have made a big difference.

If we hadn't bottled the last two qualifying campaigns I think our crowds would be massively higher.

3,000 for a qualifier with thousands of free tickets handed out is very worrying though. The trains before kick off were incredibly quiet and there weren’t even stalls up selling merchandise. Just zero interest. The women’s game is generally growing in most countries and we seem to be going backwards.

[invergowrie arab]

2 hours ago, craigkillie said:

Ireland women beat us in the play-offs and went to the World Cup, and have then put together a winning Nations League campaign (albeit helped by being in a lower tier). That will have made a big difference.

If we hadn't bottled the last two qualifying campaigns I think our crowds would be massively higher.

Yeah, mens team success plus the women doing well really would have catapulted us forward. You could have been talking 20k anyway.

We didn't though and I have done a 180 on Hampden having thought the women must play there for parity of esteem with the men to now thinking its actually unhelpful. The atmosphere is grim. Its a terrible night out.

Think we need to go back to square 1 and make St Mirren Park or similar a busy fun night out and almost treat the women's team like a new club where you have to build a core support rather than cross fingers that u12 girls and auld TA das like me will naturally take an interest. 

The other thing about Ireland is they are miles ahead of Scotland in recognising women's place in team sports through the work of the GAA. 

The last ten years of community clubs in Scotland has been hugely positive though with clubs in every town fielding girls teams so there's a chance there if we can get the national team to do something.

[KirkieRR]

18 hours ago, Bonksy+HisChristianParade said:

there weren’t even stalls up selling merchandise

I saw at least three vendors but I doubt if they sold much.

 

The 'atmosphere' at women's internationals is never going to be comparable to the mens given the numbers of families, kids etc wherever you hold them (but there are also advantages that you have less chance of being seated next to some drunk bloke in a Glengarry who pees at his seat and then falls asleep for the rest of the match).

 

I think a temporary move to, say, St Mirren or Falkirk would be good, with a view to returning to Hampden when the crowds have built up. Some personal reflection within the Tartan Army might be warranted about why most never go near the women's team.

[GordonS]

8 hours ago, KirkieRR said:

I saw at least three vendors but I doubt if they sold much.

 

The 'atmosphere' at women's internationals is never going to be comparable to the mens given the numbers of families, kids etc wherever you hold them (but there are also advantages that you have less chance of being seated next to some drunk bloke in a Glengarry who pees at his seat and then falls asleep for the rest of the match).

 

I think a temporary move to, say, St Mirren or Falkirk would be good, with a view to returning to Hampden when the crowds have built up. Some personal reflection within the Tartan Army might be warranted about why most never go near the women's team.

The SFA should have learned from what the WSL clubs have been doing - playing at smaller home stadiums and taking occasional bigger matches to the club's main ground, with the number of those matches increasing as the support base sustains it. That's how Arsenal have got their average attendance up to 35,000 despite a lack of success on the pitch. They also do clever stuff like Emirates-only season tickets and early purchase discounts.

IMO we should be based between Firhill and one of the Edinburgh grounds - you always get the best crowds where the most people can walk or make a short bus or train journey - and take the bigger games to Hampden, creating more of a buzz around them. The aim would be over time to have more and more games at Hampden.

The SFA should also have learned from the SRU that making tickets free for season pass holders/ members for men's games is a mistake. It devalues them and leads to hundreds of tickets being taken and then not used.

Obviously the big crowds England gets are because of their successes, but also because of their branding, all the 'Lionesses' stuff. I think the huge mistake the SFA makes is trying to attract existing football-watching men to the women's games. The sad reality is that the vast majority of people in the UK who attend women's football games at all levels are female. At the England v Scotland game in Sunderland it was really noticeable in the crowds before and after the game that there was far more women than men, and excluding men on their own, I only saw two guys who weren't going to the game with women. I didn't see any other male-only groups, and after I first noticed it I was looking for them. The FA's marketing around the women's team is more aimed at women.

One weird thing is that the atmosphere at women's football internationals is much, much worse than women's rugby internationals, even allowing for ground sizes. I think the main difference is that female players go en masse to the rugby games, you see whole squads at a time in their club hats and training gear. They drink a lot of beer and make a lot of noise. The SFA works to get girls' clubs to Hampden, but not women's.

And your last point - I see a lot guys saying they don't watch women's football like it's a different form of football. They'll travel across the country for a tenth-tier men's game or follow an eye-bleedingly terrible Scottish club and then complain about the standard of women's internationals. I used to try to persuade them but my opinion now is that they're a lost cause and they'll never get past the sex of the players. The target audience is younger people and women.

[KirkieRR]

10 hours ago, GordonS said:

It devalues them and leads to hundreds of tickets being taken and then not used.

That's certainly true. Last couple of matches I've been at I should have been surrounded by people (going by the wee map on the ticket site), and I wasn't.

[Bonksy+HisChristianParade]

On 11/04/2024 at 17:11, KirkieRR said:

I saw at least three vendors but I doubt if they sold much.

 

The 'atmosphere' at women's internationals is never going to be comparable to the mens given the numbers of families, kids etc wherever you hold them (but there are also advantages that you have less chance of being seated next to some drunk bloke in a Glengarry who pees at his seat and then falls asleep for the rest of the match).

 

I think a temporary move to, say, St Mirren or Falkirk would be good, with a view to returning to Hampden when the crowds have built up. Some personal reflection within the Tartan Army might be warranted about why most never go near the women's team.

I don’t think the Tartan Army require any ‘personal reflection’ whatsoever. Supporters have absolutely no obligation to attend the matches of the women’s team. I want the Scotland women’s team to do well the same way I want the U21 or U19 teams to, but I have zero interest in actually going to any games. 

The FA have a duty to fund and promote the sport for everyone and should be aiming to grow the game for both women and men. ‘Tartan Army’ members do not. They are already typically attending club team games on top of international matches so why anyone should feel the need for ‘personal reflection’ for not attending even more matches is beyond me. Maybe more women could actually buy tickets to watch other women play?
 

 

[KirkieRR]

2 hours ago, Bonksy+HisChristianParade said:

I don’t think the Tartan Army require any ‘personal reflection’ whatsoever. Supporters have absolutely no obligation to attend the matches of the women’s team. I want the Scotland women’s team to do well the same way I want the U21 or U19 teams to, but I have zero interest in actually going to any games. 

The FA have a duty to fund and promote the sport for everyone and should be aiming to grow the game for both women and men. ‘Tartan Army’ members do not. They are already typically attending club team games on top of international matches so why anyone should feel the need for ‘personal reflection’ for not attending even more matches is beyond me. Maybe more women could actually buy tickets to watch other women play?
 

 

Seems to me you've just provided two paragraphs of admittedly slightly grumpy personal reflection on the matter...

[Big Ally]

On 12/04/2024 at 01:45, GordonS said:

The SFA should have learned from what the WSL clubs have been doing - playing at smaller home stadiums and taking occasional bigger matches to the club's main ground, with the number of those matches increasing as the support base sustains it. That's how Arsenal have got their average attendance up to 35,000 despite a lack of success on the pitch. They also do clever stuff like Emirates-only season tickets and early purchase discounts.

IMO we should be based between Firhill and one of the Edinburgh grounds - you always get the best crowds where the most people can walk or make a short bus or train journey - and take the bigger games to Hampden, creating more of a buzz around them. The aim would be over time to have more and more games at Hampden.

The SFA should also have learned from the SRU that making tickets free for season pass holders/ members for men's games is a mistake. It devalues them and leads to hundreds of tickets being taken and then not used.

Obviously the big crowds England gets are because of their successes, but also because of their branding, all the 'Lionesses' stuff. I think the huge mistake the SFA makes is trying to attract existing football-watching men to the women's games. The sad reality is that the vast majority of people in the UK who attend women's football games at all levels are female. At the England v Scotland game in Sunderland it was really noticeable in the crowds before and after the game that there was far more women than men, and excluding men on their own, I only saw two guys who weren't going to the game with women. I didn't see any other male-only groups, and after I first noticed it I was looking for them. The FA's marketing around the women's team is more aimed at women.

One weird thing is that the atmosphere at women's football internationals is much, much worse than women's rugby internationals, even allowing for ground sizes. I think the main difference is that female players go en masse to the rugby games, you see whole squads at a time in their club hats and training gear. They drink a lot of beer and make a lot of noise. The SFA works to get girls' clubs to Hampden, but not women's.

And your last point - I see a lot guys saying they don't watch women's football like it's a different form of football. They'll travel across the country for a tenth-tier men's game or follow an eye-bleedingly terrible Scottish club and then complain about the standard of women's internationals. I used to try to persuade them but my opinion now is that they're a lost cause and they'll never get past the sex of the players. The target audience is younger people and women.

Think you are overthinking the problems and solutions GordonS.

Its quite simple ,the team have been really boring to watch and the manager is hopeless. 
Until these two major issues are remedied ,unfortunately, very few supporters ,men AND women,will feel the urge to turn up at Hampden..

[GordonS]

2 hours ago, Big Ally said:

Think you are overthinking the problems and solutions GordonS.

Its quite simple ,the team have been really boring to watch and the manager is hopeless. 
Until these two major issues are remedied ,unfortunately, very few supporters ,men AND women,will feel the urge to turn up at Hampden..

Hardly anyone was going to watch them when they qualified for Euro 2017 and had peak Kim Little strutting about, and hardly any more were at the World Cup 2019 qualifiers. We're waaaay behind other European countries and attendances in our domestic league are comparatively bad too. Glasgow City have been making the last 16, last 8 in the Champions League in front of a few hundred and the OF can't even muster a few thousand when playing each other. There's more to it than just the national team playing bad football - how many do you think would be going if they were good to watch? 

[Big Ally]

21 hours ago, GordonS said:

Hardly anyone was going to watch them when they qualified for Euro 2017 and had peak Kim Little strutting about, and hardly any more were at the World Cup 2019 qualifiers. We're waaaay behind other European countries and attendances in our domestic league are comparatively bad too. Glasgow City have been making the last 16, last 8 in the Champions League in front of a few hundred and the OF can't even muster a few thousand when playing each other. There's more to it than just the national team playing bad football - how many do you think would be going if they were good to watch? 

In 2019 they were obviously better to watch than today , 18,500 turned up to watch them play a FRIENDLY against the mighty Jamaica .

[PossilYM]

On 10/04/2024 at 21:49, Bonksy+HisChristianParade said:

Scotland women are ranked above Ireland women. It’s not that simple. Something has gone badly wrong in the promotion of the women’s game in this country.

The promotion across the board is bizarre.

Look kids, do your apprenticeship in the freezing cold watching a lack lustre international team and whatever club team you fancy.

And then you can watch the real thing and leave the kiddie on fitba behind.

Hawd oan, here's auld Rose to clap ye on the heed out at Alloa.

Rose, the great heroine of Scottish Fitba that the authorities hated that much they banned her for making 2 bob out the game. Now she's feckin Flora Mcdonald.

Strange but true, wummin's fitba was once a summer sport in Scotland but they didn't tell anybody.

[GordonS]

8 minutes ago, Big Ally said:

In 2019 they were obviously better to watch than today , 18,500 turned up to watch them play a FRIENDLY against the mighty Jamaica .

Sure but that was a one-off, a big send-off for the World Cup and our first game at Hampden in a long time. Our previous home match was as glamorous as it gets, against the USA, and we got 3,790. The last competitive game, in the penultimate World Cup qualifier and a critical tie against Switzerland that we won, attracted only 4,098.

If we'd had a good World Cup instead of doing a Scotland I'm sure attendances would have been better immediately after, though. A lack of feelgood and then Covid have been very damaging. But there are underlying factors too.

Looking at the figures it's really bad. We got two 10ks in the World Cup play-offs, down to 7k in the first Nations League game and 5k in the second. We got 15k v England but in better circumstances I'm sure it would have been more than double - it should have beat our attendance record - and then just 3k in our first Euro qualifier. That's back to the crowds we were getting at Tynecastle.

As I say, underlying factors, but a good start would be sacking the managers.

[Craig fae the Vale]

A lot of it has to do with the manager. Pedro is failing in so many regards, and it seems the better players aren't playing for him.

I used to be a regular, but don't see myself at another game while he's in charge.

[KirkieRR]

Squad for the double-heider v the team from the nation we don't talk about, or something.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c72p2dr89mno

 

Where's Abi Harrison these days?

[Craig fae the Vale]

Tickets for the above mentioned game are only available to SSC Members and anyone who has bought for the last 4 women's internationals for some reason.

[KirkieRR]

I think they're trying to prevent arriviste Pro-Pal protestors.