The Strikers

[Ewanandmoreagain]

4 hours ago, eez-eh said:

As much as it was a bad miss, I thought Flekken did very well at coming out and making himself as big as possible.

Agreed !

[Caledonian1]

Just noticed the score in the match last night between New York Red Bulls and Inter Miami - no Messi but Miami had a trio of former Barca greats playing for them Alba, Busquets and Suarez.  Oh, there was a player who scored a hat-trick in the 4-0 win for NY...........very much the forgotten man of Scottish football - Lewis Morgan (5 goals in 5 games this season)  He has two caps from a few years back but he never seems to even get mentioned as a possible. I happen to believe the MLS is generally a higher standard than SPL (or whatever we call it these days) and the English Championship. Like Gauld he has done really well in the MLS but never gets a chance....perhaps that should change...

[tree house tam]

Here we go.........again.

[2426255]

[RandomGuy.]

15 hours ago, Caledonian1 said:

LI happen to believe the MLS is generally a higher standard than SPL

Based on what?

The bang average Scottish Premiership players who go over there and stroll it? Or the names of the 40yo former superstars earning their last paycheck?

[Skyline Drifter]

On 20/03/2024 at 13:28, Scary Bear said:

An interesting hypothesis.

As someone involved with kids football, I can reassure you that we still occasionally play on pretty muddy, bobbly, uneven pitches.

I had not considered that we are missing the peril of the red ash pitches, and this could be a reason for the lack of quality strikers.

 

I think a lot of that will depend on your geography. My son is playing kids football in D&G and we play on a grass pitch once or twice a season maybe. D&G is full of 3G pitches, Almost every club has access to one. There are four in Dumfries alone. Gretna, Annan, Dalbeattie, Lockerbie, Kirkcudbright and Stranraer all have one too.

I'm conscious there's not many in Dunbartonshire for instance. Not really sure about other areas?

That said, far from convinced the better quality pitches are why we're not producing strikers.

On 22/03/2024 at 22:13, Claudia Gentile said:

It was frustrating watching the principality last night and they seem to have a decent level of front players in Johnson, Wilson, Brooks and Moore. Also have James and Broadhead who can score and assist.

Do they though? That's a list of mostly attacking midfielders. Moore's an out and out forward largely playing at the same level as Dykes. He's more of a goalscorer  probably and a similar level of a handful. Adams has more games at a higher level than him though different kind of player.

Johnson's probably an attacker but he plays a wider role and hasn't really played through the middle for either Wales, Spurs or Forest. He's certainly a real talent, although Welsh by accident more than any clever development from the Welsh FA. I'd be delighted if Brennan Johnson was Scottish though not sure where he'd fit in our current system.

The rest of them are midfielders and not one of them I'd swap for McTominay, McGinn or Christie.

Edited March 25 by Skyline Drifter

[Claudia Gentile]

4 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

.

Do they though? That's a list of mostly attacking midfielders. Moore's an out and out forward largely playing at the same level as Dykes. He's more of a goalscorer  probably and a similar level of a handful. Adams has more games at a higher level than him though different kind of player.

Johnson's probably an attacker but he plays a wider role and hasn't really played through the middle for either Wales, Spurs or Forest. He's certainly a real talent, although Welsh by accident more than any clever development from the Welsh FA. I'd be delighted if Brennan Johnson was Scottish though not sure where he'd fit in our current system.

The rest of them are midfielders and not one of them I'd swap for McTominay, McGinn or Christie.

Broadhead and Moore are 9s. Brooks a 10 with Wilson mostly a right sided forward but vacancies play behind the forward too. Johnson is talented enough to play anywhere across the front 3 or in behind. James is more of a winger but again can play through the middle with his pace.

The three Scottish players mentioned are midfielders who get forward when they can to support whoever plays up front. Christie at times has been the closest to a forward but seems to play deeper as he gets older.

The two groups aren't like for like really but I feel the Welsh seem to have more options going forward. We obviously play a different system with Dykes, Adams or now Shankland leading the line and looking to play in the lads from behind. I'd say we lack width in the forward areas and don't really have any wide attacking players.

I wouldn't be in a rush to swap our midfielders for any of the Welsh midfield although Ampadu and Jordan James are decent young players.

I suppose with International squads you play to your strengths and Steve Clarke certainly does that. I certainly can't think of any available forward players, wide or central who would improve the current squad. 

Interesting that Scotland have been linked with the likes of Harvey Barnes and Anthony Gordon  recently, as they would add some attacking width. Thus giving us more options, especially in wide areas in the final third.

Bottom line though there aren't these type of players actually available to us which would allow us to change the system at the moment. 

 

[Skyline Drifter]

3 minutes ago, Claudia Gentile said:

Broadhead and Moore are 9s. Brooks a 10 with Wilson mostly a right sided forward but vacancies play behind the forward too. Johnson is talented enough to play anywhere across the front 3 or in behind. James is more of a winger but again can play through the middle with his pace.

The three Scottish players mentioned are midfielders who get forward when they can to support whoever plays up front. Christie at times has been the closest to a forward but seems to play deeper as he gets older.

The two groups aren't like for like really but I feel the Welsh seem to have more options going forward. We obviously play a different system with Dykes, Adams or now Shankland leading the line and looking to play in the lads from behind. I'd say we lack width in the forward areas and don't really have any wide attacking players.

I wouldn't be in a rush to swap our midfielders for any of the Welsh midfield although Ampadu and Jordan James are decent young players.

I suppose with International squads you play to your strengths and Steve Clarke certainly does that. I certainly can't think of any available forward players, wide or central who would improve the current squad. 

Interesting that Scotland have been linked with the likes of Harvey Barnes and Anthony Gordon  recently, as they would add some attacking width. Thus giving us more options, especially in wide areas in the final third.

Bottom line though there aren't these type of players actually available to us which would allow us to change the system at the moment. 

 

Meh, 10's, midfielder who get forward.........

Given a choice of "Dykes, Adams, Shankland, McGinn, McTominay, Christie (Armstrong)" or "Moore, Broadhead, Johnson, Brooks, Wilson, James" I'd take the former group. I certainly don't think the Welsh are obviously better or anything we should be overly envious of.

 

[2426255]

10 minutes ago, Claudia Gentile said:

I'd say we lack width in the forward areas and don't really have any wide attacking players.

I understand what you're saying, but I don't think it has a bearing how effective we are in those areas.

If you look at the Scotland team our primary route to victory are the wide areas - they're key to how we attack. Our midfielders are always involved in those attacks in wide areas - working with the wing backs and central midfielders to get into these zones . For example, that could be Christie, McGinn, Armstrong, McLean on the left or McGinn, Ferguson, McTominay on the right alongside others like Gilmour, Tierney and McGregor etc.

[Richey Edwards]

Marc McNulty being back in the squad would be a major boost ahead of the Euros.

[Claudia Gentile]

43 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

I understand what you're saying, but I don't think it has a bearing how effective we are in those areas.

If you look at the Scotland team our primary route to victory are the wide areas - they're key to how we attack. Our midfielders are always involved in those attacks in wide areas - working with the wing backs and central midfielders to get into these zones . For example, that could be Christie, McGinn, Armstrong, McLean on the left or McGinn, Ferguson, McTominay on the right alongside others like Gilmour, Tierney and McGregor etc.

We definitely work hard in all areas and it has been effective. As you say we have made great use of our wing backs in turn with their respective wide midfielders. This has resulted in the phenomenal goal returns for McGinn and McTominay.

We aren't going to make any great changes as what we have has worked well.

I reckon I was trying to say we would need one or two quality different wide players for the manager to even contemplate a change. 

I should point out we are better than Wales, they just seem to be apparently stronger or at least more depth in different areas compared with us. I'm sure they would love to have a Lewis Ferguson equivalent waiting in the wings for example.

[HuttonDressedAsLahm]

Wales are making the best use of the types of players they have.  Their wing backs and midfielders are substantially below what we have, and their only option at striker (Moore) is comparable to Adams/Dykes.  What they have is a glut of decent Championship/lower-level Premier league wingers, plus Johnson who looks like he can perform at a good level.  For some reason, we don't seem to be creating wingers or strikers right now, but I'd imagine that's cyclical. 

If we had their players, we'd be doing something similar.

They'd love to have McGinn/McTominay/Gilmour/Ferguson/Mcgregor.

They perform above the sum of their parts, and have done a good job of transitioning from Bale.  I'd politely suggest that outwith the Croatia game at home, they've shown very little to suggest they can come close to achieving what the Bale-led team was capable of.

A home draw against a poor Finland was helpful, and home again tomorrow against a fairly mediocre Poland side is fortunate.

Tomorrow's game will be interesting, if only for us to have a gauge as to where Poland are ahead of UNL.  I have nothing against the Welsh, but I'd prefer Poland to qualify so we can see their performances in more detail (and dare I hope, a swansong for Lewandowski?!)

[Scary Bear]

1 hour ago, Skyline Drifter said:

I think a lot of that will depend on your geography. My son is playing kids football in D&G and we play on a grass pitch once or twice a season maybe. D&G is full of 3G pitches, Almost every club has access to one. There are four in Dumfries alone. Gretna, Annan, Dalbeattie, Lockerbie, Kirkcudbright and Stranraer all have one too.

I'm conscious there's not many in Dunbartonshire for instance. Not really sure about other areas?

That said, far from convinced the better quality pitches are why we're not producing strikers.

Do they though? That's a list of mostly attacking midfielders. Moore's an out and out forward largely playing at the same level as Dykes. He's more of a goalscorer  probably and a similar level of a handful. Adams has more games at a higher level than him though different kind of player.

Johnson's probably an attacker but he plays a wider role and hasn't really played through the middle for either Wales, Spurs or Forest. He's certainly a real talent, although Welsh by accident more than any clever development from the Welsh FA. I'd be delighted if Brennan Johnson was Scottish though not sure where he'd fit in our current system.

The rest of them are midfielders and not one of them I'd swap for McTominay, McGinn or Christie.

For the avoidance of doubt, I don’t think the reason we have a lack of quality strikers is to do with us not playing on ash or poor quality grass pitches.

From October to March the team I am involved with train on artificial pitches. We also play friendlies on artificial pitches and there’s even indoor artificial pitches at Glenrothes which are excellent. If we had more indoor pitches that would be the way to go.

Then March comes around, the season starts and we’re mainly back on grass pitches. Some of the teams play on outdoor artificial pitches but most are on grass. We’ve played 4 league games so far and they were all on grass. The grass hasn’t been cut yet so you can imagine what the pitches are like. None of the pitches have seen a roller. They are bobbly, uneven and sometimes on a slope. They aren’t great quality pitches but we get by.

The teams in our league are from Kirkcaldy / Glenrothes right up to St Andrews.

My personal thinking is that the more artificial pitches we have, the better. Especially indoor pitches. Having flat pitches is great, but you still have to put up with the Scottish weather. 

In terms of why we don’t produce great strikers, I think it is to do with the coaching ethos in Scotland, and probably a bit to do with the way the youth system is structured, with fun 4s, then 5s, then 7s, then 9s, then 11s.

The team I coach are playing 7s. We do have one player who is an out and out centre forward, but he’s the exception. The rest are a mix, and if our league is anything to go by, I can see from watching the teams why we produce good midfielders and wing backs.

[Skyline Drifter]

54 minutes ago, Scary Bear said:

For the avoidance of doubt, I don’t think the reason we have a lack of quality strikers is to do with us not playing on ash or poor quality grass pitches.

From October to March the team I am involved with train on artificial pitches. We also play friendlies on artificial pitches and there’s even indoor artificial pitches at Glenrothes which are excellent. If we had more indoor pitches that would be the way to go.

Then March comes around, the season starts and we’re mainly back on grass pitches. Some of the teams play on outdoor artificial pitches but most are on grass. We’ve played 4 league games so far and they were all on grass. The grass hasn’t been cut yet so you can imagine what the pitches are like. None of the pitches have seen a roller. They are bobbly, uneven and sometimes on a slope. They aren’t great quality pitches but we get by.

The teams in our league are from Kirkcaldy / Glenrothes right up to St Andrews.

My personal thinking is that the more artificial pitches we have, the better. Especially indoor pitches. Having flat pitches is great, but you still have to put up with the Scottish weather. 

In terms of why we don’t produce great strikers, I think it is to do with the coaching ethos in Scotland, and probably a bit to do with the way the youth system is structured, with fun 4s, then 5s, then 7s, then 9s, then 11s.

The team I coach are playing 7s. We do have one player who is an out and out centre forward, but he’s the exception. The rest are a mix, and if our league is anything to go by, I can see from watching the teams why we produce good midfielders and wing backs.

Yeah, wouldn't disagree with any of that really. Other than that as said previously, we play hardly any games on grass. In the D&G youth league currently, only two clubs (Terregles and Lochar Thistle) have a grass pitch as their main venue. Our own club (Greystone Rovers) have a 3G 1st choice and a back up grass pitch which is occasionally used. Moffat Thistle also had grass but they no longer have a team at u15s level.

We're now on 11 a side and don't really have a striker in the squad. We lost three of our best attacking players about 18 months back but even they were two wingers and a "no 10" rather than an out and out goalscorer. I think it's probably fair that the small sided ethos as they develop takes away from the main striker focus. Hadn't really thought about that before.

Mine also plays for his school team which is probably there or thereabouts the best school in the region. They won the league last year and lost the cup final to Stranraer. They may lose the league this year to Annan, still to be confirmed. They don't really have a "striker" either. The lad who scores most of the goals is lightning quick and cuts in from the left wing usually.

[Gordopolis]

2 hours ago, Richey Edwards said:

Marc McNulty being back in the sea would be a major boost ahead of the Euros.

FTFY

[Hendricks]

Pretty positive stuff from Clarke about Shankland

 

 

Scotland manager defends Hearts striker despite Netherlands miss

25th March

By Matthew Lindsay@MattLindsayHTChief Football Writer

 

WITH Che Adams only getting on for the final 25 minutes or so against the Netherlands in Amsterdam on Friday night and Lyndon Dykes not featuring at all, Steve Clarke may well start with a new striker this evening.

Not that the Scotland manager was giving an awful lot away when he was quizzed by reporters yesterday about his intentions for the meeting with Northern Ireland at Hampden. “Do you want the team?” he said with a raise of his eyebrows. “I’ll sleep on it.”

If Clarke does wake up today and decide to change who plays up front in the friendly international it will be no reflection, none whatsoever, on how Lawrence Shankland performed in attack in the Johan Cruyff Arena last week.

Nor will it mean the free-scoring Hearts captain is being punished for the scoring opportunity he spurned – he was clean through on goal with only goalkeeper Mark Flekken to beat and hit the crossbar - in the second half of the encounter with the Dutch last week.

Many fans and pundits have suggested that Shankland, who was surprisingly given the nod ahead of Tartan Army favourites and proven performers Adams and Dykes, has blown his chances of leading the line for his country in the Euro 2024 finals in Germany in June because of his glaring miss in the 4-0 defeat.

That, though, is not how Clarke views things. He felt the eight-times capped 28-year-old, who has netted on 28 occasions in the 2023/24 campaign, actually proved he could compete against top class international opposition during his time on the park. If anything, he believes the forward has furthered his cause.

 

“I don’t buy that at all,” he said. “I think that goalscorers are goalscorers. He worked ever so hard to get that chance. Nobody is more disappointed than Lawrence that he didn’t take it. But he knows that there will be another chance and he’ll probably score it. 

“No, Lawrence was good. The reason I played Lawrence against Holland was I have to see how he plays against that level of opposition. And he was good. He’s done himself no harm whatsoever. 

“Forget the scoreline. Forget the chance that he missed. Lawrence was good in the game. It was a good night for Lawrence. Maybe not a good night for everybody else. It was just one of those nights, wasn’t it? When we had to score goals in qualifying we scored goals. I have got no concerns.”

Clarke, who ordered his Scotland players to press the Netherlands high up the park from kick-off on Friday evening, appreciates that Shankland gives him a different option in the final third. He is not about to disregard such a lethal predator because of a single shot which struck the woodwork.  

“The other two boys?” he said. “We know what they can do. It would be nice if one of them at their club started to knock in the goals and became the main man. I’d much rather three of them were doing it going into the Euros. Then it makes it a difficult choice. 

“There will always be a little bit of horses for courses in terms of the nature of the striker, the make-up of the opposition and how we are going to approach the game, with a high press or a lower block. There’s always going to be room to manoeuvre with the strikers. And that helps. 

“He’s just a different player. Dykesy is different to Che, Che is different to Lawrence and Lawrence is different to Dyksey. They all bring something a little bit different. Dykesy and Che have got their own qualities and Lawrence has got his qualities.” 

 

Clarke, he reminded the assembled media, gave Shankland a call-up when he was playing in the second tier of Scottish football with Dundee United. He feels he has progressed hugely as a player since then and has even more to contribute.  

“Lawrence has improved,” he said. “There’s no doubt. I brought Lawrence in to the squad on another dark night (in a 4-0 defeat to Russia in Moscow in a Euro 2020 qualifier in 2019) and he was a Championship player at the time. 

“But obviously I saw qualities in him. I thought, ‘If he continues to develop the way he’s developing’. And he has done. He’s got himself now scoring goals for the third best team in Scotland this year in Hearts. 

“He’s scoring goals week in week out. It doesn’t matter who he’s playing against. He’ll score against Celtic and Rangers, he’ll score against Livi down at the bottom or St Johnstone. He scores goals.”

Clarke could do with a few of his Scotland players having their shooting boots on tonight.

The national team, who have lost to England, Spain, France and the Netherlands and drawn with Georgia and Norway in the past six months, desperately need to end a six game winless run and start building up a head of steam before the Euro 2024 finals.

However, the manager stressed that he was far from despondent about the loss to Ronald Koemann’s star-studded side despite the final scoreline after watching his men dominate the opening hour.

“I want us to be a team that can play different systems, can play different ways and be confident in whichever way we decide to go on to the pitch,” he said. “Normally against a Pot One team we would be a little bit deeper and wait for our moments to break. We decided that we would go and have a press and it worked pretty well for us.

“We took them on, we went toe to toe with them. If we are clinical in the right moments and get ourselves in front or get ourselves equalised the whole game changes, the whole mood on the night can change.

“Listen, there was a lot to take from the game positively. In the debrief we spent as much time, if not more time, talking about the positives than the ending. We saw one or two things towards the end that we can improve in. And hopefully in the future, when we get to that type of scenario, we know better how to manage a game like that.”

 

[Hendricks]

I'll preface this with saying two things; (i) yes I'm a Jambo and (ii) I have sympathy for Dykes this evening give how badly the team played. However surely there has to be a very good argument that not only is Shankland someone worthy of minutes at the Euro's but that he should actually be starting in Munich. Put simply the team looks better with him it. We have far more of a threat in the box when he is on the pitch. He has that instinct like our best goalscorers of the past NB I am not comparing him to more talented players and am under no illusions of his athletic limitations or anything like that but the guy brings a buzz to a side and he is always always a threat.

Dykes has always been terribly limited at international level but has performed admirably for Scotland and can still play a big role at the Euro's but it's time for us to show more ambition and help the good collection of midfielders that we have at our disposal. Shanks managed to have 3 efforts in 15 minutes tonight, he knows where the ball will drop much like a Mcoist or Johnston from the past. He has to now be right at the forefront of Clarke's mind. If he continues to perform and score for Hearts I don't see how you now leave him out. 

Edited March 26 by Hendricks

[2426255]

28 minutes ago, Hendricks said:

I'll preface this with saying two things; (i) yes I'm a Jambo and (ii) I have sympathy for Dykes this evening give how badly the team played. However surely there has to be a very good argument that not only is Shankland someone worthy of minutes at the Euro's but that he should actually be starting in Munich. Put simply the team looks better with him it. We have far more of a threat in the box when he is on the pitch. He has that instant like our bets goalscorer of the past NB I am not comparing him to more talented players and am under no illusions of his athletic limitations or untying like that but the guy brings a buzz to a side and he is always always a threat.

Dykes has always been terribly limited at international level but has performed admirably for Scotland and can still play a big role at the Euro's but it's time for us to show more ambition and help the good collection of midfielders that we have at our disposal. Shanks managed to have 3 efforts in 15 minutes tonight, he knows where the ball will drop much like a Mcoist or Johnston from the past. He has to now be right at the forefront of Clarke's mind. If he continues to perform and score for Hearts I don't see how you now leave him out. 

Look mate, with the best will in the world you have a bias, If he was playing for Aberdeen or Hibernian you wouldn't be making this post. Added to that Hearts don't play Germany or any team close to that level.

I'm not saying Shankland shouldn't start, he was decent against the Netherlands, not stand out, but was competent at that level. There's not much to judge him on tonight so I wouldn't hold that against him in any way. Has he put forward a case that he's any better than what else we have? I'd say it's an open question at the moment. Selection might come down to other factors. Are we going to approach the Germany game like we approached the Netherlands game? or will it be more like the Spain game?

He has taken a step forward in the sense that he could start, but not that he should start, that's how I'd sum it up.

Edited March 26 by 2426255

[Hendricks]

5 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

Look mate, with the best will in the world you have a bias, If he was playing for Aberdeen or Hibernian you wouldn't be making this post. Added to that Hearts don't play Germany or any team close to that level.

I'm not saying Shankland shouldn't start, he was decent against the Netherlands, not stand out, but was competent at that level. There's not much to judge him on tonight so I wouldn't hold that against him in any way. Has he put forward a case that he's any better than what else we have? I'd say it's an open question at the moment and it might come down to other factors. Are we going to approach the Germany game like we approached the Netherlands game? or will it be more like the Spain game?

He has taken a step forward in the sense that he could start, but not that he should start, that's how I'd sum it up.

 

Are Scotland a better team, with more threat, with him up front over Lyndon Dykes? The answer is now, in March 2024, yes we are. That has f**k all to do with me supporting Hearts. Dykes does not look like scoring goals. Shankland does. It is that simple. That does not mean I am writing off Dykes's possible contribution just that for me starting him now in a major tournament reeks of pragmatism and frankly negativity. I appreciate you have a different view on it but the tide has definitely turned and you only need listen to the likes of Faddy and McCann who have been there and done that and know who provides the greater goal threat. Shanks should start in Munich. 

Edited March 26 by Hendricks

[2426255]

6 minutes ago, Hendricks said:

 

Are Scotland a better team, with more threat, with him up front over Lyndon Dykes? The answer is now, in March 2024, yes we are. That has f**k all to do with me supporting Hearts. Dykes does not look like scoring goals. Shankland does. It is that simple. That does not mean I am writing off Dykes's possible contribution just that for me starting him now in a major tournament reeks of pragmatism and frankly negativity. I appreciate you have a different view on it but the tide has definitely turned and you only need listen to the likes of Faddy and McCann who have been there and done that and know who provides the greater goal threat. Shanks should start in Munich. 

You're obviously not interested in hearing other viewpoints, just pushing forward your own. Good luck with that and we'll just have to wait and see what happens in the Summer.