United 🟠 v Rovers 🔵 - the final top of the table clash

[Double Jack D]

On the search every person debate. All this achieves is taking juice bottles off kids which is not the purpose of the bottle ban at all. Folk who want to conceal things will always be able to and I have no desire for all fans to be full frisked to the extent required to prevent the smuggling of these items into the ground. 

The action of handing out bans and criminally prosecuting any imbecile who throws items at players is how to deal with it. As well as the ban announced by the club, I'd hope Police Scotland take it further too.

Fans should also expose any idiot amongst us who does so. If I had been next to the knob that threw the bottle on Saturday I would've done so, I was absolutely raging when I saw it. 

[Glen Scotia]

3 hours ago, Stellaboz said:

Clubs absolutely can search every single person who enters the stadium.

Ofcourse they can in the same way shop lifting can be stopped overnight by searching everyone who leaves the shop. It isn't the answer though is it. 10,000 crowd being searched because 1 or 2 lads can't behave 

[parsboi]

Been in the US for a while now, every person regardless of their age gets searched,  have to walk through a metal detector barrier and then a wand search before they get into the stadium at Austin FC.  Not sure if it’s similar experiences for Txrover in his part of the state.  
 

The point is, it CAN be done, if it really wants to be done.  But there’s got to be a balance there.  
 

Unfortunately every single support of every club has an element of utter wee fuds who think it’s a good thing to bring banned and dangerous stuff into football grounds.  And it’s getting worse, not better.  
 

Not sure entirely of the solution, but I think it won’t be long before clubs are made to act, and we can see netting going up in parts of the ground to stop things being thrown - or increased policing/stewarding being enforced by authorities.  

[Tannadeechee]

18 minutes ago, parsboi said:

Been in the US for a while now, every person regardless of their age gets searched,  have to walk through a metal detector barrier and then a wand search before they get into the stadium at Austin FC.  Not sure if it’s similar experiences for Txrover in his part of the state.  
 

The point is, it CAN be done, if it really wants to be done.  But there’s got to be a balance there.  
 

Unfortunately every single support of every club has an element of utter wee fuds who think it’s a good thing to bring banned and dangerous stuff into football grounds.  And it’s getting worse, not better.  
 

Not sure entirely of the solution, but I think it won’t be long before clubs are made to act, and we can see netting going up in parts of the ground to stop things being thrown - or increased policing/stewarding being enforced by authorities.  

The difference being fans in the States will turn up in advance of kick off, where by there are vast swathes of fans who sit in the pub to almost the last moment. If you need to search everyone then the delay in getting tlin before kick off may cause folk to kick off. It only needs one or two in the queue to do so, before others may react, in some cases justifiably, verbally and then you can have a big problem. If folk would only act like adults ( I know!!!) then there would be no problem.

[parsforlife]

25 minutes ago, parsboi said:

Been in the US for a while now, every person regardless of their age gets searched,  have to walk through a metal detector barrier and then a wand search before they get into the stadium at Austin FC.  Not sure if it’s similar experiences for Txrover in his part of the state.  
 

The point is, it CAN be done, if it really wants to be done.  But there’s got to be a balance there.  
 

Unfortunately every single support of every club has an element of utter wee fuds who think it’s a good thing to bring banned and dangerous stuff into football grounds.  And it’s getting worse, not better.  
 

Not sure entirely of the solution, but I think it won’t be long before clubs are made to act, and we can see netting going up in parts of the ground to stop things being thrown - or increased policing/stewarding being enforced by authorities.  

Must be missing something if metal detectors and wand search(which is just a close proximity metal detector) is going to pick up glass.

You get those sort of searches going into gigs now and shit loads of prohibited things get through.  This sort of thing is mostly anti-weapon and again performance art,  if I'm turning up armed to an american football game intent on carnage sure as f**k a metal detector isn't stopping me.

Netting ETC may happen, but I really don't think putting fans as a whole at war with authorities is a good idea at all which these sort of blanket measures encourage.

we need majority decent fans and authorities against the small minority. 

[Stellaboz]

I have the solution.

Arm everyone going IN (and disarm on the way out) and if anyone acts in this manner it's a given that they get a mauling. 

[parsboi]

8 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

Must be missing something if metal detectors and wand search(which is just a close proximity metal detector) is going to pick up glass.

You get those sort of searches going into gigs now and shit loads of prohibited things get through.  This sort of thing is mostly anti-weapon and again performance art,  if I'm turning up armed to an american football game intent on carnage sure as f**k a metal detector isn't stopping me.

Netting ETC may happen, but I really don't think putting fans as a whole at war with authorities is a good idea at all which these sort of blanket measures encourage.

we need majority decent fans and authorities against the small minority. 

You might have missed the search bit before the metal detector and wand, the way folk are frisked here compared to back home would more than likely stop the glass bottle.

I’m not saying that’s the complete solution for Scottish football but it’s part of a potential wider solution in time, because I just don’t see self policing and hands off approaches stopping these fuds continuing to behave as such.  It’s sad.
 

[DA Baracus]

Get searched punted, although I haven't been searched going in to a game since Falkirk away last season.

[parsforlife]

24 minutes ago, parsboi said:

You might have missed the search bit before the metal detector and wand, the way folk are frisked here compared to back home would more than likely stop the glass bottle.

I’m not saying that’s the complete solution for Scottish football but it’s part of a potential wider solution in time, because I just don’t see self policing and hands off approaches stopping these fuds continuing to behave as such.  It’s sad.
 

Sorry,  thought the search you referenced was about the metal detector and wand, didn't realise there was a hands on frisk first.  It must be very invasive if its going to find something in your inner thigh,  that sort of frisk should rightly not happen. A steward runs there hand up towards my balls and they won't like my reaction. No way is that considered a reasonable sacrifice in order to watch 22 men chase a bag of leather(plastic). 

I may sound extreme to some but not having borderline sexual assault to thousands to accept one or two may have a bottle on them is acceptable to me.  Ban them if they behave irresponsibly inside the ground,  don't subject everyone to ridiculous authoritarianism.  

10 minutes ago, DA Baracus said:

Get searched punted, although I haven't been searched going in to a game since Falkirk away last season.

Last got searched at Morton whilst my dad didn't,  its quite clearly age discriminatory who gets selected. Not that the search would have found anything if I had it(I didn't obvs)  told the guy my gloves were in my jacket pocket and a light pat down was all that was done, I could of easily had something in my jumper pocket behind and they wouldn't have a clue.

Edited April 1 by parsforlife

[parsboi]

By the way, before it gets misinterpreted, I’m not advocating for searches like that.  Merely outlining that it’s the direction of travel if things don’t improve and authorities decide to make it a priority.  Much rather we could go to a sporting event and not have (as parsforlife beautifully put it ) an intimate search performed on us.  

[Twinkle]

Only way around it is arming players with bottles to defend themselves so they can throw them back into the crowd. Fairs fair

[Glen Scotia]

I'm presuming most fans who go to games have a zero tolerance attitude towards this behaviour so, fans policing their own fans I'm all for.

1,300 Raith fans, 1 guy lobs a glass bottle. You can bet a wee number of fans seen it happen. Only takes a fewto point him out and have him ejected mid game. I know it might take balls to do so but if everyone stands together then it could work 

[parsforlife]

5 minutes ago, Glen Scotia said:

I'm presuming most fans who go to games have a zero tolerance attitude towards this behaviour so, fans policing their own fans I'm all for.

1,300 Raith fans, 1 guy lobs a glass bottle. You can bet a wee number of fans seen it happen. Only takes a fewto point him out and have him ejected mid game. I know it might take balls to do so but if everyone stands together then it could work 

A few may have seen it happen.  Those close enough that could directly identify the individual and not the section would have likely been those of a similar mindset and wouldn't call out the individual.

[Tannadeechee]

34 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

A few may have seen it happen.  Those close enough that could directly identify the individual and not the section would have likely been those of a similar mindset and wouldn't call out the individual.

There in lies the problem. I've been in a similar situation when attending a game with my son who was 8 years old at the time and the fear is that I ended up with grief  & trying to keep him safe as the were partmof a much larger group. Confronting them in that situation was not an option and trying to speak to stewards etc may have been difficult without making it obvious. As we get more of the attitude that idiot behaviour is unacceptable then the easier it should become for folk to self police.

[TxRover]

6 hours ago, parsboi said:

Been in the US for a while now, every person regardless of their age gets searched,  have to walk through a metal detector barrier and then a wand search before they get into the stadium at Austin FC.  Not sure if it’s similar experiences for Txrover in his part of the state.  
 

The point is, it CAN be done, if it really wants to be done.  But there’s got to be a balance there.  
 

Unfortunately every single support of every club has an element of utter wee fuds who think it’s a good thing to bring banned and dangerous stuff into football grounds.  And it’s getting worse, not better.  
 

Not sure entirely of the solution, but I think it won’t be long before clubs are made to act, and we can see netting going up in parts of the ground to stop things being thrown - or increased policing/stewarding being enforced by authorities.  

Metal detectors, bags often either banned or required to be transparent and small, plus searched, targeted wanding or pat downs for alerts.. That being said, sneaking in alcohol would be easy, but it’s for sale inside, so why bother. Ushers kick out those with outside bottles and flasks when seen. Only sports venue/city with a throwing reputation is Philly, and that’s batteries and coins. You’ll see trash onto the ice as some NHL games, not targeted, and some snowballs (often containing batteries in Philly)…that’s about it.

[North West]

Dress this up how you like and discuss this to death, but other Raith Rovers fans know who threw this bottle because they saw it thrown. 

Regardless, the fuckin idiot will get caught if Uniteds CCTV cameras are any good. 

[TxRover]

1 minute ago, North West said:

Dress this up how you like and discuss this to death, but other Raith Rovers fans know who threw this bottle because they saw it thrown. 

Regardless, the fuckin idiot will get caught if Uniteds CCTV cameras are any good. 

You realize it’s already happened, eh? Don’t half hurt your narrative, does it?

[North West]

3 minutes ago, TxRover said:

You realize it’s already happened, eh? Don’t half hurt your narrative, does it?

*Sigh* - What an extremely silly post.

If the idiot has been caught, then fantastic. Well done to those who were instrumental in catching the thug  

It's good to see thugs who bring this type of behaviour into games caught, legally punished and banned. 

[TxRover]

Just now, North West said:

*Sigh* - What an extremely silly post.

What, pointing out your pronouncement is irrelevant due to events? No, sir, you are silly.

2 minutes ago, North West said:

If the idiot has been caught, then fantastic. Well done to those who were instrumental in catching the thug  

It's good to see thugs who bring this type of behaviour into games caught, legally punished and banned. 

Caught, banned from Starks Park, and I’m sure Police Scotland will be looking into the matter. So why don’t you move over to the Raith vs Ayr thread to continue your incessant braying.

[Toby]

26 minutes ago, TxRover said:

What, pointing out your pronouncement is irrelevant due to events? No, sir, you are silly.

Caught, banned from Starks Park, and I’m sure Police Scotland will be looking into the matter. So why don’t you move over to the Raith vs Ayr thread to continue your incessant braying.

I’m not sure they will be at all.

Raith might prove me wrong, and fair play to them if they do, but going by their statement, it looks to me like they’ve taken the decision to ban the fan and leave it at that, rather than hand their details onto Police Scotland.

If they were to seek criminal charges, as they absolutely should, the correct course of action would be to suspend the fan pending a police investigation, so as not to prejudice any potential court case, before banning them for life on the conclusion of the case.

Instead they look to have taken the easy way out, banning the fan and moving swiftly on.

If the fan faces criminal charges, any lawyer worth their salt would surely point to Raith’s decision to impose a ban on them as prejudicing the case- basically deciding on their guilt before the court process has taken place.

I suspect Raith have done this clown a favour by merely banning them instead of handing their details over to the authorities. I’d like to be proven wrong.