Junior Takeover

[Arthurlie1981]

21 minutes ago, Dean Learner said:

It wasn't an Old Firm derby but we played Bens at New Tinto with a 2pm kick off on the same day Rangers kicked off at Ibrox at 3. That was this season. 

We did the same last week

[Arthurlie1981]

On the topic as a whole. 
 

Is it a conflict of interest - yes

Is it a SJFA takeover - maybe 

At the end of the day the clubs make the best decisions for themselves. It’s a democracy and every club gets a vote. I personally only see one thing being changed which is that (if as reported) the SCC becomes optional. Again though just because there is a change of Chairman doesn’t mean it will/wont happen. It could happen no matter who the Chair is as all it takes is 2 clubs to propose/second an amendment to the rules and it would be voted on. 
 

Someone asked earlier why my club would propose a new Chairman. I have my suspicions but I don’t think it would be fair to put them out publicly ATM.

 

I do think there is an overreaction in some quarters to something that hasn’t happened yet. People will have their reasons but the mudslinging on here about it is ridiculous. 

[grinderbrokeyourhearts]

On 04/04/2024 at 22:50, Burnieman said:

 

I heard this today.  First proposal apparently is to make the South Challenge Cup non-compulsory, a complete co-incidence of course.

What's going on in the West, do they want to wind the clock back to the 1960's?

Wouldn’t it not make more sense to make the WoS League Cup optional as that’s the only teams that take part in the Junior Cup?

[An Absolute Imposter]

32 minutes ago, Arthurlie1981 said:

I personally only see one thing being changed which is that (if as reported) the SCC becomes optional.

Can the SRCC be optional? Sure I read entry to this is a stipulation of being a league in the pyramid that is part of the Lowland catchment area. Could be wrong, pretty sure @glensmad would be able to confirm.

[An Absolute Imposter]

3 minutes ago, grinderbrokeyourhearts said:

Wouldn’t it not make more sense to make the WoS League Cup optional as that’s the only teams that take part in the Junior Cup?

The only optional cup is SJC as WOSFL cup is mandatory for all WOS clubs. 

Not all WOS clubs take part in SJC.

[FairWeatherFan]

3 minutes ago, An Absolute Imposter said:

Can the SRCC be optional? Sure I read entry to this is a stipulation of being a league in the pyramid that is part of the Lowland catchment area. Could be wrong, pretty sure @glensmad would be able to confirm.

There seems to be an attempt to make it optional within the WoSFL constitution.

That doesn't mean that the Lowland, EoSFL, or SoSFL would accept the situation. Which brings you to the typical impasse seen when the PWG was a thing.

[energyzone]

10 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

There seems to be an attempt to make it optional within the WoSFL constitution.

That doesn't mean that the Lowland, EoSFL, or SoSFL would accept the situation. Which brings you to the typical impasse seen when the PWG was a thing.

The impasse was partially down to the Junior representatives at the meetings giving false information to the rest of the group.  I remember the former Kilwinning Rangers chairman saying that their representative at the PWG announced that no West Junior clubs were interested in the pyramid, which was a surprise to him as Kilwinning and others had been working for some time towards a new league structure.

[judge macbrayne]

https://fb.watch/rhrweV5-LR/

[An Absolute Imposter]

55 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

There seems to be an attempt to make it optional within the WoSFL constitution.

That doesn't mean that the Lowland, EoSFL, or SoSFL would accept the situation. Which brings you to the typical impasse seen when the PWG was a thing.

Hoped we were past all this crap. Why is it always the West this happens.

East moved away from juniors, nobody seems to want to go back. Tayside and North still operating as juniors without any issues. But in the West just constant bitching. 

Can we no just get on with the game, this continuous nonsense about juniors was best/no it wisnae debate helps no-one.

Either take part in the pyramid or leave it, another year without a licensed champ makes the West a joke league.

 

[An Absolute Imposter]

Seriously if any clubs don't want to be a part of the pyramid then that is their democratic right, but do the decent thing and go set up your own league and call it whatever you want. Stop sabotaging the set up for those clubs that want to be a part of the pyramid. 

Why be a part of something you constantly belittle. Makes no sense. 

[GIRUU]

2 hours ago, Arthurlie1981 said:

Someone asked earlier why my club would propose a new Chairman. I have my suspicions but I don’t think it would be fair to put them out publicly ATM.

Probably wouldn’t be fair but might make a cracking read though . . . .

[Shanner]

1 minute ago, An Absolute Imposter said:

Seriously if any clubs don't want to be a part of the pyramid then that is their democratic right, but do the decent thing and go set up your own league and call it whatever you want. Stop sabotaging the set up for those clubs that want to be a part of the pyramid. 

Why be a part of something you constantly belittle. Makes no sense. 

Remind me why only certain views should be represented again? There's no chance of anyone returning to the junior days so maybe it's time for people to stop parroting that line on here at every opportunity. The former Junior sides didn't sign up for the pyramid on the basis that they had to set aside their own interests and align unconditionally with a certain set of values. Every team from top to bottom in any league structure will ultimately act in their own interests above the interests of the pyramid FFS. 

Also, as an aside merely saying the words "progressive" and "ambitious" all the time does not endow the speaker or club they support with moral superiority or any sort of insight. 

[Vanderbilt]

3 minutes ago, Shanner said:

Remind me why only certain views should be represented again? There's no chance of anyone returning to the junior days so maybe it's time for people to stop parroting that line on here at every opportunity. The former Junior sides didn't sign up for the pyramid on the basis that they had to set aside their own interests and align unconditionally with a certain set of values. Every team from top to bottom in any league structure will ultimately act in their own interests above the interests of the pyramid FFS. 

Also, as an aside merely saying the words "progressive" and "ambitious" all the time does not endow the speaker or club they support with moral superiority or any sort of insight. 

Why are Talbot proposing a guy who is clearly anti pyramid?

[Shanner]

1 minute ago, Vanderbilt said:

Why are Talbot proposing a guy who is clearly anti pyramid?

You'd need to ask Talbot about that. 

[Dean Learner]

40 minutes ago, An Absolute Imposter said:

Hoped we were past all this crap. Why is it always the West this happens.

East moved away from juniors, nobody seems to want to go back. Tayside and North still operating as juniors without any issues. But in the West just constant bitching. 

Can we no just get on with the game, this continuous nonsense about juniors was best/no it wisnae debate helps no-one.

Either take part in the pyramid or leave it, another year without a licensed champ makes the West a joke league.

 

How can the league do anything to resolve this when clubs at the moment have no opportunity to become licensed? 

[Arthurlie1981]

53 minutes ago, An Absolute Imposter said:

Seriously if any clubs don't want to be a part of the pyramid then that is their democratic right, but do the decent thing and go set up your own league and call it whatever you want. Stop sabotaging the set up for those clubs that want to be a part of the pyramid. 

Why be a part of something you constantly belittle. Makes no sense. 

Who is sabotaging anything? One person is being nominated to a role in the WOSFL. Nothing else so far has changed. He might not get in FFS. I don’t think we should make the SCC optional but I no longer hold a role where I can express that opinion. I don’t think this is going to change the WOSFL place in the pyramid, but if it did then those clubs who want to breakaway can do so or vice versa.
 

Remember that all the clubs moved to the WOSFL as they had no where else to go at that time. 

 

I don’t want to go back away from the pyramid but nothing has indicated that being the case so far. Let’s get upset when something actually changes FFS 

[An Absolute Imposter]

23 minutes ago, Dean Learner said:

How can the league do anything to resolve this when clubs at the moment have no opportunity to become licensed? 

From the outside, which is where I am, it certainly looks like some clubs only became licensed to gain access to the golden goose of the Big Scottish. There is no cohesion across the league's and again from the outside all are working to their own agenda and to hell with what'd good for the set-up.

It most certainly does not help that the governing association are only paying lip service to the pyramid and don't appear interested in its development in any form other than to kowtow to the whims of those 2 unmentionables.

[An Absolute Imposter]

1 minute ago, Arthurlie1981 said:

Who is sabotaging anything? One person is being nominated to a role in the WOSFL. Nothing else so far has changed. He might not get in FFS. I don’t think we should make the SCC optional but I no longer hold a role where I can express that opinion. I don’t think this is going to change the WOSFL place in the pyramid, but if it did then those clubs who want to breakaway can do so or vice versa.
 

Remember that all the clubs moved to the WOSFL as they had no where else to go at that time. 

 

I don’t want to go back away from the pyramid but nothing has indicated that being the case so far. Let’s get upset when something actually changes FFS 

Why did clubs have nowhere else to go? Didn't the West Juniors still exist at the time?

I'm not suggesting that this man, whoever he may be, is trying to do any sabotaging, if I hinted at that I apologise.

I am just a football fan and do not follow one club. I just read output on here and other social media and the internal bitching that goes back and forth in the West is not visible in any other league. 

They rightly complain about the lack of movement at Tier 5, but it is undeniable that there is an apathy towards the pyramid emanating from a number of West clubs.

[An Absolute Imposter]

56 minutes ago, Shanner said:

Remind me why only certain views should be represented again? There's no chance of anyone returning to the junior days so maybe it's time for people to stop parroting that line on here at every opportunity. The former Junior sides didn't sign up for the pyramid on the basis that they had to set aside their own interests and align unconditionally with a certain set of values. Every team from top to bottom in any league structure will ultimately act in their own interests above the interests of the pyramid FFS. 

Also, as an aside merely saying the words "progressive" and "ambitious" all the time does not endow the speaker or club they support with moral superiority or any sort of insight. 

Had to read this a few times.

I never used the words progressive or ambitious. Merely stated that if clubs don't want to be a part of the pyramid then they have the right to leave.

Surely if you sign up to something you should at the very least be committed to it. Yes I know a number of clubs felt pressurised to leave the juniors, but surely it makes more sense to try and work with what is there now rather than dream of the past. In all honesty for a majority of the clubs, has anything changed that much, its not as though clubs outwith a dozen or so ever need to worry themselves about Tier 5.

I was never anti-junior, grew up in an Ants household and went to Lok matches with my mates, but yes was pleased when West joined the pyramid.

Like I said its this constant bitching that grinds me and I'm desperate for West clubs to start climbing up the ladder would love to see Talbot and one day the Lok skelping teams in the LL. 

[FairWeatherFan]

31 minutes ago, Arthurlie1981 said:

Remember that all the clubs moved to the WOSFL as they had no where else to go at that time.

They could have stayed in the West Region. Junior football may well have ended up being Ayrshire, Central, East, North. As we've seen the North and Midlands are happy with the status quo or will still float the 'Central League' idea so the old East teams get away from the Highland League.

Its now a case of the "senior/pyramid' minded don't have anywhere else to go as the SFA or other Lowland area leagues aren't going to sanction another West league.