The dull dull dull John Swinney thread

[lichtgilphead]

1 hour ago, FFCinthearea said:

The low paid argument is a smoke and mirror policy.  45p a week, or no saving at all, so that the SNP can trumpet that they're making tax cuts for the less well off.

 

  

Your own figures show that someone in Sctland on a low salary (about £20K, for example) will pay £23 less than an rUK taxpayer. That's £23 in hard cash, not smoke and mirrors.

If the SNP were lying about making tax cuts for the less well off, I'm sure you would point it out

1 hour ago, CarrbridgeSaintee said:

Will Scottish Labour take over the SNP at Westminster and Holyrood? Westminster definitely.

For Holyrood, it’ll mostly depend on Operation Branchform.  The Holyrood election is still 2 years away.  There will be loads of twists and turns.

.The SNP aren't in power at Westminster, of course, and the branch office don't contest seats in rUK, so I'm not sure how they can 'definitely' take over Westminster.

At Holyrood, Scottish Labour might scrape together enough seats to go into coalition with their Tory & Lib Dem chums. Tax cuts for the rich. Hurrah!

[FFCinthearea]

2 minutes ago, lichtgilphead said:

Your own figures show that someone in Sctland on a low salary (about £20K, for example) will pay £23 less than an rUK taxpayer. That's £23 in hard cash, not smoke and mirrors.

If the SNP were lying about making tax cuts for the less well off, I'm sure you would point it out

.The SNP aren't in power at Westminster, of course, and the branch office don't contest seats in rUK, so I'm not sure how they can 'definitely' take over Westminster.

At Holyrood, Scottish Labour might scrape together enough seats to go into coalition with their Tory & Lib Dem chums. Tax cuts for the rich. Hurrah!

45p per week isn't exactly 'hard cash' , you can't even buy a can of Irn Bru for it.    They made a huge point of tax cuts which didn't really justify the paltry saving.    

[CarrbridgeSaintee]

3 minutes ago, lichtgilphead said:

Your own figures show that someone in Sctland on a low salary (about £20K, for example) will pay £23 less than an rUK taxpayer. That's £23 in hard cash, not smoke and mirrors.

If the SNP were lying about making tax cuts for the less well off, I'm sure you would point it out

.The SNP aren't in power at Westminster, of course, and the branch office don't contest seats in rUK, so I'm not sure how they can 'definitely' take over Westminster.

At Holyrood, Scottish Labour might scrape together enough seats to go into coalition with their Tory & Lib Dem chums. Tax cuts for the rich. Hurrah!

I don’t think Scottish Labour will take over Westminster either.

I said they’d take over the SNP at Westminster, and I believe they will.

[Bob in Denny]

Is it not Labour (Scottish Branch).......

[lichtgilphead]

32 minutes ago, CarrbridgeSaintee said:

I don’t think Scottish Labour will take over Westminster either.

I said they’d take over the SNP at Westminster, and I believe they will.

Ah, you meant overtake, rather than take over. It would help if you actually said what you meant.

[CarrbridgeSaintee]

5 minutes ago, lichtgilphead said:

Ah, you meant overtake, rather than take over. It would help if you actually said what you meant.

No, I meant take over

[A Diamond For Me]

The Branchform stuff will have an impact on the next Holyrood election, but by then we'll also be about 18 months into a Starmer-led government who will inherit an economic situation too weak to have many popular new initiatives while sticking within the neoliberal framework which they are so absolutely committed to remaining within.  Starmer's Labour have neither the baws nor the imagination to change course from the Tories in any meaningful way, and "more of the same but more competently" won't make for much of a honeymoon period.  They'll win a substantial majority by default, do feck all with that majority and leave Scottish Labour open to attacks from the SNP as they have to defend the London government.  Labour in Scotland have been making progress with the "two bad governments" line, but once they themselves are one of those bad governments again things could well get a bit easier for the SNP. 

[velo army]

On 05/05/2024 at 17:00, tamthebam said:

Clement Attlee was boring and bald and did alright. 

Came on to post this. I'm reading Atlee's biography right now and it makes me feel nostalgia for a time I never lived through, but man, having a prime minister who was dull, shy and had political convictions about making the lives of a'body more pleasant is exactly what I'm after right now.

I don't know what Swinney's political ideology is beyond indy, and it's not an inherently engaging or interesting ideology either. Hopefully he just does what everyone wants right now which is competent governance.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

38 minutes ago, velo army said:

Came on to post this. I'm reading Atlee's biography right now and it makes me feel nostalgia for a time I never lived through, but man, having a prime minister who was dull, shy and had political convictions about making the lives of a'body more pleasant is exactly what I'm after right now.

I don't know what Swinney's political ideology is beyond indy, and it's not an inherently engaging or interesting ideology either. Hopefully he just does what everyone wants right now which is competent governance.

You are right to be nostalgic as no current UK politician comes close to Attlee.  And oh how could contemporary Scotland do with a man of this stature, drive and intellect.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Johnston_(British_politician)#:~:text=Prime Minister Winston Churchill appointed,of the century....

[lichtgilphead]

3 hours ago, FFCinthearea said:

45p per week isn't exactly 'hard cash' , you can't even buy a can of Irn Bru for it.  

Barrs Irn Bru is currently £8.49  for 24 cans at Aldi. That's just over 35p per can.

Whilst I was unaware that tax cuts were measured in weekly irn bru consumption, it's nice to know that our low-paid taxpayers get free prescriptions, no student fees, a better-performing NHS and an extra can of irn bru per week compared with the low-paid rUK taxpayer, and will still have more disposable income.

[DrewDon]

Get in there and make it about you, Nicola, because exactly what Swinney needs right now is to be more closely associated with you and your leadership than he already is. 

[alta-pete]

1 hour ago, lichtgilphead said:

Barrs Irn Bru is currently £8.49  for 24 cans at Aldi. That's just over 35p per can.

Whilst I was unaware that tax cuts were measured in weekly irn bru consumption, it's nice to know that our low-paid taxpayers get free prescriptions, no student fees, a better-performing NHS and an extra can of irn bru per week compared with the low-paid rUK taxpayer, and will still have more disposable income.

Exactly the point the chap was making. You’re the one that steamed in with the ‘51% are better off’ headline yet that factually correct better offedness is actually a paltry margin. 

[lichtgilphead]

33 minutes ago, alta-pete said:

Exactly the point the chap was making. You’re the one that steamed in with the ‘51% are better off’ headline yet that factually correct better offedness is actually a paltry margin. 

These taxpayers are still better off financially, however, without even starting to take into account the other economic advantages I listed above.

Might I remind you that my initial (factually correct) reply was to @HulltoonDee's lie that "the SNP are taxing us to death"

Are you being "taxed to death" @alta-pete? Are you considering moving to rUK to escape the SNP's fatality-causing income tax system?

[scottsdad]

I'm paying nearly £2k more than if I lived in England. But I get a lot of that back in free tuition, prescriptions, lower house prices, etc. Plus, as a bonus, I don't live in England.

Can someone convert this in terms of irn bru cans?

[lichtgilphead]

4 minutes ago, scottsdad said:

I'm paying nearly £2k more than if I lived in England. But I get a lot of that back in free tuition, prescriptions, lower house prices, etc. Plus, as a bonus, I don't live in England.

Can someone convert this in terms of irn bru cans?

You are going to die from dehydration through being unable to keep your irn bru levels up to the amount required to maintain good health. 

That's how the evil SNP kill people through their evil 'let the poorer pay less tax' policy.

[scottsdad]

Genuinely, about 4 or 5 years ago I was contacted by a headhunter about a job in Nottingham. It was a no brainer for me - couldn't afford it. House prices trump taxes by a huge margin. I would be a lot worse off.

[strichener]

4 hours ago, lichtgilphead said:

Barrs Irn Bru is currently £8.49  for 24 cans at Aldi. That's just over 35p per can.

Whilst I was unaware that tax cuts were measured in weekly irn bru consumption, it's nice to know that our low-paid taxpayers get free prescriptions, no student fees, a better-performing NHS and an extra can of irn bru per week compared with the low-paid rUK taxpayer, and will still have more disposable income.

Didn't know that Aldi allowed you to pay in weekly installments.  You learn something new every day.

[alta-pete]

2 hours ago, lichtgilphead said:

These taxpayers are still better off financially, however, without even starting to take into account the other economic advantages I listed above.

Might I remind you that my initial (factually correct) reply was to @HulltoonDee's lie that "the SNP are taxing us to death"

Are you being "taxed to death" @alta-pete? Are you considering moving to rUK to escape the SNP's fatality-causing income tax system?

The point I was trying - but clearly failing - to make was that the hyperbole of 51% of the population being taxed less was of such marginal benefit that anyone other than the most politically minded might actually notice, such is it’s minuscule benefit. 

[Florentine_Pogen]

6 hours ago, velo army said:

Came on to post this. I'm reading Atlee's biography right now and it makes me feel nostalgia for a time I never lived through, but man, having a prime minister who was dull, shy and had political convictions about making the lives of a'body more pleasant is exactly what I'm after right now.

I don't know what Swinney's political ideology is beyond indy, and it's not an inherently engaging or interesting ideology either. Hopefully he just does what everyone wants right now which is competent governance.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/may/07/john-swinney-snp-leader-scotland-independence

[Wee Bully]

47 minutes ago, scottsdad said:

Genuinely, about 4 or 5 years ago I was contacted by a headhunter about a job in Nottingham. It was a no brainer for me - couldn't afford it. House prices trump taxes by a huge margin. I would be a lot worse off.

Absolutely - unless you are earning enormous amounts, no one is moving for a few grand a year. And if you are earning enormous amounts, it will be Monaco you leave for, not Carlisle. 

And of course, this is what we see through the “lived experience” of differential tax rates.