54_and_counting Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 4 minutes ago, IrishBhoy said: To be fair I didn’t say Gilmour would have been the one pressing Kroos, but what he could have done was play the role he normally plays for Scotland and find space to take the ball off the defence and pick a pass that gets us into the opponents half. Last night we had McGinn and McGregor trying to play from the edge of the 18 yard box and by the time they had attempted 2 or 3 passes Germany had the ball back. Yup absolute madness to pick two players like mcgregor and mctominay for that role last night, both are very poor at taking the ball under pressure and not panicking/losing the ball, He needed 3 in there and one absolutely had to be gilmour, Mcginn the other (who isnt the worst at taking the ball and driving with it either) and then one other who'd do the donkey work for them 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bogbrush1903 Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 1 minute ago, No_Problemo said: Not qualifying would mean we had been even less successful. It absolutely was humiliating, but given our form up until qualifying we would have been pretty likely to qualify for a 16 team Euro’s too - we’ll see if things pick up over the next two games. My hope is that we scraped the bottom of the barrel last night, to quote New Labour of 1997, "things can only get better" but for that to happen we must be more positive tactically. I said yesterday that Clarke went into his shell at Euro 2021 and again we saw that last night. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
54_and_counting Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 Just now, saint in exile said: The space out wide and in front of the back 3 was jaw droppingy naive It was really bad, its like the 3 centre halves were either too scared or told not to move from the middle and from being in line with the other two After 5 minutes or even the first goal, clarke or someone, even Robertson should have told tierney to step up and him, mcgregor and mctominay pretty much go man for man with the german attacking mid 3, kroos and andrich were never going to be the runners who'll break the lines so once havertz, gundogan, wirtz and musiala have their specific scotland counterparts it then cuts out a lot of options for the germans further back playing the ball 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JS_FFC Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 Just now, Bogbrush1903 said: My hope is that we scraped the bottom of the barrel last night, to quote New Labour of 1997, "things can only get better" but for that to happen we must be more positive tactically. I said yesterday that Clarke went into his shell at Euro 2021 and again we saw that last night. If there’s one tiny silver lining, I think the performance against Czech Republic last time could be chalked up to bad luck in both boxes and we were the better side which gave Clarke an excuse to go for more of the same. Last night was so bad that some changes are a complete necessity. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fletchers Saucy Manbun Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 28 minutes ago, saint in exile said: The space out wide and in front of the back 3 was jaw droppingy naive Looked like nine guys told to 'keep yer shape and jockey' at all costs, totally petrified. We were like a table football team. Clarke has to give the guys a lot more freedom in next two games. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peasy23 Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 1 hour ago, HoBNob said: Sorry but we'll never agree on this. On the first quoted post Gilmour would've been pressing Kroos? Whit? And Gilmour would've stopped us passed around in midfield? People are just making stuff up. I don't even think in that game last night that the choice was between Christie and Gilmour, it was probably between McGregor and Gilmour with the former preferred due to his leadership/organisational/apparent defensive skills. Pre Match that team looked fine, Che Adams was the obvious pick upfront, McTominay and McGinn are always going to be picked if fit. You're then left with 3 players fighting for two spots and I'd say that logically, Christie made the most sense. He's the best presser we have and the hope for me would've been that he could've disrupted Kronos from playing deep. That evidently didn't happen but the logic behind the selection is sound. You then have McGregor and Gilmour, and as noted previously I think McGregor is perceived to have a better defensive brain. And I think it's fucking daft we're talking about one player in midfield as being this colossus mistake when we still would've played Ralston at right back, Porteous at centre back and Angus Gunn still would've had poppadom hands. Last night we needed the players to play at the peak of there powers, and for some mentioned to play even above that, evidently didn't happen and with the form some of them are coming into the tournament, not surprising. We also could've done with Germany playing shite, and sadly that didn't happen. There were 3 changes from the team that beat Spain last year, Hendry for Hanley is an upgrade imo, while Ralston and Adams for Hickey and Dykes are downgrades. The rest of the team were miles off the level of performance they put in against Spain. That was Gunn's first really poor performance imo, should have saved the first one for sure. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekok Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 Lots of welcome reality in this thread. Taking a broader view I think anyone playing 3 /5 at the back at any level must have the players to pull it off, we don't. I know it let's us play both Robertson and Tierney, but risk / reward balance is wrong. On top of that RB the huge issue, for reasons we know. How about back 4 with Robertson and Teirney as FBs, surely one of them has the nous to play on right side. That way, they both play and we can shape up so opposition doesn't have ridiculous space out wide, as happened last night. On top of that we can have Gilmour added to midfield, rather than tying up 3CBs getting in each others way trying to decide whether to stick or twist against a single striker or even none. We moved to 3/5 to get best players starting, suggest back 4 for same reason, plus solution to other problems as a bonus. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 3 minutes ago, peasy23 said: There were 3 changes from the team that beat Spain last year, Hendry for Hanley is an upgrade imo, while Ralston and Adams for Hickey and Dykes are downgrades. The rest of the team were miles off the level of performance they put in against Spain. That was Gunn's first really poor performance imo, should have saved the first one for sure. Hanley at the time? No, not even close. Hanley right now probably. Are you comparing him to Hanley's current level? Hanley was our best defender at the time we were beating Spain at Hampden. All three of those changes are downgrades, although Ralston for Hickey is the biggest of them. Gunn should 100% have saved the first. He probably should have saved the 5th too though it was nearer the corner. He put a full hand on both. The Porteous red card and penalty 3rd goal also come from him parrying a relatively simple but admittedly close range header straight back into the middle of goal, he should be pushing that wide if he can't hold it. He's also badly at fault for the one where the offside saved us which would have been the 5th before the actual 5th. It was a horrible game for him. I'm not sure it's his first poor performance though. He's not actually been tested all that much for Scotland and sat out most of our bigger games since qualifying. He wasn't good in Amsterdam either and had a bit of a horror show in the Championship playoff semi final for Norwich at Leeds. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 49 minutes ago, saint in exile said: The space out wide and in front of the back 3 was jaw droppingy naive That was the most striking issue. I'm not particularly into tactics and formations as bad become the norm these days, but even I realised that. There was a few high camera shots and you could see practically the whole team in a block, 20 x 20 in the middle of the pitch. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 (edited) 7 minutes ago, ekok said: Lots of welcome reality in this thread. Taking a broader view I think anyone playing 3 /5 at the back at any level must have the players to pull it off, we don't. I know it let's us play both Robertson and Tierney, but risk / reward balance is wrong. On top of that RB the huge issue, for reasons we know. How about back 4 with Robertson and Teirney as FBs, surely one of them has the nous to play on right side. That way, they both play and we can shape up so opposition doesn't have ridiculous space out wide, as happened last night. On top of that we can have Gilmour added to midfield, rather than tying up 3CBs getting in each others way trying to decide whether to stick or twist against a single striker or even none. We moved to 3/5 to get best players starting, suggest back 4 for same reason, plus solution to other problems as a bonus. Tierney's been a functional right back for us in the past but it negates a lot of the things he does best like getting forward and getting crosses in on the overlap. Robertson played half a game there in Denmark once, it didn't last long for a reason. I'm also not convinced any of our centre backs are good enough to play as a pair at this level. Edited June 15 by Skyline Drifter 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby_Doo Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 Ever since Clarke was Killie manager, he has quite rightly espoused the view that what fans want above all else is that their team is competitive. Whilst we don't want to accept defeat, it's easier to do so if you are simply beaten by a better team. Our biggest failing last night was we weren't competitive. That needs fixed before anything else. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewanandmoreagain Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 1 minute ago, Sergeant Wilson said: That was the most striking issue. I'm not particularly into tactics and formations as bad become the norm these days, but even I realised that. There was a few high camera shots and you could see practically the whole team in a block, 20 x 20 in the middle of the pitch. McCoist mentioned this ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Ewanandmoreagain said: McCoist mentioned this ! I was in the pub and didn't hear it. I'll take being called a w****r on the Brewdog thread, but I won't stand for McCoist comparisons. Edited June 15 by Sergeant Wilson 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoBNob Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 21 minutes ago, peasy23 said: There were 3 changes from the team that beat Spain last year, Hendry for Hanley is an upgrade imo, while Ralston and Adams for Hickey and Dykes are downgrades. The rest of the team were miles off the level of performance they put in against Spain. That was Gunn's first really poor performance imo, should have saved the first one for sure. Aye, my memory isn't the best but I don't remember people moaning post match on that thread that Christie had started over Gilmour. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Aldo Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 (edited) Not quite as raging as I was last night but, for some reason, I decided to watch the highlights again. Not going to go through the whole team as we were rotten all over the park. However... Ralston is nowhere near good enough for this level. Can't quite put my finger on what it is - he just has no standout qualities as a footballer. Even in a Celtic team that strolls 99% of their domestic games he never looks anything more than average. Grant Hanley has been a liability for over a decade now. Does okay when some jobber country is shelling long balls at his massive heid but against any team with the slightest ounce of quality he's miles and miles out of his depth. Gunn was poor last night but when the alternatives are Liam Kelly or Zander Clark, he's never going to get dropped (not that I think he should tbf). However, some decent goalkeeping competition wouldn't go amiss. Mcgregor had one of his worst games in a Scotland shirt last night but I'm not having that he's not good enough. He's an excellent player who had a rotten night along with everyone else. As for the Switzerland game, I'd be sticking in Mckenna for Porteous and maybe even Cooper (or a fridge freezer) for Hanley. Anyone of the midfielders last night could get dropped. Adams will probably remain up front as he didn't really do too much wrong last night - he didn't get the chance to as we punted the ball at him aimlessly. Other than denting morale, last night doesn't change things in terms of Switzerland and Hungary being the ones to beat. We just need to hope we can do that while neither of them take anything off the Germans. Edited June 15 by Ron Aldo 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross. Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 8 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said: I was in the pub and didn't hear it. I'll take being called a w****r on the Brewdog thread, but I won't stand for McCoist comparisons. One of you consistently talks absolute fucking bollocks and is clearly out of depth when it comes to football, and the other hasn’t, to my knowledge, managed the team with the second biggest budget in the Scottish game to defeats by the likes of Stirling Albion, Queen of the South and Forfar Athletic. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge of allan bairn Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 (edited) To not have have one shot at goal, not on target, on goal in 90 minutes is absolutely criminal. Clarke has rightly had much praise for what he has done with the squad in the past 5 years but he has to take full responsibility for that performance on the chin. We weren't set up to attack or defend, I'm not even sure how he achieved it, despite weeks and months of preparation we weren't at it from the first minute. In the first minute or two we could all tell it wasn't working. We should have been more compact initially and as the German manager himself said more physical and better press. That was probably in the top 3 worst ever Scotland performances I've seen - Dutch play off away, Leveins 11 men behind the ball and tonight, the biggest ever Euros opening day game hiding in history (and it could have been more). I appreciate we have key injuries but the biggest issue was with the set up/formation and team selection. The red card didn't help obviously, but again it comes down to terrible decision making by Porteous, a two footed challenge what was he thinking? Not good enough in any game never mind a game of this magnitude, thankfully he won't play again this tournament. Also, what was with the set piece strategy of McGinn standing in the German goals when the free kick was taken then running back? I know Clarke and our set piece coach were arguing during the game, but what on earth were these stupid gimmicks for when we should have just been getting the basics right? The set up better be more positive in the next game or the good will Clarke has in the bank will be gone. Edited June 15 by bridge of allan bairn 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartsOfficialMoaner Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 43 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said: Tierney's been a functional right back for us in the past but it negates a lot of the things he does best like getting forward and getting crosses in on the overlap. Robertson played half a game there in Denmark once, it didn't last long for a reason. I'm also not convinced any of our centre backs are good enough to play as a pair at this level. This what I think as well, we play 3 centre halves because 2 isn't good enough. We don't have 1 good centre half. They are okay but not Champions League level. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarapoa Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 (edited) 57 minutes ago, bridge of allan bairn said: That was probably in the top 3 worst ever Scotland performances I've seen - Dutch play off away, Leveins 11 men behind the ball and tonight, the biggest ever Euros opening day game hiding in history (and it could have been more Prague under Levein not even in top ten for me - it was a relatively solid performance against a good side. Only Amsterdam and “the night a team died” in Lisbon early 90s come close to the ineptitude and lack of guts on show last night. EDIT - completely forgot about Kazakhstan! it remains to be seen just how good the Germans are, but we made them look flawless and I suspect that will unravel for them. Edited June 15 by tarapoa 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JS_FFC Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 3 minutes ago, tarapoa said: Prague under Levein not even in top ten for me - it was a relatively solid performance against a good side. Only Amsterdam and “the night a team died” in Lisbon early 90s come close to the ineptitude and lack of guts on show last night. it remains to be seen just how good the Germans are, but we made them look flawless and I suspect that will unravel for them. There are countless draws and defeats to pot 4/5/6 teams over the past 20 years that are worse still imo. Kazakhstan away Numerous dropped points to Lithuania, Georgia, Macedonia Belarus home under Walter Faroe Islands under Berti 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.