Will we qualify out the groups

[Lyle Lanley]

Think it’ll go down to the Hungary game to see whoever gets third. 

[ogoftheskye]

Albania's performance v Italy tonight was enviable was it not? #WilileMillerVoice

[Skyline Drifter]

4 hours ago, GordonS said:

Yup, we were excellent in 92. It's undoubtedly the high water mark for our national team. We could genuinely have been 5-0 up against Germany before they scored. I think they'd only had one shot on target when they went 2-0 up. Anything could have happened in the second half.

In 1996 England's whole tournament potentially pivoted on our penalty. They'd drawn with Switzerland in the opening game and knew they needed to beat us before facing the Dutch. If that penalty goes in there's a good chance we go on an win, or at least draw; we go through and they go out. Instead, the penalty gets saved, they run up the pitch and Gascoigne scores that goal, leading to the myth of England's great summer. A sliding doors moment. 

I have no memory of battering the Germans in 92 but I watched it on a relatively small tv in a pub in Rose Street, Edinburgh having come out of an accountancy training day (early I think, what time did it kick off). I don't think I had a very good view from vague memory. I remember we were unlucky to lose but not much else about the game.

I take the point about McAllister's penalty but if they'd gone on to draw the game and then beat the Dutch anyway nothing would have changed. They'd still have won the group but we'd have gone through at the expense of the Dutch. Of course I take the point that without the momentum of having beaten us maybe they don't come out and batter the Dutch but it's a reach to suggest the penalty changed their entire fate. In fact even if they'd lost the game and then beat the Dutch heavily they'd have gone through, albeit as runners up to us instead.

[MarkoRaj]

6 hours ago, ogoftheskye said:

Albania's performance v Italy tonight was enviable was it not? #WilileMillerVoice

If Germany had gifted us a goal in 23 seconds that would have been ideal yes

But apart from that they just sat deep and invited pressure same as us.

If Italy had been as clinical (efficient?) as the Germans it could have been a similar scoreline

[nate]

It’s a similar situation to Italia 90. Devastated (fans and players) after an opening defeat,the team came out for the second match against Sweden and gave it everything,winning 2-1. They looked unrecognisable from the disjointed lot who played in the opening match. That’s what needs to happen on Wed if we’re to remain in the Euros.
Which Scotland will turn up, though? If it’s the v Spain/Holland version a point or more is gettable. If it’s the version we’ve seen in the last few matches then another humiliation is entirely possible. If it’s the version that has shipped 26 goals in the last 10 games then a decent Swiss side are going to pump us. Clarke’s skills of organisation and motivation will never be needed more than it will be on Wed.

[BFTD]

1 hour ago, nate said:

It’s a similar situation to Italia 90. Devastated (fans and players) after an opening defeat,the team came out for the second match against Sweden and gave it everything,winning 2-1. They looked unrecognisable from the disjointed lot who played in the opening match. That’s what needs to happen on Wed if we’re to remain in the Euros.
Which Scotland will turn up, though? If it’s the v Spain/Holland version a point or more is gettable. If it’s the version we’ve seen in the last few matches then another humiliation is entirely possible. If it’s the version that has shipped 26 goals in the last 10 games then a decent Swiss side are going to pump us. Clarke’s skills of organisation and motivation will never be needed more than it will be on Wed.

The big difference between this and the Italy 1990 game is that we were all over Costa Rica but didn't create enough chances, and squandered the ones we did make. Incredibly frustrating and humiliating, but you could see how relatively small improvements could lead to a better result against Sweden and (maybe) Brazil.

Germany was a fucking nightmare where we did nothing right and were thoroughly outclassed. We need a total volte face now to have a chance in the next two games; we know this Scotland side can do it, but it's been quite some time since they've put in a performance and got a good result; maybe the 3-0 game against Cyprus last September? That's eleven games ago now  

[GordonS]

9 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

I have no memory of battering the Germans in 92 but I watched it on a relatively small tv in a pub in Rose Street, Edinburgh having come out of an accountancy training day (early I think, what time did it kick off). I don't think I had a very good view from vague memory. I remember we were unlucky to lose but not much else about the game.

I take the point about McAllister's penalty but if they'd gone on to draw the game and then beat the Dutch anyway nothing would have changed. They'd still have won the group but we'd have gone through at the expense of the Dutch. Of course I take the point that without the momentum of having beaten us maybe they don't come out and batter the Dutch but it's a reach to suggest the penalty changed their entire fate. In fact even if they'd lost the game and then beat the Dutch heavily they'd have gone through, albeit as runners up to us instead.

Five minutes of highlights of the 1992 game, including a bit of the post-match analysis, give a pretty good picture. Germany hit the post twice but by then the game was wide open and both sides had loads of chances. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/videos/cjll0zlwg34o

I did say "potentially" about England, but if they don't have that cathartic moment of the amazing goal and win against us, I'm not sure they'd have had the momentum to go on and beat the Netherlands, or do so emphatically. It changed their entire mood around the competition, which until then had been dominated by the Hong Kong antics. Even if they had won they'd have played France at Anfield and that would have been tougher than Spain (who were pretty shite) at Wembley.

[FK1Bairn]

I've posted it elsewhere but I just can't see us getting six points from the next two games. 

In terms of the Switzerland game on Wednesday, we go into that short on confidence while they go in knowing that 3 points puts then through in 2nd place at worst. Realistically Germany will beat Hungary before we kick off v Switzerland meaning the Swiss will know they need to beat us to be able to rest up in their final game v Germany. They'll come out the traps firing early doors, whether we have the balls to withstand that remains to be seen but I'm not confident in the slightest.

[HuttonDressedAsLahm]

19 minutes ago, FK1Bairn said:

I've posted it elsewhere but I just can't see us getting six points from the next two games. 

In terms of the Switzerland game on Wednesday, we go into that short on confidence while they go in knowing that 3 points puts then through in 2nd place at worst. Realistically Germany will beat Hungary before we kick off v Switzerland meaning the Swiss will know they need to beat us to be able to rest up in their final game v Germany. They'll come out the traps firing early doors, whether we have the balls to withstand that remains to be seen but I'm not confident in the slightest.

Don’t think we’ll beat them either, but they’ll know a draw is enough for them to come 2nd.  Our GD makes it practically impossible to overcome the Swiss unless we win.

I want Hungary to take a leathering.  Helps with confidence (or lack of it) going into the last game, but also might contextualise Friday somewhat.

[Blue Oktober]

Nein

[BFTD]

1 hour ago, HuttonDressedAsLahm said:

Don’t think we’ll beat them either, but they’ll know a draw is enough for them to come 2nd.  Our GD makes it practically impossible to overcome the Swiss unless we win.

I want Hungary to take a leathering.  Helps with confidence (or lack of it) going into the last game, but also might contextualise Friday somewhat.

Unfortunately, I'd imagine that the Swiss will be quite keen to have six points on the board before they have to play Germany, just to nullify any outside chance of them ending up in third place. Doesn't mean that it'll be a walkover for them; they're good, but still a level below the sides who might actually win the tournament. Don't forget they also made an arse of a very straightforward qualifying group.

They'll think they've got nothing to fear from us, but if we can put in the kind of performance we know the team's capable of, the game's still anyone's.

[Butters Scotch]

Switzerland looked a better side than Hungary but then then Hungary themselves have pumped the likes of England in recent times whilst Switzerland have struggled against a lot of weak opponents in their qualifying group. Ourselves couldn't play any worse than we did Friday either, football can turn very quickly so I believe we have to go for the win here and take the game to the Swiss. Not be scared to commit men forward and attack. 

No chance we should rely on us having to beat Hungary in the last fixture to sneak in as one of the best third place teams, that'll end in glorious failure as it typically does! 

[BFTD]

1 minute ago, Butters Scotch said:

Switzerland looked a better side than Hungary but then then Hungary themselves have pumped the likes of England in recent times whilst Switzerland have struggled against a lot of weak opponents in their qualifying group. Ourselves couldn't play any worse than we did Friday either, football can turn very quickly so I believe we have to go for the win here and take the game to the Swiss. Not be scared to commit men forward and attack. 

No chance we should rely on us having to beat Hungary in the last fixture to sneak in as one of the best third place teams, that'll end in glorious failure as it typically does! 

Ooh hoo hoo, hopefully that won't be challenge that's accepted!  

Maybe we should do a Top Five for terrible Scotland performances. That was the worst I remember since we lost 6-0 to the Netherlands; I think the 2-2 draw with the Faeroes was worse because it literally looked like an amateur kickabout on a public park between players who'd barely met before, and we absolutely mugged the home team for a point.

[GordonS]

2 hours ago, BFTD said:

Maybe we should do a Top Five for terrible Scotland performances. That was the worst I remember since we lost 6-0 to the Netherlands; I think the 2-2 draw with the Faeroes was worse because it literally looked like an amateur kickabout on a public park between players who'd barely met before, and we absolutely mugged the home team for a point.

0-3 in Kazakhstan is surely number one.

I thought the 1-1 against the Faroes in 1999 was even worse than the 2-2. At least in that game there was a good fightback. We were rank throughout the 1-1 draw and Matt Elliott got sent of for being a bellend.

[BFTD]

17 minutes ago, GordonS said:

0-3 in Kazakhstan is surely number one.

I thought the 1-1 against the Faroes in 1999 was even worse than the 2-2. At least in that game there was a good fightback. We were rank throughout the 1-1 draw and Matt Elliott got sent of for being a bellend.

I forgot about Kazakhstan. I had it on at work and had to serve a couple of customers right after kick off. By the time I came back, we were 2-0 down  

[GordonS]

3 minutes ago, BFTD said:

I forgot about Kazakhstan. I had it on at work and had to serve a couple of customers right after kick off. By the time I came back, we were 2-0 down  

Wild to think it was only 5 years ago, a lot of the players involved are in the squad now, and yet we're a couple of decent results from doing something no Scotland team has ever done.

We've come a long way.

[gannonball]

Georgia deserves a mention too. Plenty teams have lost there but the game was meaningless to them and they played a 17 and 16 year old iirc.

[DC92]

I'd say results in the other groups so far have slightly boosted the chances of 3 points and a crap goal difference being enough to scrape through if we finish 3rd. Outside of our group, the big nations have all won so far and none of the others have picked up more than a point.

A Croatia/Albania draw on Wednesday would be handy as, unless they beat Spain and Italy respectively in the last games, that would mean the 3rd place team in that group gets no more than 2 points.

 

England getting at least 7 points and at least one of Serbia v Slovenia or Denmark v Serbia being a draw would also cap the 3rd place team at 2 points in that group.

 

A Poland/Austria draw and them not beating France or Netherlands is another avenue.

[kennie makevin]

22 hours ago, BFTD said:

Unfortunately, I'd imagine that the Swiss will be quite keen to have six points on the board before they have to play Germany, just to nullify any outside chance of them ending up in third place. Doesn't mean that it'll be a walkover for them; they're good, but still a level below the sides who might actually win the tournament. Don't forget they also made an arse of a very straightforward qualifying group.

They'll think they've got nothing to fear from us, but if we can put in the kind of performance we know the team's capable of, the game's still anyone's.

 

 

We need to put in the kind of performance we suspect we're not capable of to stand a chance. Friday night was the performance that this team is capable of. Some on these forums tried to gently warn of the possibility of a hammering only to be swept aside by a tidal wave of delusional hysteria. Let's just hope we at least give the Swiss a bit of a game. That's probably going to be as good as it gets.

Edited June 17 by kennie makevin

[2426255]

35 minutes ago, DC92 said:

I'd say results in the other groups so far have slightly boosted the chances of 3 points and a crap goal difference being enough to scrape through if we finish 3rd. Outside of our group, the big nations have all won so far and none of the others have picked up more than a point.

A Croatia/Albania draw on Wednesday would be handy as, unless they beat Spain and Italy respectively in the last games, that would mean the 3rd place team in that group gets no more than 2 points.

 

England getting at least 7 points and at least one of Serbia v Slovenia or Denmark v Serbia being a draw would also cap the 3rd place team at 2 points in that group.

 

A Poland/Austria draw and them not beating France or Netherlands is another avenue.

I'm not even looking at that unless I absolutely have to.