What is the point of labour ?

[StellarHibee]

17 minutes ago, ScotiaNostra said:

maybe your right, when the SNP grow a set and offer some reality rather than the never never at the moment. When they think about how independence really can be achieved even if that means a broader Indy coalition. I will definitely review what I think now

Lets see what happens

The reality is, there is nothing they can do. Some tory judge said "no" and that's basically the end of it until Westminster grants permission for a referendum. Something that will never ever happen again following the result of the first one that was nowhere near as comfortable a win as they thought it would be.

Every seat in Holyrood and every Scottish MP seat at Westminster could be SNP and it still wouldn't make a blind bit of difference. We're a colony and our voice simply doesn't count for anything whatsoever.

[Granny Danger]

1 hour ago, StellarHibee said:

Labour will make it impossible for the SNP to back them, just as they did in 79. Hoping it will have the same kind of impact. The SNP will demand a referendum, Labour will simply refuse to budge. Keir Starmer may be a power hungry sociopath, but considering where he sits politically, he'd be quite content with another 5 years of tory government which they could then use to beat the SNP over the head with. And we're just stupid enough to fall for it, again.

If the SNP were to back a minority Labour government without demanding a referendum in return we are fucked anyway.

[tamthebam]

In regard to the A9 upgrade the money that was going to be used for that went on Edinburgh's trams, a Labour council proposal that the SNP were originally going to scrap before the trams were forced through by Labour and Lib Dems in the Scottish Parliament.

In regard to the Labour Party at present they don't really offer me anything. I thought Blair was a bit of a right wing shyster but his first cabinet still had the odd decent principled politician like Robin Cook in it. I don't get that from this lot.

[StellarHibee]

5 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

If the SNP were to back a minority Labour government without demanding a referendum in return we are fucked anyway.

Well yes, so naturally they would demand one. Labour wouldn't budge though, making them impossible to back in a hung parliament scenario. The tories get back in again and the British Media goes all in on the SNP.

[SlipperyP]

I think if Labour went into a coalition with the SNP it would be political suicide for them.

Imaging letting the Jocks Separatists hav a say in our country.

[Granny Danger]

3 hours ago, StellarHibee said:

Well yes, so naturally they would demand one. Labour wouldn't budge though, making them impossible to back in a hung parliament scenario. The tories get back in again and the British Media goes all in on the SNP.

Starmer is too desperate to be PM to let that happen.

[StellarHibee]

14 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

Starmer is too desperate to be PM to let that happen.

I don't think he is. The only thing he's concerned with is maintaining the status quo at all costs. His party is a false alternative, so he isn't going to care too much if the tories remain in power. There's zero chance he'll be doing any deals with the SNP under any scenario.

[Boo Khaki]

29 minutes ago, StellarHibee said:

I don't think he is. The only thing he's concerned with is maintaining the status quo at all costs. His party is a false alternative, so he isn't going to care too much if the tories remain in power. There's zero chance he'll be doing any deals with the SNP under any scenario.

As already mentioned, I acknowledge the prospect of Starmer playing for a 2nd GE to try to secure a majority or as near as damn it, but I think that's extremely risky if the hung parliament is largely due to a collapse in Tory vote. If Starmer can't win the first time around, I can't see many English voters who didn't feel they could back him the first time suddenly running to the polls to vote for him the second. It's an inherently Conservative electorate. Being unwilling to elect the Tories is not the same as being willing to elect Labour, and if Sunak/whoever comprehensively loses the first GE, it's a given Starmer will be up against a different Tory leader by the time the 2nd GE is held.

[Leith Green]

14 hours ago, Salt n Vinegar said:

Meanwhile....

https://news.sky.com/story/stonewall-criticises-labour-over-inhumane-medical-diagnosis-plan-for-transgender-people-12926723

"Leading LGBTQ+ charity Stonewall has criticised Labour after the party insisted it would keep the medical diagnosis element of trans people having their gender legally recognised."

Next!

Wonder how many Scottish Labour policies Starmer, Dodds et al have to pull before the branch office in Glasgow realise their trousers were pulled down some time ago?

I am sure that Anas Sarwar will respond as confidently on this one as he did on the 2 child benefit  cap.....................

[Boo Khaki]

Hilarious that some sources are describing this as a 'rift' between Scottish Labour and Labour, yet the SNP is always one amorphous whole and any hint of disagreement or division is a 'party tearing itself apart' etc 

Anything to perpetuate the myth that SLab is in any way an autonomous entity.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

18 hours ago, orfc said:

8 years of Sturgeonism that's ended with no new ferries, no A9 upgrade, no smaller class sizes etc but a criminal investigation into the people at the top. It's a low bar, more of a challenge to limbo dancers than high jumpers

8 years of trying to soften the worst excesses of austerity would be my take.

 

[KirkieRR]

The A9 upgrade is a daft idea. What's the point of LEZ zones if we're increasing road capacity? Here, the usual SNP incompetence has at leasted helped a little in achieving environmental targets, albeit not much.

 

 

[DA Baracus]

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/23680371.uk-was-never-meant-union-equal-partners-says-labour-peer/

[Granny Danger]

21 minutes ago, DA Baracus said:

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/23680371.uk-was-never-meant-union-equal-partners-says-labour-peer/

I’m impressed that he stayed coherent sober long enough to structure a complete sentence.  Well done Georgie.

[Boo Khaki]

Why on earth does anyone still pay any attention to anything Foulkes says?

I mean, it's quite amusing that he's become the political equivalent of the embarrassing, loudmouth, half-mad granny that sits in the corner at funeral wakes making racist comments and slagging off the deceased, but he's also just as sad and mortifying.

I can't see the political capital in picking up anything he says and trying to wield it to make a point. It's nothing that isn't readily apparent anyway.

[Suspect Device]

2 hours ago, KirkieRR said:

The A9 upgrade is a daft idea. What's the point of LEZ zones if we're increasing road capacity? Here, the usual SNP incompetence has at leasted helped a little in achieving environmental targets, albeit not much.

 

 

 

Surely the two aren't linked. The LEZ are primarily for air quality rather than emissions (and to encourage public transport in towns)

The A9 dualling is more about road safety, surely? Also, the transport options are shit for travel outside the central belt.

[alta-pete]

2 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

I’m impressed that he stayed coherent sober long enough to structure a complete sentence.  Well done Georgie.

He’s not wrong though. 

[Billy Jean King]

On 25/07/2023 at 16:02, LovaMan Bairn said:

The bit in bold.  i'm currently looking out my front window and can see a new Cal Mac ferrie that was put into servive in June 2022.  So this point is incorrect.

Cal Mac have 4 new ferries delivered within the timescale mentioned. SNPbaaaaad though trumps the actual facts every time

[O'Kelly Isley III]

2 hours ago, Boo Khaki said:

Why on earth does anyone still pay any attention to anything Foulkes says?

I mean, it's quite amusing that he's become the political equivalent of the embarrassing, loudmouth, half-mad granny that sits in the corner at funeral wakes making racist comments and slagging off the deceased, but he's also just as sad and mortifying.

I can't see the political capital in picking up anything he says and trying to wield it to make a point. It's nothing that isn't readily apparent anyway.

As long as the Labour Party allows this splenetic buffoon to publicly represent them then of course we should pay complete attention.

And it's important also because although Foulkes' views on Scottish politics might be assumed to be his alone that would be a mistake, because they almost certainly represent the thoughts of many Labour apparatchiks, if not necessarily voters, throughout Scotland.  Dinosaurs they may be, but they are not extinct.

[Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo]

3 hours ago, DA Baracus said:

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/23680371.uk-was-never-meant-union-equal-partners-says-labour-peer/