What is the point of labour ?

[Granny Danger]

Early days but the stripping of the winter fuel allowance, a likely increase in taxes and a dose of austerity will be seen as a huge betrayal by many voters who went back to the Labour fold.

The winter fuel allowance issue could have been handled better, I’m sure many would see the merits of withdrawing it from wealthy pensioners who don’t need it if it could be guaranteed that pensioners on the margins would not also suffer.

I anticipate a whole bunch of stories emerging over the winter months of people suffering as a result and ‘eat or heat’ choice’s dominating the news.

Edited August 26 by Granny Danger

[coprolite]

On 25/08/2024 at 03:36, GordonS said:

David Cameron commenced the Equality Act 2010. He legislated for gay marriage. He increased spending on foreign aid to 0.7% of GDP, putting that in legislation and not tying it to dodgy self-serving projects in more developed countries as it is now. He massively increased investment in renewable energy and kick-started all sorts of green initiatives. He allowed a Scottish independence referendum when it probably cost him votes in England. He hugely increased the minimum wage.

Labour have absolutely no promises on greenhouse gas emissions. Wes Streeting's ban on puberty blockers for adolescents - which was put through parliament in recess so it couldn't be scrutinised or stopped - was a knee-jerk reaction that the BMA heavily criticised and shows their disinterest in equalities. All Labour are doing on the minimum wage is bringing under 21s up to the full level. The new FCDO spending projections include more cuts to foreign aid, from 0.58% of GDP down to 0.5%. They've absolutely ruled out an independence referendum or giving that power to the Scottish Parliament, and they're breaking the devolution settlement and the Barnett formula by spending in Scotland over the head of the Scottish Government. They cut the Scottish block grant mid-year, the first time that's happened since devolution began.

It's not hyperbole to compare Cameron's government to the current Labour government and ask whether they're even coming up to his level.

These are fair points. Labour have agreed public sector pay rises (still below inflation) where Cameron's government cut the public sector and froze wages. There's a difference on public spending. 

[GordonS]

28 minutes ago, coprolite said:

These are fair points. Labour have agreed public sector pay rises (still below inflation) where Cameron's government cut the public sector and froze wages. There's a difference on public spending. 

Obviously there are plenty of ways in which Cameron sucked, I was picking highlights. But on public sector pay, he took over two years after the world market economy came close to collapse and entire countries were teetering on the brink, while Labour have come in at the back of a period of high inflation. It may be that Labour ends up being worse than Cameron's government in real terms.

Cameron's spending on public services was pretty brutal, but among the first things the new Chancellor did was cut public spending by £5 billion in this year and £20 billion next year. So we'll see.

[strichener]

3 hours ago, coprolite said:

These are fair points. Labour have agreed public sector pay rises (still below inflation) where Cameron's government cut the public sector and froze wages. There's a difference on public spending. 

What measure of inflation are you using here?  All the pay increases that I have seen recently for the public sector have been above inflation.

[coprolite]

30 minutes ago, strichener said:

What measure of inflation are you using here?  All the pay increases that I have seen recently for the public sector have been above inflation.

You’re right, for most of the deals 

What I was trying to get at was that the pay rises haven’t reversed much of the erosion in pay levels over the last dozen years or so from pay restraint/ pay freezes.

technically the train drivers deal was below inflation for the two historical years that it covered. But all three years are above current inflation. 

[Cheese]

 

[MazzyStar]

7 minutes ago, Cheese said:

 

£2.75 for each person. That’ll go a long way. 

[welshbairn]

5 million Taka sounds better.

[BFTD]

15 minutes ago, Cheese said:

Yeah, that's not much of a brag, there.

You can't see the replies without being logged in - I'm guessing there'll be a bunch of outrage at BRITTISH! money being spent on furriners?

[Cheese]

25 minutes ago, BFTD said:

Yeah, that's not much of a brag, there.

You can't see the replies without being logged in - I'm guessing there'll be a bunch of outrage at BRITTISH! money being spent on furriners?

Tbf the replies are just 'wtf, this is less than a Tesco's meal deal each you cretins'

[BFTD]

2 hours ago, Cheese said:

Tbf the replies are just 'wtf, this is less than a Tesco's meal deal each you cretins'

There's hope for us yet.

[BFTD]

2 hours ago, Sheas_cake said:

Labour have handled the Winter Fuel Allowance issue particularly badly resulting in it being blown entirely out of proportion to the extent that the media is now full of pish about freezing pensioners and allowed right wing weirdos to share endless memes about pensioners being sacrificed for immigrants. Did they re-employ John McTernan?

The previous government actively worked towards feeding the "imergants steal from BRITTISH! veteran pensioners" bullshit, so you have to wonder if Labour were taking notes.

[Theyellowbox]

20 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

Early days but the stripping of the winter fuel allowance, a likely increase in taxes and a dose of austerity will be seen as a huge betrayal by many voters who went back to the Labour fold.

The winter fuel allowance issue could have been handled better, I’m sure many would see the merits of withdrawing it from wealthy pensioners who don’t need it if it could be guaranteed that pensioners on the margins would not also suffer.

I anticipate a whole bunch of stories emerging over the winter months of people suffering as a result and ‘eat or heat’ choice’s dominating the news.

Is it though? I think it was pretty well trailed by Labour that the country was broke and that the finances weren't there to do everything they would want to do. I kind of see the winter fuel payments and the other austerity measures as being Labour doing more or less what they warned they'd need to do.

I'm sure there will be a portion of the pensioners negatively impacted that do need that cash, but the vast vast majority who will lose it do not need it and no doubt we will be fed only the horror stories in the winter and not that pensioner x had to take a slight downgrade on their cruise this year.

Labour know that now is the time they can make these unpopular decisions and get away with it. Reality is that the UK is broken financially and socially and I'd rather Labour ripped off the plaster now and set about fixing it, than take the Tory tact of burry the heads and start a culture war.

My guess is that we will be fed a few months of how broke we actually are and then when things do start to pick up post winter, Labour will claim it is due to their policies.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

8 hours ago, Sheas_cake said:

Labour have handled the Winter Fuel Allowance issue particularly badly resulting in it being blown entirely out of proportion to the extent that the media is now full of pish about freezing pensioners and allowed right wing weirdos to share endless memes about pensioners being sacrificed for immigrants. Did they re-employ John McTernan?

 

This stuff is flooding FB right now - often shared by people who should know better.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

37 minutes ago, Theyellowbox said:

Is it though? I think it was pretty well trailed by Labour that the country was broke and that the finances weren't there to do everything they would want to do. I kind of see the winter fuel payments and the other austerity measures as being Labour doing more or less what they warned they'd need to do.

I'm sure there will be a portion of the pensioners negatively impacted that do need that cash, but the vast vast majority who will lose it do not need it and no doubt we will be fed only the horror stories in the winter and not that pensioner x had to take a slight downgrade on their cruise this year.

Labour know that now is the time they can make these unpopular decisions and get away with it. Reality is that the UK is broken financially and socially and I'd rather Labour ripped off the plaster now and set about fixing it, than take the Tory tact of burry the heads and start a culture war.

My guess is that we will be fed a few months of how broke we actually are and then when things do start to pick up post winter, Labour will claim it is due to their policies.

 

So why attack Flynn and Swinney for saying there was an £18billion black hole in the finances?

They only ever said they were not sure what the finances were - another blatant lie.

[Theyellowbox]

6 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

So why attack Flynn and Swinney for saying there was an £18billion black hole in the finances?

They only ever said they were not sure what the finances were - another blatant lie.

Because they knew what they were saying was true, but didnt want the people to hear it from anyone but them post election.  That the SNP called it out first was an annoyance to them and their whole strategy of say little but let others fill in the blanks of bad news.

[Granny Danger]

2 hours ago, Theyellowbox said:

II'm sure there will be a portion of the pensioners negatively impacted that do need that cash,

 

Yeah there will be, a fairly high portion, exactly the sort of people Labour should be protecting.

But if you’re the sort of person who is happy with the ‘they’ll always be casualties’ philosophy then I suppose it doesn’t matter.

[Salt n Vinegar]

On the basis that it's always good to include some positive news, Starmer could end his speech with a "but hey, it's not all doom and gloom... I, for one, am fkkn loaded!"

[101]

3 hours ago, Theyellowbox said:

and the other austerity measures as being Labour doing more or less what they warned they'd need to do

Anas Sarwar actually said “no austerity under Labour” he’s a typical Rangers fan. Delusional.

[Salt n Vinegar]

1 hour ago, 101 said:

Anas Sarwar actually said “no austerity under Labour” he’s a typical Rangers fan. Delusional.

In the finest traditions of  political life, there will be austerity measures, but Labour will deny it by use of the cunning trick of simply calling it something else.

"Austerity? No way. There will simply be a period of targeted personal adjustments resulting in a generally downward curve of people's personal finances. But austerity? Absolutely not."