I Clavdivs Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 1 hour ago, Monkey Tennis said: This, for me, is the question. Does the poor SNP performance reflect any downturn in what would be a YES vote? Or does it reflect a divorce that people are mentally making, between the cause of independence, and the SNP as its vehicle? Latest polls taken just before election show roughly a 50/50 split and shows a disconnect with SNP polling which is now 20% lower .The next 6-12 months will be crucial in not only sustaining the 50% for YES but also building it.This will not be easy given Labour's period of grace before they inevitably tank . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leith Green Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 I'm totally fucking disillusioned today. Not by the thought of Independence, I still want it more than ever. But I am pretty pissed off by the SNP (and I was a member) absolutely fucking it for all of us with the Murrell fiasco. There were years after 2014 when we were pressing, pressing, doing all we could, including returning a fucking massive number of MPs in Westminster last time round. And all to no avail. We have been outmanoeuvred by those unionist kunts, while at the same time chopping our own party off at the knees in a totally avoidable, ridiculous, embarrassing, and - ultimately electorally disastrous - pish with the donations. I am so glad the Tories have gone, but I just cant see a real future today. I think I am going to have to engage a lot of strong drink........................ 16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 4 hours ago, I Clavdivs said: Independence option v London rule still around 50/50 over all age groups .Under 50's shows a marked gap in favour of Indepedence .All to play for in the long run as unionism is basically dying out . 2026 Holyrood election should be based around a de facto referendum on Independence as there is no way out of this so called "equal,fair and voluntary union " in which we are seemingly trapped other than the whim of the larger partner in granting another referendum when it suits them . The most vocal Unionist accounts on P&B only care that it doesn't happen during their lifetime. Not whether or not it's democratic to withhold the right to self-determination, nor about whether there's a positive argument for the Union, just that their side remains on top until they die and they can continue to troll about it until then. None of them come across as having any genuine feelings about the UK one way or the other. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee-Bey Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 Independence became a mid to long term project after the Supreme Court ruling. Slapping a 'we'll get a referendum with x amount of seats or votes at this next election' sticker on everything is not a viable plan, especially for a tired looking administration rapidly running out of road and mired in scandal. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 23 minutes ago, Leith Green said: I'm totally fucking disillusioned today. Not by the thought of Independence, I still want it more than ever. But I am pretty pissed off by the SNP (and I was a member) absolutely fucking it for all of us with the Murrell fiasco. There were years after 2014 when we were pressing, pressing, doing all we could, including returning a fucking massive number of MPs in Westminster last time round. And all to no avail. We have been outmanoeuvred by those unionist kunts, while at the same time chopping our own party off at the knees in a totally avoidable, ridiculous, embarrassing, and - ultimately electorally disastrous - pish with the donations. I am so glad the Tories have gone, but I just cant see a real future today. I think I am going to have to engage a lot of strong drink........................ Murrell must answer for his sins. Nicola too if she had any idea. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Clavdivs Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 12 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: Murrell must answer for his sins. Nicola too if she had any idea. High time the Augean stables were given a sweep methinks . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Other Foot Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 Lads, be serious. It’s over. I’d have been delighted if it weren’t the case, but the prospect of independence has vanished now and won’t return for 30-40 years minimum. There’s a fine line between reality and fantasy. Time to focus on other things. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 11 minutes ago, The Other Foot said: Lads, be serious. It’s over. I’d have been delighted if it weren’t the case, but the prospect of independence has vanished now and won’t return for 30-40 years minimum. There’s a fine line between reality and fantasy. Time to focus on other things. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 Mintermind going to Mintermind. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inanimate Carbon Rod Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 Imagine wildly celebrating that your own country is populated by shitebags. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 5 hours ago, Galajambo said: I'd say with the older generation who voted to look after themselves and screw their grandchildren over, they're a dying breed, and the Indy movement is very much in its infancy and yet to flourish, the trouble is that we've had a massive taste of it and have zero patience, it'll happen, we just need to keep paving the way for it, even if us older (53yrs old) generations don't get to see it. Speaking of older generations, I'm hoping pollsters produce an age breakdown for the vote in Scotland. My hunch that it was older votes that switched from SNP to Labour, those that routinely voted Labour up to 2015, while younger voters stuck with the SNP or went Green. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 2 hours ago, The Other Foot said: Lads, be serious. It’s over. I’d have been delighted if it weren’t the case, but the prospect of independence has vanished now and won’t return for 30-40 years minimum. There’s a fine line between reality and fantasy. Time to focus on other things. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi2 Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 I genuinely don't take any pleasure in seeing the SNP where they found themselves this morning Obviously I am pleased (to say the least) about the return of a Labour govt, the back of the Tories at last, and a good Labour performance in Scotland after a long 10 years. However the SNP were a formidable election winning machine, based largely on being 'different' from the others with their discipline. While I obviously didn't agree with their political choices I could still admire and hand it to them on their activism. It is therefore sad to watch the Murrel situation, Mattheson etc as it is such a departure from what they had before. As said previously the great energy produced in 2014, came not from the SNP themselves but the grassroots movements which sprung up around it . These folk are scunnered but they (rightly) haven't gone away. Neither have folk who vote Labour and Lib Dem but who would vote Yes in a Referendum. There is still a chance to build that support in opinion polls over the next few years, decoupled from SNP 'success' or not, at the ballot box. The day will come when it reaches around 60% and will hold there..it might take a few years, but it will happen. Hopefully by that time Devolution will have been enhanced to the point that a next step seems only natural. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 ^^^ your regular SNP BAD programming will continue after these important messages. Personally, I'm looking forward to finding out how it's the SNP's fault when Labour do very little that the electorate considers worthwhile, although we might be on Jedi3 by then. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 2 hours ago, Jedi2 said: I genuinely don't take any pleasure in seeing the SNP where they found themselves this morning Obviously I am pleased (to say the least) about the return of a Labour govt, the back of the Tories at last, and a good Labour performance in Scotland after a long 10 years. However the SNP were a formidable election winning machine, based largely on being 'different' from the others with their discipline. While I obviously didn't agree with their political choices I could still admire and hand it to them on their activism. It is therefore sad to watch the Murrel situation, Mattheson etc as it is such a departure from what they had before. As said previously the great energy produced in 2014, came not from the SNP themselves but the grassroots movements which sprung up around it . These folk are scunnered but they (rightly) haven't gone away. Neither have folk who vote Labour and Lib Dem but who would vote Yes in a Referendum. There is still a chance to build that support in opinion polls over the next few years, decoupled from SNP 'success' or not, at the ballot box. The day will come when it reaches around 60% and will hold there..it might take a few years, but it will happen. Hopefully by that time Devolution will have been enhanced to the point that a next step seems only natural. If Labour do more regards Devolution instead of just paying lip service to it I might just believe you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky88 Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 It's difficult to escape the conclusion that Swinney et al look at the support for independence then wonder how they can get those folk to vote for the SNP. The party used to be a means to an end, and for most of those who vote for them it still is. But it increasingly looks like independence supporters are just being used. Even Alba suggest independence supporters still vote for the SNP. Personally think the independence movement needs a new pro independence party that challenges the SNP on the constituency vote in the SP. Independence is too associated with particular divisive individuals when ultimately the constitutional question will remain long after those individuals have gone. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScotiaNostra Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 16 hours ago, Leith Green said: I'm totally fucking disillusioned today. Not by the thought of Independence, I still want it more than ever. But I am pretty pissed off by the SNP (and I was a member) absolutely fucking it for all of us with the Murrell fiasco. There were years after 2014 when we were pressing, pressing, doing all we could, including returning a fucking massive number of MPs in Westminster last time round. And all to no avail. We have been outmanoeuvred by those unionist kunts, while at the same time chopping our own party off at the knees in a totally avoidable, ridiculous, embarrassing, and - ultimately electorally disastrous - pish with the donations. I am so glad the Tories have gone, but I just cant see a real future today. I think I am going to have to engage a lot of strong drink........................ It wasnt just the Murrell fiasco and if the SNP dont realise that then its an even harder job to turn things around 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 19 minutes ago, ScotiaNostra said: It wasnt just the Murrell fiasco and if the SNP dont realise that then its an even harder job to turn things around The last poll prior to Sturgeon’s resignation had the SNP on 43% and Labour on 30%. Yes there were/are other issues in play and there’s always scope for a political party to improve their standing but had it not been for Murrell’ apparent fuckwittery I would suggest the results on Thursday past would have been significantly different. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glen Scotia Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 16 hours ago, Leith Green said: I'm totally fucking disillusioned today. Not by the thought of Independence, I still want it more than ever. But I am pretty pissed off by the SNP (and I was a member) absolutely fucking it for all of us with the Murrell fiasco. There were years after 2014 when we were pressing, pressing, doing all we could, including returning a fucking massive number of MPs in Westminster last time round. And all to no avail. We have been outmanoeuvred by those unionist kunts, while at the same time chopping our own party off at the knees in a totally avoidable, ridiculous, embarrassing, and - ultimately electorally disastrous - pish with the donations. I am so glad the Tories have gone, but I just cant see a real future today. I think I am going to have to engage a lot of strong drink........................ Agree with this. Could copy alot of what you have said and paste it in Scotland's performance at Euros 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Bully Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 I’m starting to get over it. As I see it, there are 2 options for the next couple of years. Either: 1. Labour make things demonstrably better than they are at the moment. Regardless of your views on independence, that’s got to be a good thing; or 2. Nothing really changes and It is even more apparent that the only way to move Scotland forward is to become independent. I think the second option is the more likely tbh. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.