El Final: 🇪🇸 Spain v England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

[DeeTillEhDeh]

41 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

This needs exploring again.  Maybe it deserves a new thread, but I don't tend to start them.

I desperately want England to lose, but recognise this as probably a bit pathetic.

I've lived in England, studied in England and worked there.  Obviously, I know and like plenty English people.  I don't mind Southgate and I quite like Kane, Rice and Saka.

Honestly though, I can scarcely bear the thought of England winning this.  I'm worse for this now than I was when younger.  I can attempt to rationalise it by bleating about the media, but in truth, our own are bloody worse.  I can say it's a football rivalry, but that's dated and one sided.  I certainly don't feel this revulsion towards any clubs like Annan, Ayr or Stranraer.  

The explanation of the giant chip on the shoulder seems like the best fit.  Do I/we need to grow up a bit?  Or is there a perfectly sensible and morally justifiable reason for feeling this way, that I just haven't yet hit upon?

It's called a football rivalry which some phannies don't understand.

[Owsley 2]

Anyone else giving this a miss? I haven't watched any of their games in their entirety. Saw the Swiss game had gone to pens and knew they'd win. Didn't have any confidence in the Dutch. To be honest, I've had a sinking feeling ever since the Slovakia game. The Spaniards might treat animals pretty despicably but I'll be hoping they keep up their 100% record and spare us the agony every sodding time we turn on the news for six months. I can't even use the " focus minds on independence" hope with the utter shambles we're in politically but that's for another thread.

[Melanius Mullarkey]

4 hours ago, doulikefish said:

I'm in London this weekend

I was in the Yorkshire Dales for the last one. 

Spoiler

 

[super_carson]

I see plenty of the social media knuckle-draggers digging up McGinn's comments when he was interviewed alongside Watkins (saying he'd want Watkins to score 3 goals but England lose 4-3).  They seem to be completely missing the point that McGinn was making - that on a personal level we don't actually have a problem with anyone just because they are English (and certainly we shouldn't) but that the collective hype was infuriating and inescapable for those of us who have to share the coverage.  

There is an arrogance and entitlement when it comes to English sport, and it's probably magnified for us due to sharing ITV/BBC, and it's why I do enjoy seeing them fall flat on their face.  When you consider all of the other socio-political and historical factors, it's probably not hard to see why some (a lot?) of Scots want to see them get emptied at the first available opportunity but seems to be lost on our Southern neighbours.  

Edited July 11 by super_carson

[Oceanlineayr]

49 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

This needs exploring again.  Maybe it deserves a new thread, but I don't tend to start them.

I desperately want England to lose, but recognise this as probably a bit pathetic.

I've lived in England, studied in England and worked there.  Obviously, I know and like plenty English people.  I don't mind Southgate and I quite like Kane, Rice and Saka.

Honestly though, I can scarcely bear the thought of England winning this.  I'm worse for this now than I was when younger.  I can attempt to rationalise it by bleating about the media, but in truth, our own are bloody worse.  I can say it's a football rivalry, but that's dated and one sided.  I certainly don't feel this revulsion towards any clubs like Annan, Ayr or Stranraer.  

The explanation of the giant chip on the shoulder seems like the best fit.  Do I/we need to grow up a bit?  Or is there a perfectly sensible and morally justifiable reason for feeling this way, that I just haven't yet hit upon?

You like Harry Kane? 

[kennie makevin]

5 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

It's called a football rivalry which some phannies don't understand.

But it isn't....it really isn't. Historically it was. But calling it a football rivalry now is like calling Celtic - Queens Park a football rivalry. I don't any longer understand it but I can't let it go. I'm even telling myself i only want Spanish to win because they play the best football . 

[Granny Danger]

54 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

This needs exploring again.  Maybe it deserves a new thread, but I don't tend to start them.

I desperately want England to lose, but recognise this as probably a bit pathetic.

I've lived in England, studied in England and worked there.  Obviously, I know and like plenty English people.  I don't mind Southgate and I quite like Kane, Rice and Saka.

Honestly though, I can scarcely bear the thought of England winning this.  I'm worse for this now than I was when younger.  I can attempt to rationalise it by bleating about the media, but in truth, our own are bloody worse.  I can say it's a football rivalry, but that's dated and one sided.  I certainly don't feel this revulsion towards any clubs like Annan, Ayr or Stranraer.  

The explanation of the giant chip on the shoulder seems like the best fit.  Do I/we need to grow up a bit?  Or is there a perfectly sensible and morally justifiable reason for feeling this way, that I just haven't yet hit upon?

The only thing that’s pathetic about it is thinking that it’s pathetic.

38 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

A wee bit off topic but here goes.....

The more I watch the so-called elite level of football the more glad I am that I watch and support Dumbarton. OK, the individual and collective skills, fitness and organisation may be much lower, but the overall experience remains very true to the origins of the game. There is a passion and honesty (eg little diving) and crucially, randomness that has simply vanished from higher up the chain.  We are also largely free from the incessant demands of commerce and broadcasters to trick up the 'experience' for the domestic and global 'customer' and 'Insta Fan'. Last night's latest VAR farrago was another reminder of when it's not broken then don't fix it.

I'll watch the final but I'm setting my expectations pretty low.

 

 

I am glad you watch Dumbarton too.

[Michael W]

7 hours ago, PSJ.84 said:

England 21/10 on Skybet for those looking to soften the blow. Just stuck £40 on them. 

They will win it after extra time or on penalties, just to spite you. 

Got them at 5/4 to lift the trophy. Hope I lose. 

[TONTROOPER]

22 minutes ago, Oceanlineayr said:

You like Harry Kane? 

       ^^^ Did you really  have to?

Edited July 11 by TONTROOPER

[Monkey Tennis]

22 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

It's called a football rivalry which some phannies don't understand.

That doesn't explain it for me.

I don't feel this antipathy to any local clubs.  Seeing our modern footballing relationship with England involving much actual 'rivalry' is also a bit of a stretch.

[Owsley 2]

15 minutes ago, kennie makevin said:

But it isn't....it really isn't. Historically it was. But calling it a football rivalry now is like calling Celtic - Queens Park a football rivalry. I don't any longer understand it but I can't let it go. I'm even telling myself i only want Spanish to win because they play the best football . 

You don't want your much bigger neighbours to have success. Especially when you live in a country that doesn't even have their own TV news and sundry other programmes that think they are just talking to England. 

[Monkey Tennis]

17 minutes ago, Oceanlineayr said:

You like Harry Kane? 

Aye, I always think he comes across as a decent bloke.

 

[Monkey Tennis]

1 minute ago, Owsley 2 said:

 you live in a country that doesn't even have their own TV news and sundry other programmes that think they are just talking to England. 

I do think this plays into it.  

It bugs me with the "Come on England" stuff tacked onto the end of unrelated programmes.  They do genuinely forget that they're broadcasting to the entire UK.  It's this thoughtless reading of the UK and England as synonymous which I'd imagine every non-English resident in the UK is familiar with.  

Again though, I can't help feeling I'm flailing around for things to be offended by, and to blame for why I'm so bitter and twisted.

[Skyline Drifter]

5 hours ago, buchan30 said:

The point i am making is that there has always been this argument from english pundits that these guys have to be the elite, competing in the champions league every year to be anywhere near the level, yet they are going into it with players from mid table teams. 

They're not though really are they. That's twice you've said it and I take the point a lot of the bench are (which is a side effect of so few English players playing with some of the bigger sides), but their starting eleven is packed with players from England's top clubs + Bellingham and Kane.

Of the regular starters only Pickford (no English keeper playing at any of the 'big' clubs) and Guehi, who is destined for greater things and probably wouldn't be playing if Maguire wasn't injured would meet your definition. Everyone else plays for one of Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Manchester City, Arsenal, Manchester United or Newcastle.

[Abdul_Latif]

1 hour ago, velo army said:

As I said. I don't have a telly

“Middle class Scottish things” thread for this pish imo.

[Monkey Tennis]

1 hour ago, Granny Danger said:

The only thing that’s pathetic about it is thinking that it’s pathetic.

Aye ok, Brexit Boy.

[Richey Edwards]

England will win easily IMO. 3-0 Saka hattrick.

[Stevie Kirk]

58 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

I do think this plays into it.  

It bugs me with the "Come on England" stuff tacked onto the end of unrelated programmes.  They do genuinely forget that they're broadcasting to the entire UK.  It's this thoughtless reading of the UK and England as synonymous which I'd imagine every non-English resident in the UK is familiar with.  

Again though, I can't help feeling I'm flailing around for things to be offended by, and to blame for why I'm so bitter and twisted.

I’m with you on this as I have been trying to work out exactly what it is that makes the idea of England winning a trophy so abhorrent. 

I genuinely believe that if we had our own studio coverage and commentators it wouldn’t feel half as bad. We all get wound up by the “assumption “ that everyone tuning in is desperate for an England victory. A Scottish panel providing coverage for a non partisan audience would solve a lot of the issues I have. I think the reason we don’t get this is not down to money it’s about establishing a cultural narrative.

Currently, there probably aren’t as many dislikeable characters in the England team as there have been in the past. However that is cancelled out for me by the number of diving cheats they now deploy. Kane plays every game looking to buy fouls, Saka and Foden go down in a slight breeze and Bellingham (who is definitely a fantastic talent) comes across as an entitled arsehole who also spends the 90 minutes trying to con the ref. Yes other teams do it but I’d say England are the worst by some margin. So basically they have the advantage of a large population a heavily monetised league, multi millionaire football stars but they are dreadful cheats. 

 

I think the main thing for me, the thing I fear about the whole thing is how it will leak culturally into everything for decades. In years gone by you saw the England team in a live match or in Top of the Pops. If they win this thing half the tv adverts for the next year or so will have an England dynamic and the players will be eulogised on a daily basis . They will be turning up at awards ceremonies, guest appearances on Ant and Dec , Bellingham will get to present his own tv show etc. Now I by and large don’t watch that sort of tv anyway so I could avoid it.
 

But like a lot of the guys on here my missus watches normal TV shows, so there is going to be no escape- trapped in an Anglo- centric propaganda machine . 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 11 by Stevie Kirk

[Bairnardo]

16 minutes ago, Stevie Kirk said:

I’m with you on this as I have been trying to work out exactly what it is that makes the idea of England winning a trophy so abhorrent. 

I genuinely believe that if we had our own studio coverage and commentators it wouldn’t feel half as bad. We all get wound up by the “assumption “ that everyone tuning in is desperate for an England victory. A Scottish panel providing coverage for a non partisan audience would solve a lot of the issues I have. I think the reason we don’t get this is not down to money it’s about establishing a cultural narrative.

Not Scottish, and unsure if i've mentioned it already but I have been catching most of this tournament on the Irish channel "RTE" and brother.... What a difference. 

[Wee-Bey]

Sir Kier Starmer's Three Lions to lift the the trophy imo.