El Final: 🇪🇸 Spain v England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

[blackbird]

Now that the outcome turned out to be good, I was thinking what it would have actuallly been like if they had won it.

Would they have really had a multi-city parade like it was written in some quarters? When France, Italy or Spain have won things they had a parade in their capital city the day after the final but nothing else. I am also not sure if UK police would have the funds and willingness to police the same events three or four times so I think this parade thing would have been bad for one day only.

As far as the media go, yes that would have been bad. The win been brought up in every tv show known to man, the likes of dancing on ice, love island, soaps galore etc. etc. Also every weekly match of the day would have had constant reference to it. As fas as everyday life goes, not sure it would have stay prevalent imho since it does not seem to be the case in other football mad countries like Spain, Italy and others.

 

 

Edited July 16 by blackbird

[Paranoid]

Southgate is a jammy sod who failed to take full advantage of his jamminess.

[Jacksgranda]

3 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Now that the outcome turned out to be good, I was thinking what it would have actuallly been like if they had won it.

Would they have really had a multi-city parade like it was written in some quarters? When France, Italy or Spain have won things they had a parade in their capital city the day after the final but nothing else. I am also not sure if UK police would have the funds and willingness to police the same events three or four times so I think this parade thing would have been bad for one day only.

As far as the media go, yes that would have been bad. The win been brought up in every tv show known to man, the likes of dancing on ice, love island, soaps galore etc. etc. Also every weekly match of the day would have had constant reference to it. As fas as everyday life goes, not sure it would have stay prevalent imho since it does not seem to be the case in other football mad countries like Spain, Italy and others.

 

 

The main problem is we get the same tv/radio programmes and news as the English do.

[GNU_Linux]

54 minutes ago, EvilScotsman said:

Four Lions > 3 Lions.

Hopefully Southgate gets to enjoy some rapid rubber dinghys on holiday

[VincentGuerin]

2 hours ago, Uncle Psychosis said:

I actually think Southgate has done a fantastic, but not quite spectacular job. 

Its very obvious that he's created a real team ethos and the players have a togetherness that the likes of the previous generation(s) never managed. His comments on entitlement, expectation etc. ahead of the Switzerland game also suggest to me that he "gets it" when it comes to the English media and the worst elements of their support. 

Football wise, it's very hard to argue with qualification at a canter, two Euro finals, coming within penalties of a trophy in one and in the other losing to a late goal to a very, very good Spain team. 

Obviously he gets criticism for the team not being "exciting" but international football is a results game first and foremost. I also think being England manager is "damned if you do, damned if you don't" and you'll get pelters regardless - if he'd dropped Kane and Bellingham and they'd lost we all know he'd have been pilloried for dropping the superstars, even by people who'd been calling for him to do just that. 

I don't blame him from walking away from what must be one of the most thankless jobs in football but equally the English media, and some of their fans, might find that they should have been more careful with what they wished for... 

Disagree with this. Let's do a wee comparison with Southgate and some of his predecessors.

1) Southgate v Capello: Both took England to the World Cup. Both finished second in the group at their first World Cup. Capello's team played Germany in the last 16. Their quarter final would have been Argentina and their semi-final Spain. Gubbed by a good Germany team, but the run they would have had was very, very difficult anyway. Southgate's runners-up got Colombia, Sweden, then Croatia. - ETA: Even Hoddle's runners up in 98 got Argentina, and had they beaten them, would have had a great Netherlands team and then Brazil. Southgate's draw is laughably easy in comparison.

Are Brave Gareth got a much easier time of it than Capello and Hoddle.

2) Southgate v Hodgson: Both took England to two Euros. Hodgson's first Euros saw England win a group ahead of France, Sweden, and Ukraine. His "reward" is a last 8 tie with Italy. It could have been Portugal. It could have been Greece. But luck shone not on Uncle Woy, and his team went home with 2 wins and 2 draws from Italy, France, Sweden, and Ukraine. This is as creditable a performance as anything Are Brave Gareth has done.

Hodgson fucked up his whole England manager copy-book by losing to Iceland in 2016. But that result aside, his record is pretty similar to Southgate. Even if they'd won that Iceland game, they'd have then had to play France in Paris in the quarters, so the draw had been unkind regardless.

As for the World Cup, Hodgson suffered from an admin f**k up by the FA leading to England missing out on a top seeding in 2014 due to a poor choice of friendlies. They drew Italy, Uruguay, and Costa Rica and get knocked out. Southgate's first World Cup group involved deliberately losing to Belgium to avoid the hard side of the draw, and heroically overcoming Panama and Tunisia. His second World Cup group is the USA, Iran, and Wales.

3) Southgate v Sven: Sven got England to three quarter finals. He played Brazil, Portugal, Portugal. Southgate played Sweden, Ukraine, Switzerland. How would Sven be remembered if his side had had quarter finals like that?

Again, you can say Gareth fostered harmony and unity. Or you can just say that maybe he caught a load of breaks.

Would Hodgson have got England further if his Euro quarter final had been against Ukraine instead of Italy? Probably. Would Capello have made a World Cup semi if his draw had been Colombia and Sweden rather than Germany and then (had they won) Argentina? Probably. Would Sven have taken England to a semi and possibly final if he'd had Gareth's quarter-finals? I think yes.

Southgate leading England to second place in Euro 2020 isn't an achievement. It's a failure. They had everything in their favour, right down to a semi-final against Denmark at fucking Wembley when Denmark had been playing in boiling heat a six-hour flight away a few days before. They lost the final to a relatively average Italy side at home despite an early lead. Similalrly, in their runs in 2018 and 2024, there is no point before their elimination when you'd have seriously expected them to go out.

He's a classic example of the old adage that it's better to be lucky than good. He's avoided banana skins, which I suppose isn't nothing. But there's absolutely nothing in his results to suggest he's really any better than the likes of Hodgson, Capello, Sven, or even Hoddle.

Edited July 16 by VincentGuerin

[Miguel Sanchez]

2 hours ago, accies1874 said:

I don't think there's anyone alive who writes as they speak - or speaks how they write - than Ronay. His contributions to Football Weekly are just empty contrarion questions delivered like he's solved the meaning of life.

That article could have been about a third of the length it is if it wasn't filled with References To Things That Intelligent People Like Me, An Intelligent Person Understand.

[Buzz Killington]

Wonder what gimmick the new manager will have.

Steve Maclaren - Brolly

Sam Allardice - Go Pro blindness

Garth Southgate - Cardigan

New manager - ??

[Miguel Sanchez]

On 15/07/2024 at 07:27, LondonHMFC said:

I think I like this one the best. Despairing figure, black background, minimalist headline. It's like someone's died.

[Miguel Sanchez]

On 15/07/2024 at 10:46, Claudia Gentile said:

Hey Jude, don't make it bad.
Take a sad song and make it better.
Remember to let her into your heart,
Then you can start to make it better.

 

 

 

On 15/07/2024 at 14:36, Sherrif John Bunnell said:

The vultures are already circling Gareth's brave lads.

 

 

Actually, no, this is my favourite

The (20 year old) saviour already being hung out to dry, along with him being perfectly captured in photos that almost look stage managed to show how much he cares. May they eat themselves forever more. 

[MarkoRaj]

 

[Michael W]

1 hour ago, VincentGuerin said:

Disagree with this. Let's do a wee comparison with Southgate and some of his predecessors.

1) Southgate v Capello: Both took England to the World Cup. Both finished second in the group at their first World Cup. Capello's team played Germany in the last 16. Their quarter final would have been Argentina and their semi-final Spain. Gubbed by a good Germany team, but the run they would have had was very, very difficult anyway. Southgate's runners-up got Colombia, Sweden, then Croatia. - ETA: Even Hoddle's runners up in 98 got Argentina, and had they beaten them, would have had a great Netherlands team and then Brazil. Southgate's draw is laughably easy in comparison.

Are Brave Gareth got a much easier time of it than Capello and Hoddle.

 

Fabio Capello made an arse of a very easy group. Southgate got Belgium, who were still around their peak strength and indeed beat England twice in the tournament. 

Remember the arrogance dripping off the press after the WC2010 draw? They played Germany owing to Capello's failure to finish top of what should've been an easy group. An easier path should have prevailed for them. 

 

Edited July 16 by Michael W

[AUcal]

Some more great Southgate unity on show.

Hey, there you, with the sad face...etc etc

 

[dirty dingus]

He was too woke for the gammons. He's had a target on his back since taking a knee and him criticising fans for invading wembley and for the hate messages after the last Euros.

[Lurkst]

2 hours ago, Bairnardo said:

You know the funniest thing about it.... The line "30 years of Hurt" is in there because 30 years feels like a long time for them....

 

And by the absolute earliest next opportunity for them to put that right, it will have doubled

Frank Skinner will be just short of his 70th birthday at the next World Cup.

 

[Zetterlund]

3 hours ago, Musketeer Gripweed said:

I just got an email offering me one of these..

https://www.clickcaststone.co.uk/products/others/shop/england-euro-2024-finalists-engraved-brick/?utm_source=Ibstock+Customer+Mailing+List&utm_campaign=9c0c848c92-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2024_07_16_10_46&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_-9c0c848c92-[LIST_EMAIL_ID]

 

Haud me back.

I've just ordered one.

When it arrives I'm going to throw it through my own front window for buying it.

[Jacksgranda]

2 minutes ago, Zetterlund said:

I've just ordered one.

When it arrives I'm going to throw it through my own front window for buying it.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

Will Southgate's resignation affect his chances of a knighthood ?

[Jacksgranda]

3 hours ago, Musketeer Gripweed said:

I just got an email offering me one of these..

https://www.clickcaststone.co.uk/products/others/shop/england-euro-2024-finalists-engraved-brick/?utm_source=Ibstock+Customer+Mailing+List&utm_campaign=9c0c848c92-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2024_07_16_10_46&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_-9c0c848c92-[LIST_EMAIL_ID]

 

Haud me back.

One brick? What would they be flogging if they had won, an 8' length of a 6' wall, with "Winners" picked out tastefully in red and white?

Edited July 16 by Jacksgranda
update

[Comrie]

I think this is my favourite Euros fact yet:
 

 

Edited July 16 by Comrie

[Thumper]

On 13/07/2024 at 11:58, Monkey Tennis said:

If that front page is real, then The National is guilty of that maddening thing of conflating the notions of Britishness and Englishness.  There's an irony in there.

It's been ten years and there are still people who haven't internalised that The National was started as essentially a joke, a short-run cynical cash grab by Newsquest to exploit all the daft jocks that were no longer content with a single Ian Bell column in the Herald. Now it helps keep them afloat even after they tried to pack it with every kook they could find, so they have to keep it going.

Re: Baddiel: when he and Rob Newman become overnight successes with The Mary Whitehouse Experience, he did a newspaper article where with a completely straight face he said he'd achieved it on merit because as a straight male Cambridge University graduate he was at a distinct disadvantage in the early 90s British comedy scene. This very nearly beats his naked, bald-faced racism in terms of quite how ignorant it illustrates him to be.