Mark Connolly Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 Even at the end, he made us wonder if he had one last comeback in him. What a guy 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Brightside Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 Btw the absolutely ridiculous misinformation surrounding Khelif could genuinely wind up getting her killed, and that's without considering other consequences for trans-women and women who don't meet society's (terf society, that is) expectations of "what a woman should look like", some people have started going after Ledecky, for instance. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiddy Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 2 minutes ago, Mark Connolly said: Even at the end, he made us wonder if he had one last comeback in him. What a guy Thereβs only one βAceβ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WullieBroonIsGod Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 The beeb had a montage ready to go. Balding in tears 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherrif John Bunnell Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 11 minutes ago, Mr. Brightside said: Btw the absolutely ridiculous misinformation surrounding Khelif could genuinely wind up getting her killed, and that's without considering other consequences for trans-women and women who don't meet society's (terf society, that is) expectations of "what a woman should look like", some people have started going after Ledecky, for instance. The same terf arseholes are going after one of the USA rugby sevens players, because she is a bit too muscly for their liking. f**king weirdos. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambomo Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Mr. Brightside said: Btw the absolutely ridiculous misinformation surrounding Khelif could genuinely wind up getting her killed, and that's without considering other consequences for trans-women and women who don't meet society's (terf society, that is) expectations of "what a woman should look like", some people have started going after Ledecky, for instance. I agree about misinformation, she is not trans so that isnβt relevant.Β I donβt think that it does any good to ignore actual factual information, and Β dismiss it as nothing though. Β The test that the IBA did, proved that genetically she has XY chromosomes and elevated testosterone, that is very relevant, factual information. The IBA banned her, the IOC recognised the test. Their spokesperson said in reading out their statement they allow competitors based on whatβs stated in their passports. Gender as we acknowledge now isnβt the same as sex at birth, so that can hardly be considered as rigorous enough now, can it?Β Β The Guardian Edited August 1 by Jambomo 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Brightside Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 Doesn't every Olympic champion have some sort of biogical advantage in one way or another? Where do you draw the line? Michael Phelps and his giant feet aren't allowed because it's unfair? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 3 minutes ago, Jambomo said: I agree about misinformation, she is not trans so that isnβt relevant.Β I donβt think that it does any good to ignore actual factual information, and Β dismiss it as nothing though. Β The test that the IBA did, proved that genetically she has XY chromosomes and elevated testosterone, that is very relevant, factual information. The IBA banned her, the IOC recognised the test. Their spokesperson said in reading out their statement they allow competitors based on whatβs stated in their passports. Gender as we acknowledge now isnβt the same as sex at birth, so that can hardly be considered as rigorous enough now, can it?Β Β The Guardian It's not a universal rule that men have XY chromosomes and women have XX. There are a number of conditions like Swyer syndrome that cause women to have XY chromosomes. Caster Semenya has a thing called 5Ξ±-Reductase 2 deficiency. There are men with XX chromosomes, which is known as de la Chapelle syndrome.Β Some people have three chromosomes. People who want to live in a nice, simple world want a definition of women that's nice and simple and works in every case. With 8 billion people that's not straightforward at all. The IBA are free to pick their own rule and they've done so. Some disagree with it. The IOC chose not to choose, especially after the Caster Semenya nonsense, so its self-defined. That could obviously be exploited but so far there's no evidence that anyone has done so. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groundhopping Adventures Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 Always reassures me given the horrendous shite you hear on twitter and from politicians that, most, of Pie and Bovril supports trans people's rights to exist. Spoiler A gentle reminder that the person that started this stooshie isn't trans just too butch for a terf's view of a woman Β 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambomo Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 Just now, Mr. Brightside said: Doesn't every Olympic champion have some sort of biogical advantage in one way or another? Where do you draw the line? Michael Phelps and his giant feet aren't allowed because it's unfair? You draw the line at biology of sexual characteristics. Nearly all sports are divided into male and female categories for good reason, the physiology of males and females is different, and itβs not just hormonal, things such as larger lung capacity, difference in skeleton, growth, bone density etc are all fairly consistently divided into two sexes.Β Donβt get me wrong, I am not on board with any of that TERFY shit you get. I want that to be clear. I am perfectly happy with shared toilets, changing etc, in fact weβve had these things fine for years . All of that is nonsense objections made by bigots. Sport is the only area I feel that there is a genuine and serious overlap with womenβs interests. Itβs absolutely based on biological sex physiology and this shouldnβt be easily dismissed. In this case it could be really dangerous, a woman fighting someone who may have, to a lesser or greater extent, male physiology is dangerous if they are fighting.Β -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 And putting this in a separate post because it's nothing to do with Khelif: Between 2003 when the IOC created their rule for trans athletes to compete and the start of the current Olympics, over 71,000 people have become Olympians. Out of those a total of two have been trans women. One came dead last, the other 37th out of 42. Folk who never had any interest in women's sport in the first place and have never spent any of their own money to watch it have very strong opinions about something that doesn't appear to be a big problem. https://www.theage.com.au/sport/perkins-a-breath-of-fresh-air-in-trans-debate-and-australia-is-with-him-20220622-p5avmf.html?fbclid=IwAR3P7lNQBZM1-HG0aO454VZjDzQWH3VEWRZbgWR3CUGlGf4hNtbB3C9JK1QΒ 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMDP Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 1 hour ago, Jambomo said: I donβt think thatβs completely accurate. It seems she failed a gender test that the IBA ran, it said she had elevated testosterone and XY chromosomes. It may be naturally occurring (I.e not doping with testosterone) but it doesnβt seem straightforward at all. It is absolutely straightforward. She is a woman.Β The IBA (formerly AIBA) are a disgraced organisation and the furore is based on a comment in a telegram channel from an official based on discredited testing.Β She has been branded a man, transgender and all sorts today. None of that is true. The poor woman is being used by evil c***s as part of a culture war.Β Derek Chisora tweeted "is this fair" about Imane Khalif and had loads of support from those wishing to tear strips off her. Derek Chisora is a convicted domestic abuser.Β The whole thing is utterly shameful.Β 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 6 minutes ago, Mr. Brightside said: Doesn't every Olympic champion have some sort of biogical advantage in one way or another? Where do you draw the line? Michael Phelps and his giant feet aren't allowed because it's unfair? Marfan Syndrome. 1 minute ago, Jambomo said: You draw the line at biology of sexual characteristics. Born a woman, brought up a woman, identifies as a woman. One day takes a test that 99% of the planet will never have to take = Turns out your wrong. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambomo Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 3 minutes ago, GordonS said: It's not a universal rule that men have XY chromosomes and women have XX. There are a number of conditions like Swyer syndrome that cause women to have XY chromosomes. Caster Semenya has a thing called 5Ξ±-Reductase 2 deficiency. There are men with XX chromosomes, which is known as de la Chapelle syndrome.Β Some people have three chromosomes. People who want to live in a nice, simple world want a definition of women that's nice and simple and works in every case. With 8 billion people that's not straightforward at all. The IBA are free to pick their own rule and they've done so. Some disagree with it. The IOC chose not to choose, especially after the Caster Semenya nonsense, so its self-defined. That could obviously be exploited but so far there's no evidence that anyone has done so. No itβs not but you have to acknowledge these cases are outliers. Itβs also the case that it still matters, in things like sport where the strength etc make a difference, that it needs to be considered. As in this case, if Khelif does have a a significant amount of male biological physiology, it needs to be considered, because itβs not about sporting advantage, itβs about someone with male physiology fighting a person with female physiology.Β 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 2 minutes ago, Jambomo said: You draw the line at biology of sexual characteristics. Nearly all sports are divided into male and female categories for good reason, the physiology of males and females is different, and itβs not just hormonal, things such as larger lung capacity, difference in skeleton, growth, bone density etc are all fairly consistently divided into two sexes.Β Donβt get me wrong, I am not on board with any of that TERFY shit you get. I want that to be clear. I am perfectly happy with shared toilets, changing etc, in fact weβve had these things fine for years . All of that is nonsense objections made by bigots. Sport is the only area I feel that there is a genuine and serious overlap with womenβs interests. Itβs absolutely based on biological sex physiology and this shouldnβt be easily dismissed. In this case it could be really dangerous, a woman fighting someone who may have, to a lesser or greater extent, male physiology is dangerous if they are fighting.Β Totally agree up to the last sentence and think that's a well considered viewpoint. We have weight divisions in boxing for the same reason. Thing is, Khelif only has 5 stoppages in her entire career and is not known as a big hitter. There are plenty of women who have beat her. We should definitely talk in general about how male is too male for women's sport, but I'm not sure even that is relevant here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambomo Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 4 minutes ago, JMDP said: It is absolutely straightforward. She is a woman.Β The IBA (formerly AIBA) are a disgraced organisation and the furore is based on a comment in a telegram channel from an official based on discredited testing.Β She has been branded a man, transgender and all sorts today. None of that is true. The poor woman is being used by evil c***s as part of a culture war.Β Derek Chisora tweeted "is this fair" about Imane Khalif and had loads of support from those wishing to tear strips off her. Derek Chisora is a convicted domestic abuser.Β The whole thing is utterly shameful.Β The IOC recognised the test as valid. Regardless of the IBAβs situation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiddy Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 Interesting, considering βsheβ lost to Irelandβs Kellie Harrington in Tokyoβs Olympics, & Amy Broadhurst* in 2022βs Worldβs! Would be helpful if they could provide conclusive proof of the claim that βsheβ is a male; as opposed to that of her opponent quitting & casting aspersions. The Italian wasnβt knocked down/out, to the extent where it looked a total mismatch. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMDP Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Jambomo said: The IOC recognised the test as valid. Regardless of the IBAβs situation. The IOC said they were victims of a "sudden and arbitrary" decision. Is Imane Khelif a woman?Β Edited August 1 by JMDP 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherrif John Bunnell Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 Does Simone Biles have an unfair advantage because she's 4 ft 8? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lukovic Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 I can't imagine taking the IBA's word for anything. An organisation involved in more scandals than the Government for the past 15 years. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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