Alex Salmond deid.

[GTee]

Amusing how many people interviewed 'Didn't believe in his politics'. Subservient weaklings.

[Freedom Farter]

2 hours ago, MazzyStar said:

All SNP mps at the time voted in favour of bombing Libya so he couldn’t have been that vehemently opposed to it. As for opposing the invasion of Iraq and bombing of Serbia, I doubt he was against them for any real ideological reason other than the fact it was a stick to beat Labour with at the time and once he was in power and when it really mattered he and the SNP changed their policy of opposition to NATO and western imperialism. 

That timeline suggests his politics changed. That the closer he got to power, the more he allowed for co-optation by the establishment. That's common and the thinking is probably that most of the electorate are not radical. Therefore, once the radical votes have all been collected, the party must then moderate (ie. support more status quo stances) in order to attract moderate voters. The problem is that a party moderating not only risks losing their initial radical base but also their sense of direction altogether and the whole thing can then collapse. It's possible that's happened with SNP.

Just sticking with the Nato/foreign policy example. SNP strategists thought it wise to promote Stewart McDonald to Defence Spokesperson. He now writes for The Spectator having lost his seat in July. So well done there, establishment embrace yet electoral rejection.

[Freedom Farter]

 

[git-intae-thum]

8 hours ago, MazzyStar said:

All SNP mps at the time voted in favour of bombing Libya so he couldn’t have been that vehemently opposed to it. As for opposing the invasion of Iraq and bombing of Serbia, I doubt he was against them for any real ideological reason other than the fact it was a stick to beat Labour with at the time and once he was in power and when it really mattered he and the SNP changed their policy of opposition to NATO and western imperialism. 

^^^

 

 

 

edit..... Sorry Rick. I obviously meant to include the opposition to the Nato bombing of Syria.

[velo army]

Not read through the whole thread. Nothing original to.add except he was a fascinating character and a great embodiment of national confidence, the antithesis of Scottish cringe. In debates and at Westminster he always gave the impression of being the smartest person in the room. I absolutely loved him.

I actually don't care about who he was in his private life, or how he treated others. People who have that level of charisma, responsibility and power tend to have complexities.  He was the greatest Scottish politician in terms of both impact and ability. His comments about Douglas Ross recently made me feel a pang of sadness at the array.of empty.suits we have in Holyrood and Westminster now.

He was.a generational talent and I don't think we'll see his like again.

Ken. Tartan birthday caird pish.

 

[SandyCromarty]

20 hours ago, welshbairn said:

A mate of mine got ill with kidney stones in Cyprus and his insurance firm refused to help. Luckily his brother was an RAF medic who organised a training flight to pick him up and get him home. I'm sure someone at RAF Lossiemouth could organise something with little fuss, it's only a wooden box. 

We went through repatriation with our Dad, it's a complex process made all the worse in that due to drug smuggling Dad was in a welded metal box inside the wooden coffin, all sorts of paperwork had to be completed before the coffin was released.

[Melanius Mullarkey]

4 minutes ago, SandyCromarty said:

We went through repatriation with our Dad, it's a complex process made all the worse in that due to drug smuggling Dad was in a welded metal box inside the wooden coffin, all sorts of paperwork had to be completed before the coffin was released.

Sorry if im misreading this but your dad was a drug smuggler? 

[Monkey Tennis]

Nothing original to add but I'll do it anyway.

He clearly was talented, driven and clever.

It genuinely was unthinkable until I was well into my 30s that the SNP might be electorally significant, and much of the fact it happened, probably is down to him. 

His ego was at least as large as his ability though.  That was evident long before court cases, and his forceful personality was more double edged than simply the pure asset that some recall.

Separating an artist from their work is harder to do with politicians than with musicians, footballers or actors in my view.

I see hailing his stature as a politician as fair enough, but some of the eulogising on his character has jarred a bit for me.  They discussed this on the News Agents podcast yesterday, and made a decent job of it.

Despite his political achievements, the very kindest interpretation to emerge from the allegations he faced, was that he was one creepy b*****d.

The verdicts didn't alter either part.

[Jives Miguel]

I've found it surprising how many Tories, explicit or otherwise, that have come out to pay tribute and call him a friend. Why was he pally with so many of them? I find it kind of odd, especially considering one of the main tenets of the SNP in the past 15 years has been to be vociferously anti-Tori. 

Edited Tuesday at 16:40 by Jives Miguel

[scottsdad]

4 minutes ago, Jives Miguel said:

I've found it surprising how many Tories, explicit or otherwise, that have come out to pay tribute and call him a friend. Why was he pally with so many of them? I find it kind of odd, especially considering one of the main tenets of the SNP in the past 15 years has been to be vociferously anti-Tori. 

Mhairi Black often said how well she got on with Jacob Rees-Mogg. 

Westminster is a village, not a surprise that folk don't just separate on party lines.

[TONTROOPER]

51 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Nothing original to add but I'll do it anyway.

He clearly was talented, driven and clever.

It genuinely was unthinkable until I was well into my 30s that the SNP might be electorally significant, and much of the fact it happened, probably is down to him. 

His ego was at least as large as his ability though.  That was evident long before court cases, and his forceful personality was more double edged than simply the pure asset that some recall.

Separating an artist from their work is harder to do with politicians than with musicians, footballers or actors in my view.

I see hailing his stature as a politician as fair enough, but some of the eulogising on his character has jarred a bit for me.  They discussed this on the News Agents podcast yesterday, and made a decent job of it.

Despite his political achievements, the very kindest interpretation to emerge from the allegations he faced, was that he was one creepy b*****d.

The verdicts didn't alter either part.

The difference being of course.... he wouldnt have to face a lenghty jail-term for being 'a creepy b*****d as you put it.

Had he been convicted of 'the allegations' ... he most assuredly would have.

[JagsCG]

15 minutes ago, Jives Miguel said:

I've found it surprising how many Tories, explicit or otherwise, that have come out to pay tribute and call him a friend. Why was he pally with so many of them? I find it kind of odd, especially considering one of the main tenets of the SNP in the past 15 years has been to be vociferously anti-Tori. 

It’s a big club etc. 

[BFTD]

23 minutes ago, Jives Miguel said:

I've found it surprising how many Tories, explicit or otherwise, that have come out to pay tribute and call him a friend. Why was he pally with so many of them? I find it kind of odd, especially considering one of the main tenets of the SNP in the past 15 years has been to be vociferously anti-Tori. 

They don't generally believe half of what they say in public, certainly not to the degree that they'd like us all to believe. It doesn't hurt that most of them are financially comfortable and don't genuinely have to worry about being affected by any specific policy that would actually have a chance of being enacted. It's a career.

If Eck had good chat and made for a decent drinking buddy, that'll have been the most important thing. That, and not embarrassing anybody in any meaningful way.

Edit: also, there's been an awful lot of "I don't agree with his politics, but I've always had a lot of time for him" from his political opponents in the past decade. That's a cast-iron sign that someone has become more of a liability than an asset, like when Stuart Campbell stopped being an evil cybernat troll to Unionists and became a rigorous journalist with impeccable sourcing, and how Ken Clarke gained a grudging acceptance from Labour voters once his party started veering rightwards and he became deeply unfashionable.

Edited Tuesday at 17:09 by BFTD

[CarrbridgeSaintee]

22 minutes ago, scottsdad said:

Mhairi Black often said how well she got on with Jacob Rees-Mogg. 

Westminster is a village, not a surprise that folk don't just separate on party lines.

I wasn’t aware of the Black/Mogg friendship! 

A very unlikely pairing, but it’s nice to hear such polar opposites can get on.

[velo army]

29 minutes ago, Jives Miguel said:

I've found it surprising how many Tories, explicit or otherwise, that have come out to pay tribute and call him a friend. Why was he pally with so many of them? I find it kind of odd, especially considering one of the main tenets of the SNP in the past 15 years has been to be vociferously anti-Tori. 

You forget that from 2007-2011 the SNP were a minority government and had to work with the Conservatives to get budgets passed. It's how politics should work. Remember also that the Tories hadn't been in government for a decade back then and hadn't started down their "murdering the poor and disabled" path they did under Cameron. 

[Monkey Tennis]

20 minutes ago, TONTROOPER said:

The difference being of course.... he wouldnt have to face a lenghty jail-term for being 'a creepy b*****d as you put it.

Had he been convicted of 'the allegations' ... he most assuredly would have.

Well, yeah.  Obviously.

I'm not sure what point you're making.

[HeartsOfficialMoaner]

37 minutes ago, Jives Miguel said:

I've found it surprising how many Tories, explicit or otherwise, that have come out to pay tribute and call him a friend. Why was he pally with so many of them? I find it kind of odd, especially considering one of the main tenets of the SNP in the past 15 years has been to be vociferously anti-Tori. 

You are allowed to like people.

[GordonS]

11 hours ago, velo army said:

I actually don't care about who he was in his private life, or how he treated others.

 

It could be taken that way but I'm assuming you don't mean that he was good at that independence stuff so you don't care if he sexually assaulted several women. 

[TONTROOPER]

10 minutes ago, GordonS said:

It could be taken that way but I'm assuming you don't mean that he was good at that independence stuff so you don't care if he sexually assaulted several women. 

I'd give serious consideration to deleting that post if I were you.

[RawB93]

2 hours ago, HeartsOfficialMoaner said:

You are allowed to like people.

I don't think that's true.