Rugby Union

[GAD]

42 minutes ago, Snobot said:

Just saw a stat that after yesterday’s game Hogg has played more minutes on this tour than Williams.

I doubt Gatland will ignore the Scottish players but if he goes full Matt Dawson is it petty and parochial to hope they get pumped in the first test?

 

Yes, which is why I'll be doing exactly that!

[GordonS]

20 hours ago, GAD said:

Though it does feel on the last two tours that Gatland started both first tests with the "media" team before saying "f**k it" and picking who he actually wanted in test 2 and 3.

Not so sure about that; in the first test four years ago everyone wanted Murray-Sexton-Farrell, and he chose Murray-Farrell-Te'o. He switched to the former for the second and third tests, with immediate improvement.

I think Squidge's analysis has been spot-on; Gatland has a game-plan in mind and will pick the players to play it, rather than the traditional way of picking the best players and finding tactics to suit. 

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

7 hours ago, GordonS said:

 

I think Squidge's analysis has been spot-on; Gatland has a game-plan in mind and will pick the players to play it, rather than the traditional way of picking the best players and finding tactics to suit. 

I find it weird that Gatland constantly talks about matching up to the Boks and 'winning the arm wrestle'. 

England proved in the world cup final that if you try to out-Bok the Boks, you'll just get steamrollered. I can't imagine that Townsend is sitting down with Gatland encouraging him to pick 3 back rowers that are all 6 foot 5 and 22 stone, or telling him it's a great idea to play the game with the ball in the air 80% of the time. 

I don't read the 'expert's pick for the Lions XV'. I got fed up with them picking players based on past reputation and ignoring the Scots who have stood up to be counted on this tour....the number of 'experts' who pick Vunipola at loose head despite him having a nightmare scrum after scrum after scrum, is laughable. 

I'm just delighted that so many Scots have enhanced their reputation on this tour....stunningly, Price looks like the best scrum half in the British isles, and Chris Harris....hugely underrated despite being one of the best defensive centres in the world....is finally getting the credit he deserves. On top of that, Mish is proving that he's the real deal and Rory Sutherland is building on a fantastic 6 Nations. 

I'm not too concerned about the Lions, but I'm rubbing my hands at the thought of next year's 6 Nations. Keep our best players fit and we'll be in with a real shout. 

 

 

[peasy23]

I find it weird that Gatland constantly talks about matching up to the Boks and 'winning the arm wrestle'. 
England proved in the world cup final that if you try to out-Bok the Boks, you'll just get steamrollered. I can't imagine that Townsend is sitting down with Gatland encouraging him to pick 3 back rowers that are all 6 foot 5 and 22 stone, or telling him it's a great idea to play the game with the ball in the air 80% of the time. 
I don't read the 'expert's pick for the Lions XV'. I got fed up with them picking players based on past reputation and ignoring the Scots who have stood up to be counted on this tour....the number of 'experts' who pick Vunipola at loose head despite him having a nightmare scrum after scrum after scrum, is laughable. 
I'm just delighted that so many Scots have enhanced their reputation on this tour....stunningly, Price looks like the best scrum half in the British isles, and Chris Harris....hugely underrated despite being one of the best defensive centres in the world....is finally getting the credit he deserves. On top of that, Mish is proving that he's the real deal and Rory Sutherland is building on a fantastic 6 Nations. 
I'm not too concerned about the Lions, but I'm rubbing my hands at the thought of next year's 6 Nations. Keep our best players fit and we'll be in with a real shout. 
 
 

Price has always shown in flashes that he has that sort of potential, but it looks like being (somewhat surprisingly?) picked for this Lions tour has taken his confidence and belief to another level.

[GordonS]

36 minutes ago, Bob Mahelp said:

I find it weird that Gatland constantly talks about matching up to the Boks and 'winning the arm wrestle'. 

England proved in the world cup final that if you try to out-Bok the Boks, you'll just get steamrollered. I can't imagine that Townsend is sitting down with Gatland encouraging him to pick 3 back rowers that are all 6 foot 5 and 22 stone, or telling him it's a great idea to play the game with the ball in the air 80% of the time. 

I don't read the 'expert's pick for the Lions XV'. I got fed up with them picking players based on past reputation and ignoring the Scots who have stood up to be counted on this tour....the number of 'experts' who pick Vunipola at loose head despite him having a nightmare scrum after scrum after scrum, is laughable. 

I'm just delighted that so many Scots have enhanced their reputation on this tour....stunningly, Price looks like the best scrum half in the British isles, and Chris Harris....hugely underrated despite being one of the best defensive centres in the world....is finally getting the credit he deserves. On top of that, Mish is proving that he's the real deal and Rory Sutherland is building on a fantastic 6 Nations. 

I'm not too concerned about the Lions, but I'm rubbing my hands at the thought of next year's 6 Nations. Keep our best players fit and we'll be in with a real shout. 

 

 

I think you have to be able to win the arm wrestle with South Africa in defence; attacking them is a different thing. Wales did it very well at the World Cup and I'm sure Gatland and Townsend have a few ideas that few of us see coming.

Winning the arm wrestle doesn't mean you need giants either - you need to put them down and turn them over, which is why Mish is such a weapon.

Totally agree about the Scots. Price has stepped up a level, he's put himself alongside the best the other three have to offer and seen that he's the best. His confidence and maturity will be through the roof. He's ready to lead.

Harris is just one of those players than looks at home at every level. Late in his career he's carved out a niche for himself as the cleverest defensive centre in the 6N and with Tandy's help he's thriving in it.

It's the tests that will be the real... er, test, so I'm holding fire on drawing too many conclusions for the others yet. I'm sure Hamish Watson knew he was that good - I want South Africa to see it too.

I don't care much about the Lions either but these three tests are going to be proper epics. Winning carries so much personal meaning to all the players on both sides.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

And there was me hoping to see some Scots in the test match XV [emoji849].
I know he’s likely to start but Conor Murray [emoji2357] 

That Dawson team is genuinely awful.

Players picked on name not form.

[GAD]

10 hours ago, Bob Mahelp said:

I find it weird that Gatland constantly talks about matching up to the Boks and 'winning the arm wrestle'. 

England proved in the world cup final that if you try to out-Bok the Boks, you'll just get steamrollered. I can't imagine that Townsend is sitting down with Gatland encouraging him to pick 3 back rowers that are all 6 foot 5 and 22 stone, or telling him it's a great idea to play the game with the ball in the air 80% of the time. 

I don't read the 'expert's pick for the Lions XV'. I got fed up with them picking players based on past reputation and ignoring the Scots who have stood up to be counted on this tour....the number of 'experts' who pick Vunipola at loose head despite him having a nightmare scrum after scrum after scrum, is laughable. 

I'm just delighted that so many Scots have enhanced their reputation on this tour....stunningly, Price looks like the best scrum half in the British isles, and Chris Harris....hugely underrated despite being one of the best defensive centres in the world....is finally getting the credit he deserves. On top of that, Mish is proving that he's the real deal and Rory Sutherland is building on a fantastic 6 Nations. 

I'm not too concerned about the Lions, but I'm rubbing my hands at the thought of next year's 6 Nations. Keep our best players fit and we'll be in with a real shout. 

 

 

I think, like Gordon says, you do have to do that in some respects, especially in defence, but I think Gatland is playing to the gallery a wee bit when he says that. He's left a lot of the real shitfesters at home, especially in the forwards. The centres are pretty solid tbf, but most of the other backs are pretty exciting where more solid options could have been picked, and at 10, though he's kind of stuck with Biggar/Farrell at the moment, I think it's pretty obvious he actually does want Russell to play some part in the tests just by the fact he hasn't sent him home, and brought in Smith as cover.

[super_carson]

Cockerill has left Edinburgh this morning to pursue other opportunities.

Lots of Edinburgh fans will be gutted at this, but can't say I'm that fussed. He wasn't an easy guy to get on with and, even when you consider everything that happened last season with covid etc, results last year were awful.

I'd like to see a somewhat marquee appointment, but equally I can see it being someone like Mike Blair.

[Detournement]

I think the SRU have to develop a Scottish coach.

Cockerill undoubtedly drove standards far higher at Edinburgh but his tactics were never positive enough to win a big game. Edinburgh need a coach who is going to develop Shiel, Vellacot, Chamberlain and Kinghorn.

[GAD]

Yeah, I think Mike Blair or someone like that is the right shout just now to be honest. It should be someone that can develop and go on to hopefully bigger things, and maybe bring through a few of the supposedly decent youngsters that didn't get much of a chance last season. Edinburgh should be looking for a Townsend rather than a Rennie for me.

I suppose one thing in Cokerhill's defence is that despite Edinburgh having a good squad, he didn't get to use them much. That should change this year, so maybe he deserved another pop with his A team.

 

[GordonS]

Cockerill kicked a talented squad out of their complacency and lack of intensity, he was exactly the right man for the job at the time. I remember the look on his face in an early post-match interview after losing at home to Zebra, having had a big away win in England (IIRC) the previous week. It was like "ah, so that's what everyone was warning me about." He had a huge impact and I'm sure he helped the careers of guys like Mish and Sutherland. 

I've seen little of Edinburgh over the past 18 months so I don't know how much of the poor form is down to him. It's been a weird time for both of the Scottish pro teams. I've heard rumours of him making enemies and seen them here too, you never know how much truth there is in that and how much is his fault. He deserves to be remembered well by the fans because he gave a backbone to a team that was a sot touch. 

[Savage Henry]

2 hours ago, Detournement said:

I think the SRU have to develop a Scottish coach.

Cockerill undoubtedly drove standards far higher at Edinburgh but his tactics were never positive enough to win a big game. Edinburgh need a coach who is going to develop Shiel, Vellacot, Chamberlain and Kinghorn.

The trouble is, the SRU rush their Scottish coaches through the system just so they can say they have a Scottish coach.  Townsend should be just coming into the Scotland set up now, but the SRU fast tracked him.  I don't really think the idea of a Scottish coach makes much difference - it seems to be more about coaching teams now anyway.  Mike Blair seems like the obvious shout.  

I also think Blair Kinghorn pretty much is what he is at this point.  

From the outside, Cockerill seems to have taken Edinburgh to at least par with Glasgow in terms of professionalism, but Jamie Bhatti seems to have loathed him.  

[honestly united]

Cockerill was definitely the right coach at the right time, but I think he has taken them as far as he could. Blair is a good shout for taking over. Im hoping the new super 6 set up as well as developing players for the future starts to develop coaches for the future also as with only 2 senior team the options are limited unless you already have your foot in the door in a club in England / France as an ex player

[printer]

On 16/07/2021 at 21:12, Mark Connolly said:

 

I genuinely think this is the least predictable Lions team in a long time, not just under Gatland.

Very much this. I think only probably A Watson, Biggar (with Finn injured), Furlong and Itoje are certainties to start on Saturday. I think Gatland will go with the following, but I could be completely wrong. (I've put my different choices in brackets).

15 Williams

14 Watson

13 Daly (Harris)

12 Henshaw

11 Adams

10 Biggar

9 Murray (Price)

8 Conan (Curry)

7 Watson

6 Lawes

5 Jones

4 Itoje

3 Furlong

2 Cowan Dickie

1 Sutherland 

Edited July 19, 2021 by printer

[honestly united]

9 minutes ago, printer said:

Very much this. I think only probably A Watson, Biggar (with Finn injured), Furlong and Itoje are certainties to start on Saturday. I think Gatland will go with the following, but I could be completely wrong. (I've put my different choices in brackets).

15 Williams Hogg

14 Watson

13 Daly (Harris)

12 Henshaw

11 Adams

10 Biggar

9 Murray (Price)

8 Conan (Curry)

7 Watson

6 Lawes Beirne

5 Jones

4 Itoje

3 Furlong

2 Cowan Dickie

1 Sunderland  Sutherland

I mostly agree but with the changes above - i think Gatland will go with Williams, Farrell and Price as the back replacements as covers all bases.

[ajwffc]

The trouble is, the SRU rush their Scottish coaches through the system just so they can say they have a Scottish coach.  Townsend should be just coming into the Scotland set up now, but the SRU fast tracked him.  I don't really think the idea of a Scottish coach makes much difference - it seems to be more about coaching teams now anyway.  Mike Blair seems like the obvious shout.  
I also think Blair Kinghorn pretty much is what he is at this point.  
From the outside, Cockerill seems to have taken Edinburgh to at least par with Glasgow in terms of professionalism, but Jamie Bhatti seems to have loathed him.  

From what I remember at the time there was some French clubs looking at Townsend. So the SRU decided fast tracking him ws the best way to keep him.

[Savage Henry]

2 minutes ago, ajwffc said:

3 hours ago, Savage Henry said:

The trouble is, the SRU rush their Scottish coaches through the system just so they can say they have a Scottish coach.  Townsend should be just coming into the Scotland set up now, but the SRU fast tracked him.  I don't really think the idea of a Scottish coach makes much difference - it seems to be more about coaching teams now anyway.  Mike Blair seems like the obvious shout.  
I also think Blair Kinghorn pretty much is what he is at this point.  
From the outside, Cockerill seems to have taken Edinburgh to at least par with Glasgow in terms of professionalism, but Jamie Bhatti seems to have loathed him.  

From what I remember at the time there was some French clubs looking at Townsend. So the SRU decided fast tracking him ws the best way to keep him.

Yeah. I still think Cotter had unfinished business. 

[honestly united]

9 minutes ago, ajwffc said:

3 hours ago, Savage Henry said:

The trouble is, the SRU rush their Scottish coaches through the system just so they can say they have a Scottish coach.  Townsend should be just coming into the Scotland set up now, but the SRU fast tracked him.  I don't really think the idea of a Scottish coach makes much difference - it seems to be more about coaching teams now anyway.  Mike Blair seems like the obvious shout.  
I also think Blair Kinghorn pretty much is what he is at this point.  
From the outside, Cockerill seems to have taken Edinburgh to at least par with Glasgow in terms of professionalism, but Jamie Bhatti seems to have loathed him.  

From what I remember at the time there was some French clubs looking at Townsend. So the SRU decided fast tracking him ws the best way to keep him.

Im sure it was so the SRU didnt have to buy him out a contract at a later date as he would have been off otherwise

[GordonS]

5 hours ago, printer said:

Very much this. I think only probably A Watson, Biggar (with Finn injured), Furlong and Itoje are certainties to start on Saturday. I think Gatland will go with the following, but I could be completely wrong. (I've put my different choices in brackets).

15 Williams

14 Watson

13 Daly (Harris)

12 Henshaw

11 Adams

10 Biggar

9 Murray (Price)

8 Conan (Curry)

7 Watson

6 Lawes

5 Jones

4 Itoje

3 Furlong

2 Cowan Dickie

1 Sutherland 

Gatland is a long-term admirer of Hogg so I think it would be a surprise if he didn't start. I'm not sure I'd call anyone a certainty to start. Maybe Itoje, probably Furlong, but with Gatland it wouldn't be beyond possible that Farrell starts at 10 or Williams and Adams on the wings.

One thing worth looking at is Gatland didn't give any of his intended starters more than 3 matches in the warm ups last time (and I think in Australia too). Guys like Daly have played a lot in the past few weeks. But maybe in the Covid-affected preparations that doesn't apply so much, and in the case of those playing out of the usual positions he may have been giving them game time.

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

I'd be stunned if Hogg didn't start. He's a vital cog in a succesful Exeter side, has grown into his leadership roles, has improved his defensive game over the last year, and has a massive boot on him as well as being razor sharp in attack.

He's at the peak of his game, and frankly the only reason any 'expert' is picking Williams in front of him is simply because Hogg is Scottish and these fuckers believe  that ALL our players aren't good enough.