Rugby Union

[Savage Henry]

Scotland could have a field day against these Italian centres. 

[Highlandmagar]

1 hour ago, Savage Henry said:

Scotland could have a field day against these Italian centres. 

On previous form, Scotland would bottleit.

[GAD]

7 hours ago, honestly united said:

My take was that Nic Berry hasnt seen the grounding so goes to the TMO which is the correct thing, as always if you havent seen something it hasnt happened. If Berry is going by the TMO (oh its down, oh wait a minute its not) he cant award the try. I wasnt at the game so cant say, but if those pictures are on the screens at Murrayfield, Berry can 100% change his mind (there have been plenty of examples of ref's saying on field is this, then seeing the pictures and changing there minds not waiting on the TMO to tell them.). If Berry has seen that and still gone, no try that is terrible reffing.

We now have an Irish parade to the grand slam, rather than a contest. If Scotland had won it sets up a last day shoot out with Ireland (which we would lose) as I can see us beating Italy and England. It devalued the competition and everyone knows there is nothing to play for now.

On the performance, again Scotland always look toothless when we are 5 metres out and the forwards are battering away. Out of all the top teams we must be the worst. Saying that I think we had a lot more composure than I think I remember us ever having, the ball looked wet and there were a few fumbled passes so probably didnt suit or usual game, if we had won no one would have been complaining (too much) about it.

For me the tournament and even the sport has been badly damaged by what happened yesterday. I'm watching the game with my pals who are mostly football fans and they can't understand what's happened. It's clear the ball is on the ground, there is nowhere else it can be, yet people are genuinely arguing that despite this they were correct to ignore that and award the win to France, fully in the knowledge France didn't win, because of the wording of a question. Nobody is really arguing a try wasn't scored, everyone knows it was, they are arguing about the use of the English language. That's not a serious sport or a serious competition.

If I was Scotland I'd be seriously tempted to have one big go against England, then burn the tournament completely. Give Finn, Zander and the boys a bit of a rest, throw in a few youngsters and cap anyone they can find with a Scottish granny who looks remotely capable.

[The Golden God]

Not a rugby fan at all but it’s clear as day that it’s a try. The whole clear and obvious thing is bullshit, a refs eyes in real time against a pile of bodies or a million cameras that can get slowed down? Trust the camera every time. 
 

I know dignity and being a gentleman etc is the done thing in rugby but they should be kicking up an enormous fuss, if that was Scotland in Germany this summer then you’d have every player, coach and pundit going mental about it and rightfully so. 

[Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo]

Sione points out the ball on the ground to the ref at the time too. I’m still fuming.

[Savage Henry]

15 minutes ago, GAD said:

For me the tournament and even the sport has been badly damaged by what happened yesterday. I'm watching the game with my pals who are mostly football fans and they can't understand what's happened. It's clear the ball is on the ground, there is nowhere else it can be, yet people are genuinely arguing that despite this they were correct to ignore that and award the win to France, fully in the knowledge France didn't win, because of the wording of a question. Nobody is really arguing a try wasn't scored, everyone knows it was, they are arguing about the use of the English language. That's not a serious sport or a serious competition.

If I was Scotland I'd be seriously tempted to have one big go against England, then burn the tournament completely. Give Finn, Zander and the boys a bit of a rest, throw in a few youngsters and cap anyone they can find with a Scottish granny who looks remotely capable.

The problem is TMO.  Like Joy Neville in the World Cup, the TMO made up a situation that was clearly not what happened.  There’s not a person alive who saw things the same was as the TMO. 

[VictorOnopko]

Can't claim to be a rugby expert - like a lot of folk I only watch the 6N and WC and never the club game.  But yesterday reminded me why I am totally scunnered with this Scotland team, and rugby in general.

• From a Scotland perspective, this is the most talented pool we have had in a generation - and somehow under Townsend we have achieved precisely f8ck all other than a few enjoyable one off wins.  We should have pasted the Welsh by 40 last week and we won by a point.  We should have kicked the points at the end of the 1st half yesterday then inevitably didn't score, and played a dismal kicking game all 2nd half which didn't work. We got the absolute minimum out of these two matches. I don't think Russell is a good (co-) captain, because last week the players weren't listening to him and this week he turned down vital points and ran the kicking show for the 2nd half which got us nowhere.
• The TMO fiasco at the end was (obviously) scandalous - the ref saying out loud he would overturn based on what had been said, then the TMO suddenly rowing back and stopping him - WTAF?  It was almost as much a kick in the baws as Joubert in 2015 and I can't remember anything in the 6N or WC rugby that has happened inbetween these two decisions which was more outrageous. This year we've been denied a win, momentum and hope for the rest of the 6N and last time we would've been in a winnable WC semi against the Argies.
• The referees in rugby union have far, far too much influence over the outcome of a match - last week against Wales we got ragged, but did we deserve 14 pens in a row?  A lot of penalties are obscure to say the least (in that a lot of cases, if they weren't called barely anyone would notice) - and the whole tedious scrum process also looks utterly pointless these days;  retained for reasons of history and the sport's identity more than anything else.

Overall, utter pish both from Scotland's perspective and for the sport in general - and yes, I am still seething! /rantover

[Jeff Venom]

I watched the Irish broadcast of the game yesterday and Rob Kearney Matt Williams and Shane Horgan were tripping over themselves in the studio to back the TMO decision. Possibly because they knew it's good for Ireland over the championship, but I found it absolutely wild as they'd have been the exact opposite had Ireland been on the end of it. 

Edited February 11 by Jeff Venom

[peasy23]

Watched the highlights show yesterday, and they highlighted a couple of massive missed chances when Scotland were on the French line. At the end of the first half when they were down to 14, Finn threw a short pass to Duhan who was tackled when it was a 5 v 2 out wide and the chance was lost. On the last play there was only one French defender to the right of where the play was, but no Scottish player ever looked that way and it would almost certainly have been a try.

Regardless of the tmo at the end, this was the worst decision of the game, the French try doesn't happen if the knock on is called here. The French player even stopped for a second expecting the whistle to go.

 

 

[Mark Connolly]

19 hours ago, Jeff Venom said:

I watched the Irish broadcast of the game yesterday and Rob Kearney Matt Williams and Shane Horgan were tripping over themselves in the studio to back the TMO decision. Possibly because they knew it's good for Ireland over the championship, but I found it absolutely wild as they'd have been the exact opposite had Ireland been on the end of it. 

Matt Williams still hasn’t forgiven us for exposing the fact he was an absolute imposter of a coach. Horgan and Kearney are a bit more odd- they are part of the Irish generation who have a massive chip on their shoulder towards us, despite the fact they were almost totally dominant at club and international level.

The Irish are so humble though, and they are proud of it.

[Left Back]

 

 

[Newbornbairn]

Quote

Scottish Rugby has called on the sport's governing body to publicly acknowledge that a game-defining mistake was made in the last seconds of Scotland's Six Nations loss to France.

In an email to World Rugby, the SRU say the integrity of the tournament was compromised by an apparent U-turn from the officials.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/68282213

[Left Back]

4 minutes ago, Newbornbairn said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/68282213

Waste of time imo.    How many times have WR said one of their officials was definitely wrong?  They did with Joubert.  Have there been any others?

Given all the stuff during/after the World cup and the abuse referees got I'd be surprised if they didn't publicly back the officials.  If WR hang them out to dry it'll be open season.

[Binos]

The commentators reeled in their responses after game 

Wayne Barnes has changed the way people react even if decisions horrendous 

[Binos]

On 11/02/2024 at 19:13, Jeff Venom said:

I watched the Irish broadcast of the game yesterday and Rob Kearney Matt Williams and Shane Horgan were tripping over themselves in the studio to back the TMO decision. Possibly because they knew it's good for Ireland over the championship, but I found it absolutely wild as they'd have been the exact opposite had Ireland been on the end of it. 

Two irishmen and a man who makes money from being on irish tv

[Virtual Insanity]

3 hours ago, Left Back said:

Waste of time imo.   

They know it's a waste of time and they know nothing will come of it but if they took it lying down it would just be acquiescing to our general treatment in international rugby. It might change nothing but we have to at least fight our corner. 

[JS_FFC]

As an absolute minimum, I’d like to see a rule change where a game can’t end when there is significant doubt on whether a try was scored or not. Surely the “fair” solution would have been for Scotland to get a scrum 5 and then play one more phase? 

[Left Back]

3 minutes ago, JS_FFC said:

As an absolute minimum, I’d like to see a rule change where a game can’t end when there is significant doubt on whether a try was scored or not. Surely the “fair” solution would have been for Scotland to get a scrum 5 and then play one more phase? 

Where do you draw the line?  What if the 8 picked it from the back of the scrum then the same scenario of a melee of bodies obscuring a try ensued?  Do you then keep repeating?

The game lasts 80 minutes.  Can’t have arbitrary extensions although I do think I recall a game being restarted with a scrum after time when the ref was unsure about something.  Can’t remember the details though.

[JS_FFC]

39 minutes ago, Left Back said:

Where do you draw the line?  What if the 8 picked it from the back of the scrum then the same scenario of a melee of bodies obscuring a try ensued?  Do you then keep repeating?

The game lasts 80 minutes.  Can’t have arbitrary extensions although I do think I recall a game being restarted with a scrum after time when the ref was unsure about something.  Can’t remember the details though.

I’d be more tempted to agree with you if the game ended at exactly 80 minutes like an ice hockey or basketball game but it’s 80 minutes + however long it takes for the ball to go out of play and even at that, a penalty is allowed to be taken if awarded (and even if they kick into touch, the lineout and ensuing play can go ahead too).

 

IMO there should be 3 possible verdicts for the TMO. On-field decision is confirmed, on-field decision stands, decision is overturned.

 

Decision can only be confirmed or overturned if we have conclusive evidence that the on-field decision was correct or wrong. Anything else (like Saturday) leads to the decision standing, but I don’t think the game should be allowed to end when that happens. Instead we restart with a scrum 5 to Scotland, from which they either score a try and win, or France get the ball back, hoof it into touch and win.

 

If it has to go to the TMO again then the process would be repeated. 

 

 

[Left Back]

52 minutes ago, JS_FFC said:

I’d be more tempted to agree with you if the game ended at exactly 80 minutes like an ice hockey or basketball game but it’s 80 minutes + however long it takes for the ball to go out of play and even at that, a penalty is allowed to be taken if awarded (and even if they kick into touch, the lineout and ensuing play can go ahead too).

 

IMO there should be 3 possible verdicts for the TMO. On-field decision is confirmed, on-field decision stands, decision is overturned.

 

Decision can only be confirmed or overturned if we have conclusive evidence that the on-field decision was correct or wrong. Anything else (like Saturday) leads to the decision standing, but I don’t think the game should be allowed to end when that happens. Instead we restart with a scrum 5 to Scotland, from which they either score a try and win, or France get the ball back, hoof it into touch and win.

 

If it has to go to the TMO again then the process would be repeated. 

 

 

The game only continues over 80 in the event of an act of foul play.  This stops the team in the lead from  ending the game by deliberately committing an offence.  That’s an entirely different scenario to running out of time.