Israel And The Palestinians (now with added Iran/Lebanon)

[dirty dingus]

I'm out the country so just seeing bits and pieces on twitter till I found this. Looks pretty much flattened in Gaza.

[coprolite]

14 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

What happens when the alleged credible primary sources are telling you that there are WMDs in Iraq or that the president's head was seen to move violently forward? The internet is a useful safety mechanism for making sure that the powers that be are not also able to misinform unchallenged. The problem with Twitter right now is that Elon Musk wasn't happy that they had been doing things like actively fact-checking Donald Trump, but eliminating the staff that used to do that sort of thing also seems to have stopped accounts that are spreading sensationalist misinformation simply to generate views from being suspended. Think that eventually is going to come back to haunt him, and a lot of more people will start looking for an alternative that works better.

Not convinced that Jack Dorsey’s approved version of reality was in principle any more reliable or incorruptible than any other commercial operation. 

[Michael W]

31 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

What happens when the alleged credible primary sources are telling you that there are WMDs in Iraq or that the president's head was seen to move violently forward? The internet is a useful safety mechanism for making sure that the powers that be are not also able to misinform unchallenged. The problem with Twitter right now is that Elon Musk wasn't happy that they had been doing things like actively fact-checking Donald Trump, but eliminating the staff that used to do that sort of thing also seems to have stopped accounts that are spreading sensationalist misinformation simply to generate views from being suspended. Think that eventually is going to come back to haunt him, and a lot more people will start looking for an alternative that works better.

There is also no end of people tweeting fabricated nonsense under the guise of "LOOK WHAT THEY'RE NOT REPORTING". And now with incentives to do so if you're a loser that wants to pay for Twitter. 

Edited October 11, 2023 by Michael W

[Florentine_Pogen]

On “alternative facts”:

“The frightening thing, he reflected for the ten thousandth time as he forced his shoulders painfully backward (with hands on hips, they were gyrating their bodies from the waist, an exercise that was supposed to be good for the back muscles)—the frightening thing was that it might all be true. If the Party could thrust its hand into the past and say of this or that event, IT NEVER HAPPENED—that, surely, was more terrifying than mere torture and death?”

“The Party said that Oceania had never been in alliance with Eurasia. He, Winston Smith, knew that Oceania had been in alliance with Eurasia as short a time as four years ago. But where did that knowledge exist? Only in his own consciousness, which in any case must soon be annihilated. And if all others accepted the lie which the Party imposed—if all records told the same tale—then the lie passed into history and became truth. ‘Who controls the past,’ ran the Party slogan, ‘controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.’ And yet the past, though of its nature alterable, never had been altered. Whatever was true now was true from everlasting to everlasting. It was quite simple. All that was needed was an unending series of victories over your own memory. ‘Reality control’, they called it: in Newspeak, ‘doublethink’.”

“To know and not to know, to be conscious of complete truthfulness while telling carefully constructed lies, to hold simultaneously two opinions which cancelled out, knowing them to be contradictory and believing in both of them, to use logic against logic, to repudiate morality while laying claim to it, to believe that democracy was impossible and that the Party was the guardian of democracy, to forget whatever it was necessary to forget, then to draw it back into memory again at the moment when it was needed, and then promptly to forget it again: and above all, to apply the same process to the process itself. That was the ultimate subtlety: consciously to induce unconsciousness, and then, once again, to become unconscious of the act of hypnosis you had just performed. Even to understand the word ‘doublethink’ involved the use of doublethink.”

“Sometimes, indeed, you could put your finger on a definite lie. It was not true, for example, as was claimed in the Party history books, that the Party had invented aeroplanes. He remembered aeroplanes since his earliest childhood. But you could prove nothing. There was never any evidence.”

 

On giving up in the face of an endless mountain of lies:

“Often she was ready to accept the official mythology, simply because the difference between truth and falsehood did not seem important to her. She believed, for instance, having learnt it at school, that the Party had invented aeroplanes. (In his own schooldays, Winston remembered, in the late fifties, it was only the helicopter that the Party claimed to have invented; a dozen years later, when Julia was at school, it was already claiming the aeroplane; one generation more, and it would be claiming the steam engine.) And when he told her that aeroplanes had been in existence before he was born and long before the Revolution, the fact struck her as totally uninteresting. After all, what did it matter who had invented aeroplanes?
…
‘Who cares?’ she said impatiently. ‘It’s always one bloody war after another, and one knows the news is all lies anyway.’”

“In a way, the world-view of the Party imposed itself most successfully on people incapable of understanding it. They could be made to accept the most flagrant violations of reality, because they never fully grasped the enormity of what was demanded of them, and were not sufficiently interested in public events to notice what was happening. By lack of understanding they remained sane. They simply swallowed everything, and what they swallowed did them no harm, because it left no residue behind, just as a grain of corn will pass undigested through the body of a bird.”

Edited October 11, 2023 by Florentine_Pogen

[DeeTillEhDeh]

16 hours ago, Newbornbairn said:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-palestine-hamas-attack-hostages-gaza-strip-b2426936.html

There's going to be a bloodbath in Gaza. The Israelis - brutal and ruthless before this, are going to go way, way over the top. With the full support of the Israeli population while the West will look away and let them get on with it. I wonder if this is what Hamas want, to provoke a massive over-reaction that forces an all-out religious war bringing in all the Arab nations.  The two US Carrier groups are there to keep Iran and anyone ese that tries to intervene out of it. 

I think that Arab Nations don't want to be dragged into a war that's not in their interests.

They'll stand back and let Hamas and the IDF fight it out.

Edited October 11, 2023 by DeeTillEhDeh

[DeeTillEhDeh]

15 hours ago, itzdrk said:

No -

 

 

 

14 hours ago, itzdrk said:

I was sharing the actual video of use of white phosphorus that's current, this is being used in Lebanon not Gaza.  It is being used not where people say it is.  

What's with the weird war crime question?  Just some harebrained attempt at a gotcha or do you just struggle with reading what's in front of you?  

In the tweets that follow someone claims it's not white phosphorus but thermite - ignoring the fact that the use of these kinds of incendiary weapons against civilian targets is outlawed by the UN.

[Jives Miguel]

Some recent head's gone on social media:

 

Check Mark Hamill's (yes Luke Skywalker Mark Hamill) pinned Twitter post, then the tweet directly under it. Absolute parody.

Andrew Neil and Jon Sopel going on about the uncorroborated beheaded babies stories.

Rachel Riley comparing people who don't believe uncorroborated beheaded babies stories to Holocaust deniers.

[TxRover]

5 minutes ago, Jives Miguel said:

Some recent head's gone on social media:

 

Check Mark Hamill's (yes Luke Skywalker Mark Hamill) pinned Twitter post, then the tweet directly under it. Absolute parody.

Andrew Neil and Jon Sopel going on about the uncorroborated beheaded babies stories.

Rachel Riley comparing people who don't believe uncorroborated beheaded babies stories to Holocaust deniers.

I’ve given up trying to read anything on Twitter/X. Nothing recent populates, trying to view anything demands a login, f**k it.

[die hard doonhamer]

It’s quite the juxtaposition

[Guest]

No doubt the Hamas are terrorists that killed hundreds of civilians but Israel are using it as an excuse to attempt mass genocide. 

[vikingTON]

6 hours ago, AMMjag said:

It doesn't really matter what the social media platform is or what eccentric billionaire owns it. It's an individual's responsibility to differentiate between a credible primary source and words/pictures on a screen.

While this is fundamentally true, the journalist 'profession' created the problem in the first place by treating the flaming bin fire that was Twitter all along as The Great Uncensored Source of News.

They can't really complain now when people simply ditch the middleman and look at the flaming bin fire for themselves.

[vikingTON]

3 hours ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

I think that Arab Nations don't want to be dragged into a war that's not in their interests.

They'll stand back and let Hamas and the IDF fight it out.

Arab governments perhaps; Arab nations perhaps not. 

There's a line beyond which Arab governments will face mounting internal pressure to take action, though that line is stretched further than at any time since 1948. 

[Ewanandmoreagain]

3 hours ago, die hard doonhamer said:

It’s quite the juxtaposition

This

[sparky88]

27 minutes ago, Empty It said:

No doubt the Hamas are terrorists that killed hundreds of civilians but Israel are using it as an excuse to attempt mass genocide. 

The sort of people who are turning a blind eye to it is utterly shocking. 

[Old Pack]

30 minutes ago, Empty It said:

No doubt the Hamas are terrorists that killed hundreds of civilians but Israel are using it as an excuse to attempt mass genocide. 

Democratically elected terrorists through the ballot box unfortunately when they ousted the Fatah Party who were deemed to moderate.

The Iranian Mullahs are sitting back just now lapping up the carnage they have created, they don’t give a f**k how many innocent Palestinians are going to get killed.

 

[Wee-Bey]

Imagining the guy working on the doomsday clock just screaming down the phone at his boss saying there's literally no more fucking minutes.

[Mark Connolly]

42 minutes ago, Empty It said:

No doubt the Hamas are terrorists that killed hundreds of civilians but Israel are using it as an excuse to attempt mass genocide. 

One man's terrorist is another man's sovereign state government that the international community refuse to criticise.

Or something

[Granny Danger]

Let’s not forget that the current Israeli Prime Minister is in the process of dismantling the judicial system as he faces corruption charges.

 

 

[DeeTillEhDeh]

1 hour ago, virginton said:

Arab governments perhaps; Arab nations perhaps not. 

There's a line beyond which Arab governments will face mounting internal pressure to take action, though that line is stretched further than at any time since 1948. 

Wouldn't disagree with that - this isn't 1967 or 1973.

Edited October 11, 2023 by DeeTillEhDeh

[sparky88]

https://x.com/fouadainhamra1/status/1712166827432792289?s=20