The Wrestling Thread

[forehead7]

Maybe this is just the worker in me talking, but how on earth can anyone think this was a shoot? Vince WOULD have cut of him 30 seconds in if he wanted or was deviating too far from the direction he was told to go.

Punk is given some lee-way with his promos due to his ability on the stick to put things across in the way his character would, without the help of writers, however he is told what route to go, and we all know that as Todd said, Vince loves the worked shoot. That said, that will go down as the promo of the year. Punk showed something that too many workers don't do. You don't need to shout down the mic, especially if you're lecturing the crowd. Tone matters, yet he managed to keep their attention by throwing in mentions of ROH and NJPW.

You'll also know that he said hello to his buddy Colt "Boom Boom" Cabana. If you want to say Hi to Colt in person, get yourself to the Northern Hotel, Aberdeen on August 20th. *Shameless plug over*

Again, I refer to the fact that if they cut him off 30 seconds into the promo then they'd have 6 minutes of airtime to fill with nothing prepared cause they had Punk's promo down in that spot. Nothing he said there was terribley offensive to the company's image, Vince may not have liked the mentions of ROH, NJPW or Cabana but it didn't do WWE any harm so why not let him shoot for the allotted time until he was about to do damage to the company.

I'd love to know what Punk was gonna say about Vince and bullying. I hope it was a shoot and he does a full shoot interview when he leaves.

[Shuggie_Murray7]

Maybe this is just the worker in me talking, but how on earth can anyone think this was a shoot? Vince WOULD have cut of him 30 seconds in if he wanted or was deviating too far from the direction he was told to go.

Punk is given some lee-way with his promos due to his ability on the stick to put things across in the way his character would, without the help of writers, however he is told what route to go, and we all know that as Todd said, Vince loves the worked shoot. That said, that will go down as the promo of the year. Punk showed something that too many workers don't do. You don't need to shout down the mic, especially if you're lecturing the crowd. Tone matters, yet he managed to keep their attention by throwing in mentions of ROH and NJPW.

Again, I refer to the fact that if they cut him off 30 seconds into the promo then they'd have 6 minutes of airtime to fill with nothing prepared cause they had Punk's promo down in that spot. Nothing he said there was terribley offensive to the company's image, Vince may not have liked the mentions of ROH, NJPW or Cabana but it didn't do WWE any harm so why not let him shoot for the allotted time until he was about to do damage to the company.

I'd love to know what Punk was gonna say about Vince and bullying. I hope it was a shoot and he does a full shoot interview when he leaves.

As I said yesterday, Vince would have been backstage watching a monitor with a headset glued to his lugs. The second Punk stryaed from a scripted promo the mic would have beeen cut / someone else would have been sent out to interupt etc. etc. etc.

As I also said, it is a phenomenal piece fo work. To have people like us here even debting whether it was real or not is genius.

On the point of Punk mentioning NJPW and ROH, 99.99% of WWE fans wouldn't have had a clue what he was talking about. When he said it most of us would have went "Ooohh!! FFS" Yet the crowd on the night, no reaction to it.

[forehead7]

As I said yesterday, Vince would have been backstage watching a monitor with a headset glued to his lugs. The second Punk stryaed from a scripted promo the mic would have beeen cut / someone else would have been sent out to interupt etc. etc. etc.

As I also said, it is a phenomenal piece fo work. To have people like us here even debting whether it was real or not is genius.

On the point of Punk mentioning NJPW and ROH, 99.99% of WWE fans wouldn't have had a clue what he was talking about. When he said it most of us would have went "Ooohh!! FFS" Yet the crowd on the night, no reaction to it.

No chance was it scripted. Vince may have set guidelines for him, just go out and say why your leaving.

I guess that sort of counts as a worked shoot. If Vince had scripted that then there'd have been no mention of ass kissing(from either Cena or the Rock) or anyone not related to the "WWE Universe" at this moment.

[Shuggie_Murray7]

I noticed that Punk kept saying "I am the best wrestler in the world" As far as I'm aware you're not allowed to say wrestler. It's "Superstar". Punk referred to himself as a wrestler several times.

[Deestruction]

Again, I refer to the fact that if they cut him off 30 seconds into the promo then they'd have 6 minutes of airtime to fill with nothing prepared cause they had Punk's promo down in that spot. Nothing he said there was terribley offensive to the company's image, Vince may not have liked the mentions of ROH, NJPW or Cabana but it didn't do WWE any harm so why not let him shoot for the allotted time until he was about to do damage to the company.

I'd love to know what Punk was gonna say about Vince and bullying. I hope it was a shoot and he does a full shoot interview when he leaves.

You do know that they were two minutes in to their over-run at the point already, right? They could've cut off at any time in Punks promo.

It was a work, and a good work as it blurred the lines in some peoples eyes, so well done Punk, you showed that it is possible to work people in modern days.

[DomDom]

It wouldn't surprise me if the entire thing was a shoot. What Shuggie posted definately makes sense. Is it worked? Sure. He's been told to go out and speak his mind and that's what he's done. He knew he was gonna be cut off if he went too far, and it wouldn't surprise me if he was TOLD to go too far in order to make the cut off necessary, and add to the mystique of things. There was a couple of times when it seemed to be scripted though. When he mentions the "fourth wall" and the camera angle changes. That was obviously planned.

Mentions of ROH and NJPW surprised me. The Triple H and the "idiots" stuff doesn't. We've seen that they aren't untouchable in the past.

[Shuggie_Murray7]

I forgot to mention camera changes. How would they have known when to cut to each camera as Punk braoke the 4th wall and said hi to Cabana? So to me it's clear that certain parts were scripted.

[forehead7]

I forgot to mention camera changes. How would they have known when to cut to each camera as Punk braoke the 4th wall and said hi to Cabana? So to me it's clear that certain parts were scripted.

That was something that weighed in the favour of the work.

Although if you watch it, both times(the fourth wall and Colt Cabana bits) he doesn't do it right on time. I'd imagine that there's some way of determining which camera is actually live and those two moments he was talking to the camera rather than to Cena or the crowd so he was looking for the camera.

I should just point out, that I don't think it was a full-on shoot but I reckon it's more shoot than work.

[Shuggie_Murray7]

That was something that weighed in the favour of the work.

Although if you watch it, both times(the fourth wall and Colt Cabana bits) he doesn't do it right on time. I'd imagine that there's some way of determining which camera is actually live and those two moments he was talking to the camera rather than to Cena or the crowd so he was looking for the camera.

I should just point out, that I don't think it was a full-on shoot but I reckon it's more shoot than work.

I'm trying to think of way to describe it. I reckon it was a pre-planned shoot. No doubt that at the end he was straight shooting,but he was clearly told to do so.

[forehead7]

I'm trying to think of way to describe it. I reckon it was a pre-planned shoot. No doubt that at the end he was straight shooting,but he was clearly told to do so.

The way I see it, Vince has told him to go out and say why he's leaving and to say stuff about him leaving with the title.

I think that's the extent of the script. Maybe Vince told him to go pretty deep near the end so they could cut him off and add to the angle of him leaving(whether him leaving be true or not)

[Marshmallo]

I'd love to know what Punk was gonna say about Vince and bullying. I hope it was a shoot and he does a full shoot interview when he leaves.

f**k all because it was a complete work.

No chance was it scripted. Vince may have set guidelines for him, just go out and say why your leaving.

I guess that sort of counts as a worked shoot. If Vince had scripted that then there'd have been no mention of ass kissing(from either Cena or the Rock) or anyone not related to the "WWE Universe" at this moment.

Why not?

I noticed that Punk kept saying "I am the best wrestler in the world" As far as I'm aware you're not allowed to say wrestler. It's "Superstar". Punk referred to himself as a wrestler several times.

That was obviously part of the script, to appeal to us internet fans who are the only ones who know/care about the word "wrestler" being a dirty word.

[Deestruction]

I'm trying to think of way to describe it. I reckon it was a pre-planned shoot. No doubt that at the end he was straight shooting,but he was clearly told to do so.

"Worked shoot" is the term.

To me, I'm starting to piece together some of the things he's said and tweeted.

Last week he mentioned the "Summer of Punk" and I talked about it here I think. The SOP was a time where Punk ran with the ROH Title, defeating all comers until James Gibson / Noble defeated him after two months as the corporate champ. Right now, if the WWE HAVE re-signed him, that is exactly what they should do as it would do two key things that is needed right now.

Punk goes over Cena at the PPV

Not happening as Cena will be fired under the stip added on the next Raw.

and cuts one of these "Now I have the title, why don't I just show you that I am better than all of the guys in the back. EVERY show, I will defend this title, time after time, defeating anyone infront of me."

Punk would then proceed to pin cleanly everyone on the roster, and even work a show in Japan for NJPW (against MVP) who WWE have worked with in the past and ROH against Danielson, which in 1997 they done with ECW. This runs all the way to Survivor Series (at MSG) where the WWE have just 1 roster member left, weather this is a face turned Miz, Reilly or someone like Sin Cara, and the payoff is that you then have Punk go 35 minutes with this person, and does the clean job after taking their finish just 1 time. There, you have made Punk a legitimate star and you've turned someone from the midcard to the face of the company.

Punk gets his 3 months off from the Series to Rumble, where he does the whole surprise entrant return winner deal, Cena wins the title from the person you've elevated, which leads to the person Punk lost to at MSG challenging Punk to a match at Mania, for the #1 Contendership.

Mania is simple as fuuck to book from there. Cena Vs Rocky for the title is the main, Punk Vs ElevatedRosterGuy for #1 Contendership, Cena Vs winner at the following SummerSlam, god forbid building a feud up for more than 3 weeks.

Fact of the matter is though, Punk will do the job at the PPV and disappear to RR.

[Shuggie_Murray7]

"Worked shoot" is the term.

No I know the term worked shoot. What I'm trying to say is that it seems like more tha that.

To me, I'm starting to piece together some of the things he's said and tweeted.

Last week he mentioned the "Summer of Punk" and I talked about it here I think. The SOP was a time where Punk ran with the ROH Title, defeating all comers until James Gibson / Noble defeated him after two months as the corporate champ. Right now, if the WWE HAVE re-signed him, that is exactly what they should do as it would do two key things that is needed right now.

Punk goes over Cena at the PPV

Not happening as Cena will be fired under the stip added on the next Raw.

and cuts one of these "Now I have the title, why don't I just show you that I am better than all of the guys in the back. EVERY show, I will defend this title, time after time, defeating anyone infront of me."

Punk would then proceed to pin cleanly everyone on the roster, and even work a show in Japan for NJPW (against MVP) who WWE have worked with in the past and ROH against Danielson, which in 1997 they done with ECW. This runs all the way to Survivor Series (at MSG) where the WWE have just 1 roster member left, weather this is a face turned Miz, Reilly or someone like Sin Cara, and the payoff is that you then have Punk go 35 minutes with this person, and does the clean job after taking their finish just 1 time. There, you have made Punk a legitimate star and you've turned someone from the midcard to the face of the company.

Punk gets his 3 months off from the Series to Rumble, where he does the whole surprise entrant return winner deal, Cena wins the title from the person you've elevated, which leads to the person Punk lost to at MSG challenging Punk to a match at Mania, for the #1 Contendership.

Mania is simple as fuuck to book from there. Cena Vs Rocky for the title is the main, Punk Vs ElevatedRosterGuy for #1 Contendership, Cena Vs winner at the following SummerSlam, god forbid building a feud up for more than 3 weeks.

Fact of the matter is though, Punk will do the job at the PPV and disappear to RR.

As incredible an angle as that would be, you forget one little thing, this is WWE we are talking about. The only guys who get pushes like that are the guys already at the top. They constantly whittle on about no new talent breaking throught, but the reality is, unless you're John Cena, Randy Orton, Undertaker or Triple H, it's never going to happen.

[Deestruction]

No I know the term worked shoot. What I'm trying to say is that it seems like more tha that.

As incredible an angle as that would be, you forget one little thing, this is WWE we are talking about. The only guys who get pushes like that are the guys already at the top. They constantly whittle on about no new talent breaking throught, but the reality is, unless you're John Cena, Randy Orton, Undertaker or Triple H, it's never going to happen.

"Pre-planned shoot" is exactly what a worked shoot is mate, no other terminology for it.

My last line summed it perfectly for us both, the issue we have is that this is the WWE and the only time when you get programs 1 year in the making is when you need to book someone to stop them from taking a film.

[Shuggie_Murray7]

My last line summed it perfectly for us both, the issue we have is that this is the WWE and the only time when you get programs 1 year in the making is when you need to book someone to stop them from taking a film.

God forbid a title run that last more than 2 months.

[DomDom]

I think you're underestimating what WWE see in CM Punk. They are putting a lot of faith in him here. That's what makes it clear that WWE have resigned him. If he was going, they wouldn't have him go with 1) his name and 2) the controversy that he's created. The CM Punk name now means a lot more than it has.

My prediction, and this includes spoilers...

John Cena gets fired if CM Punk leaves the PPV with the belt, right? So CM Punk could win, and then lose that night to a Money in the Bank winner. Sorted. Everyone's happy.

[J_Stewart]

I think you're underestimating what WWE see in CM Punk. They are putting a lot of faith in him here. That's what makes it clear that WWE have resigned him. If he was going, they wouldn't have him go with 1) his name and 2) the controversy that he's created. The CM Punk name now means a lot more than it has.

My prediction, and this includes spoilers...

John Cena gets fired if CM Punk leaves the PPV with the belt, right? So CM Punk could win, and then lose that night to a Money in the Bank winner. Sorted. Everyone's happy.

Would certainly make sense, although I guess it would then have to be a face winning either the Raw or Smackdown ladder match, which considering the faces in the Raw match would maybe suggest continuing Rileys push or turning one of the heels.

Does Cena have any films to shoot coming up? Read a while back he's been working through a good few niggling injuries, so maybe they'll shock us all, have Punk take the title, give Cena some time off and then have him come back a few months down the line and feud for the title with Punk continually just coming up short by Punk's cheating ways. You could get the Rock involved in the build to 'Mania now that Punk has disparaged him as well. That way you could have Punk win the title and keep it before Mania, Punk - Cena at Elimination Chamber where Rock could cost Cena the title. You'd then have your guaranteed Cena - Rock main event, a WWE title match, the World Heavyweight title match and hopefully 'Taker back for a streak match. Job's a good 'un

[DA Baracus]

The stipulation that Cena gets fired if he loses/Punk walks out with the title is a load of shite and potentially destroy a really good angle

Impact last night was actually pretty good. Have TNA finally got their act together? Plenty of matches, most of which were good, and the jibber jabber kept to a minimum. Very good show, which suprised me! The tournament idea is a decent idea (Roode to win, only fannies think it will be Gunner), and really liking the X Division showcase matches. Destination X looks like it will be cracking. Like how Sting is now mental, but didn't like how he absolutely ripped off The Joker, from adding bits to his face paint to speaking in the same style. There's no need for a blatant rip off.

Keep it up TNA!

[djchapsticks]

"Worked shoot" is the term.

To me, I'm starting to piece together some of the things he's said and tweeted.

Last week he mentioned the "Summer of Punk" and I talked about it here I think. The SOP was a time where Punk ran with the ROH Title, defeating all comers until James Gibson / Noble defeated him after two months as the corporate champ. Right now, if the WWE HAVE re-signed him, that is exactly what they should do as it would do two key things that is needed right now.

Punk goes over Cena at the PPV

Not happening as Cena will be fired under the stip added on the next Raw.

and cuts one of these "Now I have the title, why don't I just show you that I am better than all of the guys in the back. EVERY show, I will defend this title, time after time, defeating anyone infront of me."

Punk would then proceed to pin cleanly everyone on the roster, and even work a show in Japan for NJPW (against MVP) who WWE have worked with in the past and ROH against Danielson, which in 1997 they done with ECW. This runs all the way to Survivor Series (at MSG) where the WWE have just 1 roster member left, weather this is a face turned Miz, Reilly or someone like Sin Cara, and the payoff is that you then have Punk go 35 minutes with this person, and does the clean job after taking their finish just 1 time. There, you have made Punk a legitimate star and you've turned someone from the midcard to the face of the company.

Punk gets his 3 months off from the Series to Rumble, where he does the whole surprise entrant return winner deal, Cena wins the title from the person you've elevated, which leads to the person Punk lost to at MSG challenging Punk to a match at Mania, for the #1 Contendership.

Mania is simple as fuuck to book from there. Cena Vs Rocky for the title is the main, Punk Vs ElevatedRosterGuy for #1 Contendership, Cena Vs winner at the following SummerSlam, god forbid building a feud up for more than 3 weeks.

Fact of the matter is though, Punk will do the job at the PPV and disappear to RR.

As glorious as this sounds, it's pissing in the wind. It would genuinely bring back an older fanbase into the bargain as it's such an old school style of booking, it would be a breath of fresh air. It's all one with the PG product, and I've read DomDom saying time and again that there is nothing wrong than drawing in the future fans of wrestling early, and whilst I agree with him, they really do need to win back a large amount of the older fanbase who have either deserted the product, or simply give it a fleeting glance out of curiosity.

The 18-35 demographic would go fucking apeshit for a straight-shooting, straight-edge Punk in an elevated position within the WWE. As has been said, much like Austin.

[forehead7]

Impact last night was actually pretty good. Have TNA finally got their act together? Plenty of matches, most of which were good, and the jibber jabber kept to a minimum. Very good show, which suprised me! The tournament idea is a decent idea (Roode to win, only fannies think it will be Gunner), and really liking the X Division showcase matches. Destination X looks like it will be cracking. Like how Sting is now mental, but didn't like how he absolutely ripped off The Joker, from adding bits to his face paint to speaking in the same style. There's no need for a blatant rip off.

Keep it up TNA!

Must be good if you're liking it!