SNECKSTAGGIE Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 I doubt there will be any delay to any fixtures this weekend because, as the sanction imposed was within the vague and hazy rules, I doubt any appeal will be successful and I am quite sure that appropriate advice was taken before making any decision. As already pointed out by a previous poster, Livingston agreed to abide by the league rules when they joined so the fact that they may throw a tantrum now is not enough grounds for any appeal. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyrshireTon Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Am I right in saying you now have an external backer though? Our losses are written off by Golden Casket (which I would presume that is the deal for the sponsorship). I spoke to our chairman a year ago and he said that the priority of any Chairman is to 1. Ensure the continued existance of the club 2. Put the best team on the park, subject to constraints of the first condition. This suggests that we do not have money poured into us willy-nilly, and relegation would almost certainly mean part time football if we did not come back up straight away. DDFR gave us two seasons to get from the 2nd to the first, but retained full-time football for another season after that (most likely because we had finished 2nd yet lost out in the play-offs). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam68+1 Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Haven't read anything other tha the last page of this thread but I think the SFL have been very harsh indeed. Befre I gt the look at Airdrie bit I think they were harsh then as well although Airdrie had been in administration for years. A few years back Morton were in the hands of an owner who could have put them out of business, Dundee as well so there by the grace of god and all that. If there were genuine football people looking to tke over a 10 point penalty, like the English system, would have been fairer. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigmouth Strikes Again Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 That Kiwi polish is this business. You can see my face in the shine on these dancing shoes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Sensible Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Where is Charles Darwin Esq when you want to laugh at him? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unthinkable Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Why could Livi not start from the 3rd and come back up through the ranks in the same way? Livi's debt is so great that it would be impossible, that is why MacDougall and Rankine were mumping about additional sanctions to the bond would cause them to re-consider investing. Having spent 5 seasons in the 2nd Div, Raith know fine well that there is no money to be made from the lower leagues. Where we got hit in the pocket was from the absence of away supporters. Only 2 bumper East Fife games last year brought us any real extra income and an atmosphere to boot. It would appear that Livi had a new business plan set-up for 1st Div only and maybe they showed that hand too early to the SFL. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoss Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Our losses are written off by Golden Casket (which I would presume that is the deal for the sponsorship).I spoke to our chairman a year ago and he said that the priority of any Chairman is to 1. Ensure the continued existance of the club 2. Put the best team on the park, subject to constraints of the first condition. This suggests that we do not have money poured into us willy-nilly, and relegation would almost certainly mean part time football if we did not come back up straight away. DDFR gave us two seasons to get from the 2nd to the first, but retained full-time football for another season after that (most likely because we had finished 2nd yet lost out in the play-offs). Fair enough, thanks for the info. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoss Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 I wanted to be the one that said this! A good half dozen have said it already so don't be shy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Sensible Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 So are Livi dead yet? I've been polishing my grave dancing shoes and am anxious to do a jig. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamonds2002 Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 So are Livi dead yet?I've been polishing my grave dancing shoes and am anxious to do a jig. I thought you had a bad leg? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mabawsa_Ritchie Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Livi's debt is so great that it would be impossible, that is why MacDougall and Rankine were mumping about additional sanctions to the bond would cause them to re-consider investing. Having spent 5 seasons in the 2nd Div, Raith know fine well that there is no money to be made from the lower leagues. Where we got hit in the pocket was from the absence of away supporters. Only 2 bumper East Fife games last year brought us any real extra income and an atmosphere to boot.It would appear that Livi had a new business plan set-up for 1st Div only and maybe they showed that hand too early to the SFL. I think Morton fans filled your coffers during the two seasons we spent together in the seaside league, including filling the away stand in May 2007. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Has anyone on this 300+ page thread actually seen the business plan that was put forward? It may have been based on 1st division football but was it also based on paying all creditors in full? If not, I don't have much sympathy for the club. They've been knocked down 2 leagues but if the new guys were only going to pay buttons off the outstanding debt, what's their problem? They need to follow the same route as Clyde and get unaffordable players off their books. They can then function in the 3rd without fear of relegation. If the new white knights wanted to save Livi, they'd still do it. If not, they have shown themselves to be just another pair of businessmen with an eye for the main chance. Incidentally, West Lothian does not equate solely to Livingston. The fact that there is no other senior football team in the county does not mean the place is incapable of running a team. They just picked the wrong place (and none of the other towns appears interested in applying). For those who talk about the Livi fan base, ask yourself why there is no senior football team in Glenrothes, East Kilbride or Irvine. All 'new' towns and all bigger than many of their near neighbours where SFL football is embedded. Lack of passion for the game ... no. Generations steeped in supporting the team where their forefathers grew up ... probably. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacWatt Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 East of Scotland League Forum for this pish! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaffenThinMint Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 You seem very bitter and clearly have little understanding of Airdrie's financial situation. Yes, it's called up-shit-creek. You however like to kid yourselves that it's "within our means." It isn't, and deep down you know it. Airdrie, unlike Livingston, have been living within their means for quite some time. That might help to explain why they got 'relegated' last season. Jesus H - come into the real world! Airdrie have managed to avoid relegation by deign of league restructuring three times now, to ever dwindling attendances. As for "living within our means", I seem to remember Ballantyne saying they'd have to go part-time at one stage last year - then backtracking on it on the chance they could be kept in Division 1...and of course failing, meaning more money they could ill afford being blown for nothing. It's time to stop kidding yourselves. One more season's worth of bottom of the table-ville will kill them as sure as it will kill Elgin down in Division 3 - because fans will not go to watch a losing club. Period. It would be far better letting Airdrie have a season as a winning team - even in a lower league. That is why this decision is so utterly stupid. I'd sooner see one club go kaput and the other gets a chance to restructure and live than two - the more likely scenario with today's decision. Seems to me the SFL is determined to kill Airdrie by doing to them what their shorter sighted fans think is "a big favour" when it's like giving a diabetic a bloody Mars Bar! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoss Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Yes, it's called up-shit-creek. You however like to kid yourselves that it's "within our means." It isn't, and deep down you know it.Jesus H - come into the real world! Airdrie have managed to avoid relegation by deign of league restructuring three times now, to ever dwindling attendances. As for "living within our means", I seem to remember Ballantyne saying they'd have to go part-time at one stage last year - then backtracking on it on the chance they could be kept in Division 1...and of course failing, meaning more money they could ill afford being blown for nothing. It's time to stop kidding yourselves. One more season's worth of bottom of the table-ville will kill them as sure as it will kill Elgin down in Division 3 - because fans will not go to watch a losing club. Period. It would be far better letting Airdrie have a season as a winning team - even in a lower league. That is why this decision is so utterly stupid. I'd sooner see one club go kaput and the other gets a chance to restructure and live than two - the more likely scenario with today's decision. Seems to me the SFL is determined to kill Airdrie by doing to them what their shorter sighted fans think is "a big favour" when it's like giving a diabetic a bloody Mars Bar! When were the other two? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaffenThinMint Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 A few years back Morton were in the hands of an owner who could have put them out of business, Dundee as well so there by the grace of god and all that. Indeed - except in Morton's case (and East Stirlingshire as well) they were in the hands of someone deliberately trying to kill the club in order to sell the land and line their pocket. People have short memories in forgetting how easily any club can be thrown into financial chaos c/o a board or chairman that is either daft or dangerous. And it's the fans that pay for it - sometimes with their very club. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaffenThinMint Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Do Airdrie Utd or Cowdenbeath have the right or ability to decline the SFL's 'promotion' ? Since they have both spent the close season building up their squads for the original leagues with players of a certain standard, they both will obviously be at a disadvantage from the outset. Exactly, which is what makes this decision so stupid. At the least, both should say, "you want us up to even your leagues, fine, here's the bill for us having to restructure our entire business plan for the next 12 months c/o your cackhandedness!" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
die hard doonhamer Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Third division forum for this pish. And second division forum for yours 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unthinkable Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 I think Morton fans filled your coffers during the two seasons we spent together in the seaside league, including filling the away stand in May 2007. Yes but fumigating the stands afterwards cost us double what was brought in, you are right but those games were few and far between, two big games a season was the norm hence why we now have a full time/part time hybrid squad. The point is every club has to take it's medicine at some point and suffer before it gets better. Clubs like Livi and Gretna never understood this. Quotes like "relegation is not an option" or "we need to go up this year" were frequently spouted. Running a football club is not rocket science but some clubs budget to succeed only, and that is a dangerous game. The SPL was never a pot of gold and is even less so with Setanta going tits up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyrshireTon Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Exactly, which is what makes this decision so stupid.At the least, both should say, "you want us up to even your leagues, fine, here's the bill for us having to restructure our entire business plan for the next 12 months c/o your cackhandedness!" Actually, I'm sure if they refused, another club (e.g. Brechin) would be "elected" to join the 1st instead. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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