The New Raith Rovers Thread

[Ro Sham Bo]

Wighton will have a good career at Dundee Imo. He has the technical ability just needs to strengthen up and be more confident in front of goal. It's quite ridiculous seeing fellow rovers ripping into an 18 year old like they are! We are spoiled because Vaughan is a better prospect potentially but still.

He's being ripped into because he was crap for us. If he was our signed 18 year old and had performed like that the consensus would be to release him at the end of the season.

[Raith Against The Machine]

Bloody hell, this laddie hasn't even kicked a ball for us yet but everyone is already passing judgment on the guy...

In fairness, it seems to be Hamilton fans putting the boot in, and they've been watching him play.

Certainly we'll need to wait and see how he gets on tonight, but this is a big call for McKinnon. Once Toshney is back our defence should return to its previous solid form, but we need to start scoring goals and the solution doesn't appear to lie within the existing squad. If Longridge does no better than emulating Daly and Wighton, in terms of goals scored, then there are some difficult questions to be answered around Ray's eye for a forward.

[Scottydog]

If Longridge does no better than emulating Daly and Wighton, in terms of goals scored, then there are some difficult questions to be answered around Ray's eye for a forward.

His previous usage seems to suggest he's more of a winger than a centre forward. Just maybe he's been brought in to provide assists more than goals and the goal scorer is still to come? Thats's kinda what I'm pinning my hopes on anyway.

[Scary Bear]

His previous usage seems to suggest he's more of a winger than a centre forward. Just maybe he's been brought in to provide assists more than goals and the goal scorer is still to come? Thats's kinda what I'm pinning my hopes on anyway.

So who will he be providing assists for tonight?

I was assuming he was the forward. Not sure who'll be providing his assists right enough. Craigen? McCord?

[Paco]

He'll be playing up front for the time being you'd have to imagine, until if/when we sign another forward. Same team as Saturday with Stewart and Longridge coming in for Daly and Matthews I reckon, with Megginson moving to the wing.

[Scottydog]

I'd say it has to be assisting Stewart in the main or Megginson at least until the Daley replacement arrives.

Checking out his previous stats he seems to have been used mainly as a left winger despite being right footed, perhaps he likes to cut in on the other foot and shoot,who knows maybe he's Cardle in disguise.

[renton]

One thing to keep in mind is that sometimes the step up is too much for a player. Longridge's stats suggest he was useful at this level previously - so there's that. If you didn't know about John Baird's career prior to his SPL move, and based your opinion solely on his time in the SPL - you certainly woudn't conclude he'd be prolific in the second tier. Likewise, Spence - 2nd top goal scorer in the 3rd tier - based purely on that, gotta be worth a look a level up? Except that we know his goal scoring rate (and his overall game) drops off dramatically in the 2nd tier.

At the end of the day, Longridge will inject some pace into the team, and I imagine we could use him, Stewart and Megginson as a front three, much like how we started the season. Going 4-4-2 doesn't make a huge amount of sense without Anderson and Thomson, for whom that system is geared towards.

[renton]

I'd say it has to be assisting Stewart in the main or Megginson at least until the Daley replacement arrives.

Checking out his previous stats he seems to have been used mainly as a left winger despite being right footed, perhaps he likes to cut in on the other foot and shoot,who knows maybe he's Cardle in disguise.

As far as I can remember, Hamilton under Neil weren't really a 4-4-2 type of team, more a 4-5-1/4-3-3 - so playing as a right footer coming inside and playing off of another forward would make sense.

[Deefiant]

Wighton will have a good career at Dundee Imo. He has the technical ability just needs to strengthen up and be more confident in front of goal. It's quite ridiculous seeing fellow rovers ripping into an 18 year old like they are! We are spoiled because Vaughan is a better prospect potentially but still.

Glad someone recognises he is still just 18.

In the same way I'm biased towards Wighton Rovers fans seem to be towards Lewis Vaughan.

From what I can see he is 2 years older than Wighton, has made a similar number of appearances and scored a comparable number of goals.

He's also not involved in the Scotland set up etc.

I'm sure both will progress to be good players but if your club loan an 18 year old boy and expected him to tear the league up then I'd say your expectations were the problem...

[HIT THE CHANNEL]

Anyone else genuinely at their last tether with postponements/worrying about postponements? I am desperate for us to get a quality 4G pitch and not have to be concerned with any of that nonsense - not to mention the lack of call offs would mean the club didn't face cash flow issues in december and january!

Whoever is in the fans groups - get lobbying for a 4G pitch!

[CALDERON]

Glad someone recognises he is still just 18.

In the same way I'm biased towards Wighton Rovers fans seem to be towards Lewis Vaughan.

From what I can see he is 2 years older than Wighton, has made a similar number of appearances and scored a comparable number of goals.

He's also not involved in the Scotland set up etc.

I'm sure both will progress to be good players but if your club loan an 18 year old boy and expected him to tear the league up then I'd say your expectations were the problem...

No, we expected at least some flashes of the brilliance he apparently had.

He didnt even show the odd moment of quality. He literally offered us absolutely nothing.

[Zen Archer (Raconteur)]

Anyone else genuinely at their last tether with postponements/worrying about postponements? I am desperate for us to get a quality 4G pitch and not have to be concerned with any of that nonsense - not to mention the lack of call offs would mean the club didn't face cash flow issues in december and january!

Whoever is in the fans groups - get lobbying for a 4G pitch!

It doesn't matter the type of pitch, you still require good drainage.

[renton]

Glad someone recognises he is still just 18.

In the same way I'm biased towards Wighton Rovers fans seem to be towards Lewis Vaughan.

From what I can see he is 2 years older than Wighton, has made a similar number of appearances and scored a comparable number of goals.

He's also not involved in the Scotland set up etc.

I'm sure both will progress to be good players but if your club loan an 18 year old boy and expected him to tear the league up then I'd say your expectations were the problem...

It's the fact that he barely looked like a footballer at times that are the issue, not that we expected him to tear up the league. we gave him as much game time as we dared to, often to the detriment of the team. Don't get me wrong, the boy has talent, he's got fantastic close control of the ball, and good positional sense - you only have to look at him flicking the ball over the Falkirk boy's head in the box, turning those two Hibs players on the halfway line or finding Craigen at the back post for the opener against Dumbarton. Beyond that though? He's not a particularly confident finisher of the ball - and he's passed up a couple of gilt edged chances for us, he dissapears from games - he's slow and he's physically slight. You can be one of those - but not both. Granted he can bulk up, but if he makes it for Dundee, it'll be playing a bit farther back on the pitch - I rekcon he might make a decent attacking midfielder.

To compare to Vaughan, who at the same(ish) age in 2013-14 made 11 appearences and scored twice (so twice as many goals in half as many appearances) but critically alst year, when he got a proper run in the team actually DID tear the league up. Great hold up play, happy to play with his back to goal, great movement and great close control, always looking to bring others in and always demanding the ball, aye, he's 12-18 months older than Wighton, but he looks twice the player based on what we saw of him last year prior to injury and playing in that number ten role.

if we are comparing expectations, it's worth noting that Dundee recalled him due to him not getting enough game time, so it would seem your own management expected him to be more regular for Raith, and he's not been. We gave him every chance but unfortunately he never showed enough outside the odd piece of trickery to make us think he was worth more game time.

Edited January 12, 2016 by renton

[Ebanda's Handyman Services]

Anyone else genuinely at their last tether with postponements/worrying about postponements? I am desperate for us to get a quality 4G pitch and not have to be concerned with any of that nonsense - not to mention the lack of call offs would mean the club didn't face cash flow issues in december and january!

Whoever is in the fans groups - get lobbying for a 4G pitch!

The 4G has been touted but there are overheads outwith the club's budget to regard.

The pitch installation would be around 500k and then you have the maintenance every 5 years (I'm sure) which costs around 100k.

With both Balwearie and KHS having good facilities there's no guarantee that folk would use Stark's Park through the week as well.

Might happen some time. Cannae see it being any time soon though.

[HIT THE CHANNEL]

The 4G has been touted but there are overheads outwith the club's budget to regard.

The pitch installation would be around 500k and then you have the maintenance every 5 years (I'm sure) which costs around 100k.

With both Balwearie and KHS having good facilities there's no guarantee that folk would use Stark's Park through the week as well.

Might happen some time. Cannae see it being any time soon though.

So we would need to wait for a cup run or something to get it down?

The maintenence would pay for itself, however. I saw on the Falkirk thread they make around 80k a year! Also I think more folk would rather play at starks that a highschool if the price was the same? Plus we would not have to pay anything for all of our first/youth team training and many matches.

If we can get the pitch down it will make us money, surely? Any c**t got 500k? you will get it back in 6 years?

[Hank Scorpio]

The 4G has been touted but there are overheads outwith the club's budget to regard.

The pitch installation would be around 500k and then you have the maintenance every 5 years (I'm sure) which costs around 100k.

With both Balwearie and KHS having good facilities there's no guarantee that folk would use Stark's Park through the week as well.

Might happen some time. Cannae see it being any time soon though.

I'd heard a bit of patter about John Sim and a 4G pitch, but the aforementioned problems are a stumbling block.

[Zen Archer (Raconteur)]

So we would need to wait for a cup run or something to get it down?

The maintenence would pay for itself, however. I saw on the Falkirk thread they make around 80k a year! Also I think more folk would rather play at starks that a highschool if the price was the same? Plus we would not have to pay anything for all of our first/youth team training and many matches.

If we can get the pitch down it will make us money, surely? Any c**t got 500k? you will get it back in 6 years?

Turnbull Hutton once mentioned that it cost £400 per game to use the floodlights, I dread to think what the pitch hire would cost for an evening.

Also there are neighbour issues to contend with regarding the lights being on every night of the week, planning permission was denied for pitches and lighting at Bell Baxter High School for this very reason.

[Deefiant]

It's the fact that he barely looked like a footballer at times that are the issue, not that we expected him to tear up the league. we gave him as much game time as we dared to, often to the detriment of the team. Don't get me wrong, the boy has talent, he's got fantastic close control of the ball, and good positional sense - you only have to look at him flicking the ball over the Falkirk boy's head in the box, turning those two Hibs players on the halfway line or finding Craigen at the back post for the opener against Dumbarton. Beyond that though? He's not a particularly confident finisher of the ball - and he's passed up a couple of gilt edged chances for us, he dissapears from games - he's slow and he's physically slight. You can be one of those - but not both. Granted he can bulk up, but if he makes it for Dundee, it'll be playing a bit farther back on the pitch - I rekcon he might make a decent attacking midfielder.

To compare to Vaughan, who at the same(ish) age in 2013-14 made 11 appearences and scored twice (so twice as many goals in half as many appearances) but critically alst year, when he got a proper run in the team actually DID tear the league up. Great hold up play, happy to play with his back to goal, great movement and great close control, always looking to bring others in and always demanding the ball, aye, he's 12-18 months older than Wighton, but he looks twice the player based on what we saw of him last year prior to injury and playing in that number ten role.

if we are comparing expectations, it's worth noting that Dundee recalled him due to him not getting enough game time, so it would seem your own management expected him to be more regular for Raith, and he's not been. We gave him every chance but unfortunately he never showed enough outside the odd piece of trickery to make us think he was worth more game time.

Fair post - I think most Dundee fans are beginning to see Wighton as the natural successor to Gary Harkins as opposed to a future centre forward for us so perhaps that's the problem.

I think he has been physically quite dominant growing up (certainly taller than most) which probably helped him playing up front at youth level but you will get no argument from me that he still needs a fair bit of physical development for the mans game is trying to break in to. He's at that awkward stage where he is too good to really benefit from youth football but not good enough to be a regular at Championship/Premiership level.

He was never going to come and score a hatful of goals so if that's what you expected I can see why you may be disappointed. From what I can gather from following his loan spell on your threads, the fans turned on him quite quickly when he never started in a blaze of glory. At that age confidence is king and perhaps that then held him back. I will say almost every time he has played for our first team at Championship and Premiership level he has looked comfortable and/or influenced the game (barring a dead rubber vs Celtic where he was chucked in at 17 and toiled). That may come as a side effect of the positive backing for "one of our own" where he is allowed to make a mistake or 3 without people turning on him very quickly.

On a side note, I have never seen the boy Vaughan play (unless he did in the cup game last season?) but noticed his scoring exploits - how long til he's back from the knee injury? Hopefully has no long term implications for him - nothing better than seeing one of your youth products break through.

[renton]

Fair post - I think most Dundee fans are beginning to see Wighton as the natural successor to Gary Harkins as opposed to a future centre forward for us so perhaps that's the problem.

I think he has been physically quite dominant growing up (certainly taller than most) which probably helped him playing up front at youth level but you will get no argument from me that he still needs a fair bit of physical development for the mans game is trying to break in to. He's at that awkward stage where he is too good to really benefit from youth football but not good enough to be a regular at Championship/Premiership level.

He was never going to come and score a hatful of goals so if that's what you expected I can see why you may be disappointed. From what I can gather from following his loan spell on your threads, the fans turned on him quite quickly when he never started in a blaze of glory. At that age confidence is king and perhaps that then held him back. I will say almost every time he has played for our first team at Championship and Premiership level he has looked comfortable and/or influenced the game (barring a dead rubber vs Celtic where he was chucked in at 17 and toiled). That may come as a side effect of the positive backing for "one of our own" where he is allowed to make a mistake or 3 without people turning on him very quickly.

On a side note, I have never seen the boy Vaughan play (unless he did in the cup game last season?) but noticed his scoring exploits - how long til he's back from the knee injury? Hopefully has no long term implications for him - nothing better than seeing one of your youth products break through.

Yeah, he's got it in him to be decent in that Harkins role behind the strikers, and given McKinnon's penchant for a more fluid attacking formation at the beginning of the season, that may have well been his intention before Vaughan's injury forced a change on us. As to his confidence, I duuno - I sit at the back of the and their wasn't any universal cries of derision aimed at him, maybe down the front there was folk giving him grief wehere he could hear it - of course you get folk on here who take 15 minutes to decide that a player has no redeeming features whatsoever and will be forever shite. I think it's more that we asked him to play as a forward and against championship midfields and defences he struggled to find space for himself, or outmuscle/outpace those defenders.

We ar ehoping Vaughan might make the last month or two of the season, it's ahuge setback for him as he was coming into the season off of a really good run of games, not just goals but performances and we all thought this would be his year.

[Scottydog]

If a 4g pitch was layed without sorting the drainage issues, games would still be postponed.

Just out of curiosity where would the money coming from to pay for a new surface?

I believe the estimated outlay for new pitch and dressing rooms is somewhere between £150-250K.