Raith Against The Machine Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 If the Rovers win their next game 5-0, there'll be a lot more enthusiasm for fundraising. Such is life. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CALDERON Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 On a random note, I'm watching my local highland league team and already seen two people at the game with Rovers hats on. WTF 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGQ FAE KDY Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 (edited) More negativity scary and i dont see you making much effort to help out with ideas or get involved.All football clubs need funding outwith what comes through the gate so if done properly the fans can raise 1000s of additional £s.The forum as far as i am concerned are 4 fans groups who do their own thing plus i am not sure what is said when they have a meeting. Edited October 8, 2011 by BIGQ FAE KDY 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Bear Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 (edited) More negativity scary and i dont see you making much effort to help out with ideas or get involved. All football clubs need funding outwith what comes through the gate so if done properly the fans can raise 1000s of additional £s.The forum as far as i am concerned are 4 fans groups who do their own thing plus i am not sure what is said when they have a meeting. That's because I don't want to get involved this time as my circumstances have changed and I do not have loads of spare time. I gave an idea - start selling half-season tickets again. Raith Rovers are a business and the majority of the shares are owned by businessmen. I helped out last time as I wanted to see the club become a 'community club' owned by fans. What we actually have is a club still owned by businessmen and still badly run, so that it keeps making a loss, despite two successful seasons. If the board can't turn a profit when we're challenging for the league title and reaching the semi-final of the Scottish Cup then we're knackered. I did get involved last time in 2005. I was involved in flogging DVDs, took part in PAYE, played Roary's Lotto, joined the Trust and donated £200. All things being relative, my £200 was fairly generous given that Gogs Broon only donated £5,000 and he's minted. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article573780.ece For the moment I'll just attend games pay my £17 and leave the running of the club to the supposedly experienced businessmen. Apologies for the negativity. Maybe it's the weather. Edited October 8, 2011 by Scary Bear 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGQ FAE KDY Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 ok fair enough 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mij Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 I'm sure this is just a typo but I heard you the first time Yes, you are wrong. I was at the meeting and heard the whole exchange. JD did raise some good questions but to me it was pretty clear he was angry particularly near the end of his contribution. Whether that's about his good work going to waste or the circumstances around his removal only he knows. It seemed pretty personal between him and TH so I assumed it was at least in part some of the latter but I could be wrong. I don't think any figures were 'ripped apart' but then it's all about opinion. No great surprise there was more money coming in JD's day. It's probably a pretty safe assumption to make that if generating crowds is getting harder them generating commercial income is as well. No idea why the new commercial guy wasn't there but isnt he fairly new anyway so not sure he would have been much help. No great surprise that TH or other directors aren't across the ins and outs of the commercial side in terms of figures so i think that's why JD's points went unanswered rather than some great conspiracy. As I said I have nothing against JD and as you say he is Rovers through and through but I find it hard to believe that someone whose services have been let go and not by mutual consent it would seem wouldn't harbour some degree of resentment to the people who made that decision. Maybe I'm wrong and he's a better person than most other people would be in that situation. If he is then fair play to him. I'm just going on my own interpretation of the discussion and my experience of dealing with the commercial side over a few years. I think Chris Lumsden noticeably improved things in the area I dealt with. So I don't start from the point that everything was a smoothly oiled money making machine under JD. As I said I think the commercial and marketing has always been a bit poor. Again I'd stress none of this is having a go at JD. Just a different perception of the exchange at the meeting. Agree to disagree then but will pick up on one point and thats the bit about TH or other directors not knowing the ins and outs of the commercial side in terms of figures .Sorry but the fact TH etc were banging on about almost everything financial regarding the club i would expect them to know the figures of the commercial side .Now the either know or were too embarrassed to say when questioned by JD . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roverthemoon Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 Scary - £17 is far too much for what is on offer. I'm sure we'd all agree on that. But the only significant question is would dropping the prices make enough of a difference in crowds to offset the resultant loss of income. Probably not and given the god awful financial situation at the club it's not going to be a risk that the club will take 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Bear Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 (edited) Scary - £17 is far too much for what is on offer. I'm sure we'd all agree on that. But the only significant question is would dropping the prices make enough of a difference in crowds to offset the resultant loss of income. Probably not and given the god awful financial situation at the club it's not going to be a risk that the club will take Well, someone should tell the board. If we all know that £17 is too much for what's on offer, why is anyone surprised that crowds are down or that we can't attract new fans? Edited October 8, 2011 by Scary Bear 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovers_Lad Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 For the moment I'll just attend games pay my £17 and leave the running of the club to the supposedly experienced businessmen. Apologies for the negativity. Maybe it's the weather. Shud that not be some of the games depending on the weather,going to the bookies,buying DVDs,watching sky sports,pulling your plonker? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Archer (Raconteur) Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 Scary - £17 is far too much for what is on offer. I'm sure we'd all agree on that. But the only significant question is would dropping the prices make enough of a difference in crowds to offset the resultant loss of income. Probably not and given the god awful financial situation at the club it's not going to be a risk that the club will take Some times the fare on offer at Starks Park does not meet everyones expectations and in the current finacial doldrums £17 is a lot, but I am happy to pay the fee. When you go to Dens Park and are robbed of £19, that is just taking the piss. The board cannot restructure the gate fee any lower at this moment in time, as the result would be suicide for the club. Perhaps if everyone that pays the money gets behind the team, (instead of the boo boys that turn Starks Park sour), and maybe the team will turn in better home performances, after all, positive criticism is better than the alternative. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Bear Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 Shud that not be some of the games depending on the weather,going to the bookies,buying DVDs,watching sky sports,pulling your plonker? No, it shouldn't. I don't have Sky Sports anymore and I rarely get to pull my plonker anymore. Apart from that you're about right. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roverthemoon Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 Well, someone should tell the board. If we all know that £17 is too much for what's on offer, why is anyone surprised that crowds are down or that we can't attract new fans? But will dropping it to £15, £12 or £10 generate enough crowds to cover the loss of the diehards paying £2, £5 or £7. That's the financial question. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Bear Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 But will dropping it to £15, £12 or £10 generate enough crowds to cover the loss of the diehards paying £2, £5 or £7. That's the financial question. Where does that kind of thinking end? Do the board just keep on increasing the prices every year and hoping the same mugs keep paying? If the admission price is too expensive, then trying cutting down on some of the business costs. We agree the admission price is too expensive, so it's unreasonable of the board to expect crowds to increase when they are offering poor football and high admission prices. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roverthemoon Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 As I've said before I'd only pay the wages we could cover through income generated. The result is we'd drop to the third division probably. Would fans accept that? Would that entice more fans in? The people I know who have stopped going, It's because the standard of football not the price. Reduce the price, reduce the wages, poorer quality of player. Will that entice people back? I've an open mind to any suggestions but I'm not convinced cutting the admission prices would help the club at all. Could be wrong. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Bear Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 As I've said before I'd only pay the wages we could cover through income generated. The result is we'd drop to the third division probably. Would fans accept that? Would that entice more fans in? Going to the third division wouldn't be great but i'd accept it. Would it entice more fans, no. The people I know who have stopped going, It's because the standard of football not the price. Reduce the price, reduce the wages, poorer quality of player. Will that entice people back? The standard of football is definitely the main reason people don't show up. However, when people ask how much it is to get in and I say £17, that generally has them shaking their head and saying "for the Rovers!". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raith Against The Machine Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 Did Motherwell not try axing their prices at one point, and found it made very little difference to the actual attendance numbers? I don't think there are many people sitting at home on a Saturday afternoon who don't go because it's £17 but would if it was £15, or £13 or £10. You might find that at a tenner, more "die-hard fans" who are absolutely skint will be able to turn out more often, but even then, if they go to three games as opposed to only two, the club still loses out by £4. Football isn't price sensitive, not really. The perfect price, for the club, is one whereby most fans are still going, but they're saying "This is pretty expensive...". I think that's the point we're at. Is there anyone who wants to go to see the Rovers, can afford to, and chooses not to because ideologically it costs too much? I don't think so. There might be a few people who'd like to think they're in that category, but as I touched on before, I think even if the Rovers halved the admission fee you'd still find these guys on the golf course/in the Mercat on a Saturday afternoon once the initial boost had died down. It's very obvious, but to improve the numbers through the gate, the product must be improved. Ergo, the team needs to pull in results. If the Rovers were winning every game 8-0, the place would be packed. Of course, that's easier said then done and essentially it's uncontrollable. Frankly, I think a lot of it is down to perception. Football is all about escapism. It should be something that people can align themselves with to share in a sense of togetherness and shared success. Right now, the club are putting out almost nothing but doom-mongering. Who wants to escape to somewhere/be associated with all this negativity? Masochists like us, my friends, and damn few others. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Bear Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 (edited) Did Motherwell not try axing their prices at one point, and found it made very little difference to the actual attendance numbers? I don't think there are many people sitting at home on a Saturday afternoon who don't go because it's £17 but would if it was £15, or £13 or £10. You might find that at a tenner, more "die-hard fans" who are absolutely skint will be able to turn out more often, but even then, if they go to three games as opposed to only two, the club still loses out by £4. Football isn't price sensitive, not really. The perfect price, for the club, is one whereby most fans are still going, but they're saying "This is pretty expensive...". I think that's the point we're at. Is there anyone who wants to go to see the Rovers, can afford to, and chooses not to because ideologically it costs too much? I don't think so. There might be a few people who'd like to think they're in that category, but as I touched on before, I think even if the Rovers halved the admission fee you'd still find these guys on the golf course/in the Mercat on a Saturday afternoon once the initial boost had died down. It's very obvious, but to improve the numbers through the gate, the product must be improved. Ergo, the team needs to pull in results. If the Rovers were winning every game 8-0, the place would be packed. Of course, that's easier said then done and essentially it's uncontrollable. Frankly, I think a lot of it is down to perception. Football is all about escapism. It should be something that people can align themselves with to share in a sense of togetherness and shared success. Right now, the club are putting out almost nothing but doom-mongering. Who wants to escape to somewhere/be associated with all this negativity? Masochists like us, my friends, and damn few others. Yes Motherwell did. Check out Soccerbase attendances for Motherwell v Dundee United in season 98/99 http://www.soccerbase.com/teams/head_to_head.sd?team_id=1734&team2_id=740 11,000 in the first game where prices were dropped. 6,000 for the second game. In general though, I agree. It's not like hundreds of additional Rovers fans would turn up on a regular basis if prices were dropped and we're probably at the point where most current fans are saying "this is pretty expensive..." but still turning up. It'll be interesting to see what happens with admission prices at clubs over the next few seasons and how this affects attendances. Edited October 8, 2011 by Scary Bear 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoBNob Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 How active an effort do Raith Rovers make to get the people through the gates? Just wondering because Kirkcaldy is (ever so slightly) bigger than Dunfermline, and yet they just don't seem to want to respond to the Rovers, certainly I'd be wanting more off an attendance for the size of the place. This is not a windup btw, just wondering, it's sad and worrying times when you have Raith Rovers looking over there shoulders because of finances. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broken Algorithms Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 How active an effort do Raith Rovers make to get the people through the gates? Just wondering because Kirkcaldy is (ever so slightly) bigger than Dunfermline, and yet they just don't seem to want to respond to the Rovers, certainly I'd be wanting more off an attendance for the size of the place. This is not a windup btw, just wondering, it's sad and worrying times when you have Raith Rovers looking over there shoulders because of finances. I've often wondered the same. Given we also have 39,000 or so up at Glenrothes too, as well as coastal towns like Kinghorn and Burntisland we should be getting more fans. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CALDERON Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 Raith rovers, as a club and a business, do very very little to get new folk through the gates. That's where a large part of the problem is. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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