The New Raith Rovers Thread

[Michael W]

I, for one, wouldn't have given a shit if we'd played a greatly weakend team last night and lost. It's hard to get excited about a win when we're being patronised by the SPFL and being made to play Aberdeen fucking Colts to fulfill the wishes of Malky Mackay and his Project Brave pish. 

The league is what matters - the club needs promotion and doesn't need a loss-making competition that has been devalued and altered against the continued wishes of supporters on several occassions. It's a big injury risk for what I can see as being for little reward, unless the chance to play Borehamwood or a tin pot outfit best known for having its fat f**k backup goalkeeper fired for spot fixing counts as excitement. 

Yes, injuries are "unlucky". However, unneccessary chances should not be taken with them given how pre-season went. Wedderburn needs game time, accepted, but is two games in three days really wise? 

For me, we didn't rest as many players as we should've. Anyone who didn't start against Stenny should've started last night (even the 'keeper - presumably Wright's finger has relocated back where it needs to be?). 

[renton]

12 minutes ago, Michael W said:

I, for one, wouldn't have given a shit if we'd played a greatly weakend team last night and lost. It's hard to get excited about a win when we're being patronised by the SPFL and being made to play Aberdeen fucking Colts to fulfill the wishes of Malky Mackay and his Project Brave pish. 

The league is what matters - the club needs promotion and doesn't need a loss-making competition that has been devalued and altered against the continued wishes of supporters on several occassions. It's a big injury risk for what I can see as being for little reward, unless the chance to play Borehamwood or a tin pot outfit best known for having its fat f**k backup goalkeeper fired for spot fixing counts as excitement. 

Yes, injuries are "unlucky". However, unneccessary chances should not be taken with them given how pre-season went. Wedderburn needs game time, accepted, but is two games in three days really wise? 

For me, we didn't rest as many players as we should've. Anyone who didn't start against Stenny should've started last night (even the 'keeper - presumably Wright's finger has relocated back where it needs to be?). 

I suppose the the trade off is risking an injury in a cup game vs. getting him up to speed for the league game.  He had a really mixed game against Stenny (and was pish against Stranraer) and if last night's run out blew away a few more cobwebs without ruling him out for Saturday it'll probably have been worth it.

Had our pre-season not been so broken up by injury issues, and had we a full and fit squad going into the Stranraer game, I'd be all for playing 11 training cones (one of which was ineligible due to having Kirkcaldy YM written in permanent marker on it's side) and getting the hell out of it, as it was last night was a good chance to bring some boys up to speed.  Happy to crash out in the next round.

Edited August 15, 2018 by renton

[Broken Algorithms]

 

15 minutes ago, Michael W said:

I, for one, wouldn't have given a shit if we'd played a greatly weakend team last night and lost. It's hard to get excited about a win when we're being patronised by the SPFL and being made to play Aberdeen fucking Colts to fulfill the wishes of Malky Mackay and his Project Brave pish. 

This is spot on btw. Moreso given we won it in one of the years where it had some relevance. That day where we beat Rangers was incredible, but it's been pointless since that.

[McGuigan1978]

I also expected Stevenson and Berry to start last night, and find it mind-boggling that they didn’t come on whilst 3-0 up, but as much as folk are suggesting they couldn’t care less how the game had panned out, I do wonder what the reaction would have been if we’d been the only league side other than Clyde to lose to a bunch of development jobbers?

 

Despite what I’ve read on here, I’m struggling to believe we’d have had a laissez faire attitude to a defeat.

 

With that in mind, and the fact that that Aberdeen team beat Arbroath pretty convincingly in a friendly just a few weeks ago, maybe Smith just didn’t want to take any chances? And if so, I can kind of understand, if not wholly approve.

 

[Ro Sham Bo]

5 hours ago, SuperHans said:

 

Were you there last night?

Aberdeen Colts were no mugs. If anything, it was the younger players (Matthews the exception) who I think had the poorest performances. That's understandable at their level of experience but with a few more youngsters in the team and a few less experienced players then last nights result and performance could have been different.

We really turned it on for 15 mins and got what was needed to win the game but that Aberdeen side weren't poor.

Smith did the right thing to keep the nucleus of the starting 11 together with a few additions. Onwards and upwards I think.

 

No I wasn't there but I'm pretty confident they would've been beatable even with Berry and Stevenson playing. And I certainly don't believe we would've thrown away a 3 goal lead by introducing them with 30 minutes to go.

[Scottydog]

1 hour ago, Ro Sham Bo said:

No I wasn't there but I'm pretty confident they would've been beatable even with Berry and Stevenson playing. And I certainly don't believe we would've thrown away a 3 goal lead by introducing them with 30 minutes to go.

To be honest I wouldn’t care if we had thrown the lead and bombed out. It’s a total nonsense tournament and we’d be better off out of it.

Only played 1 game and 3 guys limped off at ft, Duggan might be ok but both Wedderburn and Murray are serious doubts for the following league game. Too hefty a price to pay (too many games with injury potential)  with a limited squad for no real monetary gain. Get out of it sharpish before we lose key players like we did last season, why don’t we ever learn?

[Wardy]

I’d rather we didn’t get hauled up to the SPFL for throwing a game either though to be perfectly honest. 

I get both sides of the arguement, but say Murray didn’t play last night, yet then proceeded to get injured against East Fife and was doubtful for the Airdrie game the following week? It’s essentially the same thing?  If you take that view, then essentially you’re going into every game scared of getting injured? What’s the use in that?

Whether it’s a diddy Cup game or a league game it’s pretty irrelevant. It’s not like it’s the end of the season and we’re getting players injured in bounce games with 5 games to go. We’re 2 league games in FFS. 

I know our injury problems are a total joke though, and we arguably should be weakening our team in these competitions. 

So to conclude, I personally wouldn’t have been that bothered if we lost last night, but we could have lost and still had someone injured? We couldn’t have filled the whole team with youngsters last night anyway. We don’t have the squad for it. 

 

[Scottydog]

We all have our own thoughts on this and I disagree with you.  Wardy  you used the phrase “diddy Cup” and that’s just what it is. Promotion is our be all and end all here, League games are what it’s all about for us not the league cup that is nigh impossible for us to progress in and certainly not a the alien Bru trophy that in most games the club loses money in participating in. To a lesser extent the Scottish Cup is the same but as it has the potential of making a few £££s for us, IMO it alone of the 3 should to be taken seriously.

Edited August 15, 2018 by Scottydog

[SuperHans]

There's points from both sides. It's done now and personally I think the team and management benefited from the result and performance. The 'injuries' have been described as 'knocks' so it was hardly like anyone was stretchered or even subbed off for that matter. We do seem to be getting ourselves worked up over protecting players and worrying about them getting hurt. If they'd played that game as a bounce closed door match (which is common this time of season) then would there be any difference.

 

I want us to win every game we play regardless of the competition or opponents. Obviously, it won't always happen but we went out with intent last night and it was good to see.

 

[Zen Archer (Raconteur)]

Regarding losing money, the Challenge Cup will always cost most teams money.

Turnbull and Eric IIRC stated that despite winning the cup the club were still in the red if expenditure for the tournament was held in isolation.

[Michael W]

1 hour ago, Wardy said:

 

I get both sides of the arguement, but say Murray didn’t play last night, yet then proceeded to get injured against East Fife and was doubtful for the Airdrie game the following week? It’s essentially the same thing?  If you take that view, then essentially you’re going into every game scared of getting injured? What’s the use in that? 

 

I don't think that's an equal comparison. The league is our priority and we're looking to win it: we need to be at full strength as much as possible, and our best players should play when fit. 

A low-priority, midweek cup game against a Colt side? Play the youngsters and rest key players. Save them for the league campaign. Better to give the younger players a shot when the pressure's off a little. 

 

11 minutes ago, Zen Archer said:

Regarding losing money, the Challenge Cup will always cost most teams money.

Turnbull and Eric IIRC stated that despite winning the cup the club were still in the red if expenditure for the tournament was held in isolation.

Proof that the competition needs to be binned, if even the winners can't make a profit from a sell out at Easter Road. Genuinely appalling. 

Also furthers my belief that we should just chuck it. The SPFL/SFA see fit to piss around with the tournament, so why shouldn't we? 

[Beastie Russell]

7 hours ago, Zen Archer said:

Regarding losing money, the Challenge Cup will always cost most teams money.

Turnbull and Eric IIRC stated that despite winning the cup the club were still in the red if expenditure for the tournament was held in isolation.

We failed to make a profit the year we came second in the championship, do we bin that competition (if we get back to that level again?). Wasn’t the over spend due to our bonus structure, where the players won more win bonuses than we could afford to pay ?

Perhaps our inability to make a profit is more of a sign of our lack of financial nous,  than any gauge on a competition.

[Michael W]

I remember that well - everyone on here went ballistic about it. An £80k loss if I remember rightly? Pretty sure the club ended up hosting a meeting due to the outrage generated. 

However, the lesson was learned and I think we posted a profit in the three subsequent seasons following that? The league is profitable if the budget is sensible. If you win the Challenge Cup and still lose money on it...

 

[GhostZapper]

1 hour ago, Michael W said:

I remember that well - everyone on here went ballistic about it. An £80k loss if I remember rightly? Pretty sure the club ended up hosting a meeting due to the outrage generated. 

However, the lesson was learned and I think we posted a profit in the three subsequent seasons following that? The league is profitable if the budget is sensible. If you win the Challenge Cup and still lose money on it...

 

Which 3 seasons did we post a profit????????

Edited August 16, 2018 by GhostZapper

[kev23]

Which 3 seasons did we post a profit????????

Im not sure if it was 3 seasons , but i definitely remember 2.
http://www.raithrovers.net/11974/rovers-post-81k-profit-for-2012-2013.htm
http://www.raithrovers.net/17056/statement-by-the-board-of-directors.htm

[Beachbum]

Worth a look to see how the new pitch was put together.

 

[Zen Archer (Raconteur)]

4 hours ago, Beastie Russell said:

We failed to make a profit the year we came second in the championship, do we bin that competition (if we get back to that level again?). Wasn’t the over spend due to our bonus structure, where the players won more win bonuses than we could afford to pay ?

Perhaps our inability to make a profit is more of a sign of our lack of financial nous,  than any gauge on a competition.

I didn't advocate binning any competition, I retold an overheard comment from previous board members.

[Scottydog]

Sorry I may be blinded by the logic of it but if either:

A. You are operating with a ridiculously small pool of 1st team players and the league is your priority.

Or

B. Playing in the competition is financially loss making.

Then you seriously consider whether you should be playing in it.

If however it's both A & B then its an absolute no brainer, you get out of it ASAP.

[GhostZapper]

1 hour ago, kev23 said:

Im not sure if it was 3 seasons , but i definitely remember 2.
http://www.raithrovers.net/11974/rovers-post-81k-profit-for-2012-2013.htm
http://www.raithrovers.net/17056/statement-by-the-board-of-directors.htm

bear in mind, they snuck a prior year adjustment of £256k into the 2015 accounts, as they weren't accounting for Rent! That surely negated any profit made.

[GhostZapper]

Surely if a competition is loss making, we shouldn't enter it?

If we are drawn away to an irish, welsh, or English team, is there any scope for us to say - "sorry - simply can't afford to fulfil this tie - we forfit" Can we do that?