The New Raith Rovers Thread

[Brashy's Boots]

http://www.deadlinenews.co.uk/2016/02/08/raith-rovers-boosted-as-teenager-david-bates-pens-new-deal/

McKinnon gave Bates a new contract in February 2016, and 15 appearances over the season. Among his quotes are ‘tremendous’ and ‘a great future in the game’. Doesn’t sound like someone who doesn’t rate Bates to me. Maybe didn’t think he’d be playing for Scotland in less than three years, but clearly thought he was good enough for a top-end Championship side.

I suppose the options here are either McKinnon didn’t really rate him, or the board are trying to make excuses for their blunder. Wonder what it might be.

Board member was challenged on that very point - McKinnon gave him a contract - and the response implied it was for peanuts. A higher rated player would have received more.

We'll never know.

[Kdawg]

Just to play devils advocate, surely no one could have invisaged Bates going on to be a Scotland player within a couple of years when he was with us. We had Bene, Toshney, Davidson and Barr who were all miles ahead of him at the time. Apart from one good game at right back, I can’t think of another game he impressed in. If anything, it should be Rangers that are left angry, it was them that really developed him.

Edited November 30, 2018 by Kdawg

[Raithie]

Just now, Kdawg said:

Just to play devils advocate, surely no one could have invisaged Bates going on to be a Scotland player within a couple of years when he was with us. We had Bene, Toshney, Davidson and Barr who were all miles ahead of him at the time. Apart from one good game at right back, I can’t think of another game he impressed in. If anything, it should the Rangers that are left angry, it was them that really developed him.

This. For the amount of times I saw Bates play for us I can't say I was overly impressed and wouldn't have envisaged him moving to clubs like Rangers or Hamburg as well as getting a Scotland call up.

[Scary Bear]

27 minutes ago, Kdawg said:

Just to play devils advocate, surely no one could have invisaged Bates going on to be a Scotland player within a couple of years when he was with us. We had Bene, Toshney, Davidson and Barr who were all miles ahead of him at the time. Apart from one good game at right back, I can’t think of another game he impressed in. If anything, it should be Rangers that are left angry, it was them that really developed him.

He was better at centre half. We used him as an emergency right back. Personally, I thought he looked a player in his first(?) game against Cowdenbeath in the diddy cup where he partnered Jason Thomson in central defence. I agree that it’s Rangers that believed in him and brought him on as a player. Shocking thing for me is the lack of vision, or poor talent spotting, from our managers of the time. Doesn’t cover them in glory.

[bobbykdy]

3 hours ago, Paco said:

I like the way everyone on the board at the time has tried to pass the buck on Bates/Vaughan to Gary Locke.

Maybe one day, one of them will be able to join the dots.

In both cases neither were going to play under the manager at that time, that was down to him, no one else. In the case of Vaughan he needed game time and should have been getting it at Rovers, when it became apparent that wasn't going to happen we couldn't just let him rot away in the reserves or on the bench. Where the board did screw up was with where they allowed him to go on loan to but if Locke hadn't taken a disliking to the boy for whatever reason none of it would have happened.

[Broken Algorithms]

Got to admit that I don't think anyone realistically thought Bates would do as well as he has. Tbh, even at Rangers there was an air of right place, right time with Senderos being utterly rotten, and a lack of centre halves. Going to Hamburg seems to have done him wonders and moving forward I hope it encourages more young Scottish players to go abroad.

I think the problem with that deal was the way it came out. It went through, then Locke was in the Record saying we got nothing for him. Then Drysale is on the website saying that we set it up based on future fees and loaning back Thompson and Hardie, and swapping Scott Roberts. He then had a dig at our fans for not getting behind the team, at a time where we hadn't won a game since October and the club were actively promoting a hospitality package against Hearts which conveniently included a Q&A with a manager nobody had wanted us to appoint and Rudi Skacel.

The Vaughan decision probably still tops Bates Tbf. Nobody at the club stopped to say, "loan him out by all means but why is it to a club 4 points behind us?". Vaughan's talent was there for all to see, but he'd been out of form. I don't think it's a secret that Vaughan and Locke didn't get along. The fans saw what was coming a mile off. It was indefensible and the likes of Drysdale and Young should never be allowed to forget how much they fucked up that season.

Thank f**k we've got McGlynn back.

[Zen Archer (Raconteur)]

2 hours ago, Brashy's Boots said:

12 hours ago, Zen Archer said:

In which case I'll have you down as the chap banging a solo drum about concerts.

As long as you think that I shall remain incognito.

[Raith Against The Machine]

Just to play devils advocate, surely no one could have invisaged Bates going on to be a Scotland player within a couple of years when he was with us. We had Bene, Toshney, Davidson and Barr who were all miles ahead of him at the time. Apart from one good game at right back, I can’t think of another game he impressed in. If anything, it should be Rangers that are left angry, it was them that really developed him.

Perhaps there was a clue when Rangers wanted to sign him in the first place?

[Alyn Stevenson]

I agree that Bates didn’t look levels above ourselves when playing for us, and maybe Locke didn’t rate or think he would progress to the level he is at now but surely when someone like Rangers are contacting us about signing him we would’ve thought maybe he’s got something and tried to get more than 2 6 month loans and a dugmeat player on a permanent basis. Who we then released at the end of that very season...

[renton]

4 minutes ago, Alyn Stevenson said:

I agree that Bates didn’t look levels above ourselves when playing for us, and maybe Locke didn’t rate or think he would progress to the level he is at now but surely when someone like Rangers are contacting us about signing him we would’ve thought maybe he’s got something and tried to get more than 2 6 month loans and a dugmeat player on a permanent basis. Who we then released at the end of that very season...

Gary Locke couldn't breathe and think at the same time. Utter fucking cretin.

[Tony Stark(s Park)]

Think we can all agree that the Q&A seems to have been quite successful. The fans got the information they wanted (even if it wasn’t the best of news). Last season everyone was crying out for transparency and we have finally received it. Great move by the club in my opinion.

[Michael W]

2 hours ago, Kdawg said:

Just to play devils advocate, surely no one could have invisaged Bates going on to be a Scotland player within a couple of years when he was with us. We had Bene, Toshney, Davidson and Barr who were all miles ahead of him at the time. Apart from one good game at right back, I can’t think of another game he impressed in. If anything, it should be Rangers that are left angry, it was them that really developed him.

Don't agree with that - he looked a competent Championship player when he played. I, too, have been proven wrong as I didn't think he'd make it at Rangers (or get Scotland caps). 

Nevertheless, the clue should've been that Rangers wanted him and didn't want Scott Roberts; a player that now warms the bench for Annan. Shame Locke was too much of a dribbling simpleton to see it. You'd perhaps think our Chief Executive who boasted vast commercial experience in banking, albeit at a bank that nearly went bust, would see it. But you'd be wrong. 

The decision to let Bates go without a fee is, and remains, indefensible. 

[WSDR 88]

The whole Bates thing still boils my piss, when he played I thought he was decent, and a few games as mentioned above he looked excellent. As soon as Rangers came sniffing with the development loan, we should’ve got him on a solid contract with clauses upon clauses. I mean how often is it a “Big Premiership” club comes in for a lower league level player on a development loan, straight off that should’ve had the alarm bells going. Makes no difference, we’re getting nix for him, but glad to read on the comments above the club are now making contracts a lot tighter.

Thanks to those who posted points from last nights Q&A, good read. Especially regarding the clubs financial state now.

[Brashy's Boots]

Forgot to mention, JMc said he was given a 12 month dugout ban for his part in the battle of New Bayview the other week. He immediately appealed and was therefore able to take his place in dugout at Queens Park match, given that Paul Smith was away getting married. JMc disciplinary hearing on Dec 12 or 13, cannae mind.

[GhostZapper]

7 minutes ago, WSDR 88 said:

The whole Bates thing still boils my piss, when he played I thought he was decent, and a few games as mentioned above he looked excellent. As soon as Rangers came sniffing with the development loan, we should’ve got him on a solid contract with clauses upon clauses. I mean how often is it a “Big Premiership” club comes in for a lower league level player on a development loan, straight off that should’ve had the alarm bells going. Makes no difference, we’re getting nix for him, but glad to read on the comments above the club are now making contracts a lot tighter.

Thanks to those who posted points from last nights Q&A, good read. Especially regarding the clubs financial state now.

even with sell on clauses included, we'd still have got nothing! Rangers allowed his contract to expire therefore there was no fee paid, so we'd have got % of 0.
The only thing that we would (and should have) got would be a development fee under UEFA rules

[Raith Against The Machine]

Forgot to mention, JMc said he was given a 12 month dugout ban for his part in the battle of New Bayview the other week. He immediately appealed and was therefore able to take his place in dugout at Queens Park match, given that Paul Smith was away getting married. JMc disciplinary hearing on Dec 12 or 13, cannae mind.

Twelve months!? Or twelve matches?

One seems excessive, the other seems outrageous!

[Beachbum]

20 minutes ago, Brashy's Boots said:

Forgot to mention, JMc said he was given a 12 month dugout ban for his part in the battle of New Bayview the other week. He immediately appealed and was therefore able to take his place in dugout at Queens Park match, given that Paul Smith was away getting married. JMc disciplinary hearing on Dec 12 or 13, cannae mind.

Are you sure that's what he said? Seems extremely harsh.

[Wardy]

A years ban for causing a bit of a hoo ha? What was the referees punishment for causing it in the first place? 

[++Ammo - Airdrie++]

Just having a browse lads and I agree about the Bates thing.
Once in a blue moon, one of the Glasgow arse cheeks (or a middle of the road English outfit) come calling for a young player with potential (Watt with ourselves, Spence at Alloa, numerous lads at Falkirk for down south) Straight away, this should be seen as a "cash cow" and should be milked for every sectarian ounce of its worth. £80k - £100k is about the norm to expect from either Glasgow half I'd say, and if you were really fortunate, a generous 6 figure sum from an English league mob (see Falkirk conveyor belt in the last few years Leahy, Vaulks to name a couple).
There's no dressing this up, you've been absolutely hamstrung on this particular deal and blame can be laid at the feet of GF Locke all you like, but the men in the boardroom doing the dealings with "The Rangers" are every bit more accountable for this shambles.
That's my tuppence worth anyway.

[lellywong]

25 minutes ago, Raith Against The Machine said:

Twelve months!? Or twelve matches?

One seems excessive, the other seems outrageous!

He was given a one match ban which he appealed. It will now go to a hearing in Glasgow and he fully expects to receive a two match ban.