The New Raith Rovers Thread

[Scary Bear]

Just listened to the interview with Barrowman. Seems like this has been a long time coming. It just shows how quickly football can change. From Love Actually to The Terminator.

Stanton gets injured just before Christmas, and it all starts unravelling. If your key players get injured you are in trouble no matter how good a manager you are.

Now, for me, it’s just about timing. Counting pre-season friendlies and the July League Cup games seems a bit much. If the club wanted to be ruthless they would have binned Murray after the failure to get promoted. Getting rid after one league game just seems like dragging your feet on making a decision.

Key bit of the interview was around getting a replacement. Barrowman said they know what direction they want to go, but I wonder what conversations have taken place with potential candidates? Who is the preferred candidate? Have we spoken to him?

 

 

[AuldReekie]

Are you guys ready to accept yet that you are being heavily bankrolled to promotion? Continued to see suggestions that the budget was totally reasonable and entirely sustainable based on a uptick in pie sales?

And yet here we are. Sacking a manager with a 3 year contract on a whim, looking to offer a new manager contract (and presumably some backroom staff), and still have a substantial player budget to tap into (after already committing significant money to the likes of Hanlon, Stevenson, etc).

Seems most fans have quickly talked themselves into this all being perfectly normal, above board, completely rationale and affordable. Not seeing many dissenting voices which is a little surprising. Looks very boom or bust. 

[buchan30]

If the new guy is in place today, there is every chance he has been sounded out and chosen. I can see why the board have done it, but the timing seems off to me. I don’t know who it will take to come in that will make me think that they have got that spot on. Something (i don’t know what) just isn’t sitting right with me about this. The new manager is going to have to hit the ground running with results and performances and probably reunite the dressing room a little after what Barrowman said about some players not being happy about. 

[cb_diamond]

A genuine question for Rovers fans having just watched the whole interview and apologies if this has been covered previously on this thread, but where is the relatively recent Rovers wealth coming from? You've clearly spent a LOT this preseason but there's still substantial funds left.

You're obviously a well established Championship side, but you don't have lots of recent cup semi finals and finals and you attract average-ish crowds. However, you're clearly the big spenders of the league paying very high championship wages over longer contracts and willing to splash out on players.

Is this just the case of a board throwing their cash cash at things? Obviously having a benefactor can work well (Ross County) but the flip side of spending unsustainably has also been witnessed many times. 

Edited August 6 by cb_diamond

[mrpaddyx]

10 minutes ago, cb_diamond said:

A genuine question for Rovers fans having just watched the whole interview and apologies if this has been covered previously on this thread, but where is the relatively recent Rovers wealth coming from? You've clearly spent a LOT this preseason but there's still substantial funds left.

You're obviously a well established Championship side, but you don't have lots of recent cup semi finals and finals and you attract average-ish crowds. However, you're clearly the big spenders of the league paying very high championship wages over longer contracts and willing to splash out on players.

Is this just the case of a board throwing their cash cash at things? Obviously having a benefactor can work well (Ross County) but the flip side of spending unsustainably has also been witnessed many times. 

The comedy answer would be pie sales but in all seriousness our income has went up significantly over the last year or so.

Last season our crowds were around double from the season before and coming 2nd gave us very nice prize money.

The club seems to be run a lot more professionally than before, for example catering has been brought in house rather that been provided by a 3rd party. Someone posted the financials on here a while ago and on the surface it looked like the board were actually doing a decent job.

 

Edited August 6 by mrpaddyx

[true_rover]

11 minutes ago, cb_diamond said:

A genuine question for Rovers fans having just watched the whole interview and apologies if this has been covered previously on this thread, but where is the relatively recent Rovers wealth coming from? You've clearly spent a LOT this preseason but there's still substantial funds left.

You're obviously a well established Championship side, but you don't have lots of recent cup semi finals and finals and you attract average-ish crowds. However, you're clearly the big spenders of the league paying very high championship wages over longer contracts and willing to splash out on players.

Is this just the case of a board throwing their cash cash at things? Obviously having a benefactor can work well (Ross County) but the flip side of spending unsustainably has also been witnessed many times. 

There was some numbers quoted that our squad costs were up 7% last season compared to the previous year. A lot of last season's "big spending" would have been covered by the removal of some big earners from the books - the likes of MacDonald, Lang, Gullan, Spencer and Ross all on the McGlynn automatic increase contracts.

With bigger income than before - prize money, crowds, hospitality - there probably is scope for a bit of increase this year. Will be interesting to see if that bears out when the accounts come out.

[pub car king]

There's all this talk of our ageing squad like it's some kind of retirement home. We still have a very good squad most of the experience is in the back line but a lot of players are around the late twenties 30 mark which is fine. We also signed 3 teenagers this summer. 

 

[CountryBumpkin]

2 minutes ago, mrpaddyx said:

The comedy answer would be pies sales but in all seriousness our income has went up significantly over the last year or so.

Last season our crowds were around double from the season before and coming 2nd gave us very nice prize money.

The club seems to be run a lot more professionally than before, for example catering has been brought in house rather that been provided by a 3rd party. Someone posted the financials on here a while ago and on the surface it looked like the board were actually doing a decent job.

Add to that, there was a non-voting share purchase in January this year, I suspect that has been one of or a few of the directors in to increase/pad budgets too

 

I also don't believe those that have come in will be on significantly more than the ones they replaced. Ethan Ross was on a bumper McGlynn deal, Watson wouldn't have been cheap coming from top league and Millen would have been a significant earner too. Its naive to think that both Hanlon and Stevenson, given their age  etc are on the same as they were last season at Hibs, both will have taken a drop in wages, offset by contract length and likely bonuses. 

Not saying we don't have a larger budget, but I think its managable as long as the crowds/additional income streams don't dry up. We've also doubled the price of most of our sponsor packages for this season and looking at stand sponsorship opportunities.

 

[Scary Bear]

29 minutes ago, cb_diamond said:

A genuine question for Rovers fans having just watched the whole interview and apologies if this has been covered previously on this thread, but where is the relatively recent Rovers wealth coming from? You've clearly spent a LOT this preseason but there's still substantial funds left.

You're obviously a well established Championship side, but you don't have lots of recent cup semi finals and finals and you attract average-ish crowds. However, you're clearly the big spenders of the league paying very high championship wages over longer contracts and willing to splash out on players.

Is this just the case of a board throwing their cash cash at things? Obviously having a benefactor can work well (Ross County) but the flip side of spending unsustainably has also been witnessed many times. 

It’s pie sales. 

Not sure what difference it’s made to budgets but our average crowds must be up by about 2000 on season 22/23.

Edited August 6 by Scary Bear

[Beachbum]

28 minutes ago, cb_diamond said:

A genuine question for Rovers fans having just watched the whole interview and apologies if this has been covered previously on this thread, but where is the relatively recent Rovers wealth coming from? You've clearly spent a LOT this preseason but there's still substantial funds left.

You're obviously a well established Championship side, but you don't have lots of recent cup semi finals and finals and you attract average-ish crowds. However, you're clearly the big spenders of the league paying very high championship wages over longer contracts and willing to splash out on players.

Is this just the case of a board throwing their cash cash at things? Obviously having a benefactor can work well (Ross County) but the flip side of spending unsustainably has also been witnessed many times. 

Income from SPFL prize money for last season stood at £700,000+

[Hank Scorpio]

Barrowman specifically references sacking Murray not being a financially detrimental decision in his interview. I’d hazard a guess there’s been a clause in the contract stating we’ll pay you x amount of dough should you be relieved of your services. A lot has been spoken about in terms of the strength of the contracts for the players being significantly tightened up. There’s no reason not to think that wouldn’t also extend to the contract for the manager and coaching staff. In short - another non story which fans of opposition clubs are grasping at to try and tear us down. 
 

Carry on, though. 

Edited August 6 by Hank Scorpio

[Hank Scorpio]

35 minutes ago, cb_diamond said:

A genuine question for Rovers fans having just watched the whole interview and apologies if this has been covered previously on this thread, but where is the relatively recent Rovers wealth coming from? You've clearly spent a LOT this preseason but there's still substantial funds left.

You're obviously a well established Championship side, but you don't have lots of recent cup semi finals and finals and you attract average-ish crowds. However, you're clearly the big spenders of the league paying very high championship wages over longer contracts and willing to splash out on players.

Is this just the case of a board throwing their cash cash at things? Obviously having a benefactor can work well (Ross County) but the flip side of spending unsustainably has also been witnessed many times. 

Partick Thistle literally signed one of our players in January, who we wanted to keep and has no back up for, because they were willing to give him more money. 

[Been going too long]

48 minutes ago, AuldReekie said:

Are you guys ready to accept yet that you are being heavily bankrolled to promotion? Continued to see suggestions that the budget was totally reasonable and entirely sustainable based on a uptick in pie sales?

And yet here we are. Sacking a manager with a 3 year contract on a whim, looking to offer a new manager contract (and presumably some backroom staff), and still have a substantial player budget to tap into (after already committing significant money to the likes of Hanlon, Stevenson, etc).

Seems most fans have quickly talked themselves into this all being perfectly normal, above board, completely rationale and affordable. Not seeing many dissenting voices which is a little surprising. Looks very boom or bust. 

Why do you care?

[Been going too long]

27 minutes ago, pub car king said:

There's all this talk of our ageing squad like it's some kind of retirement home. We still have a very good squad most of the experience is in the back line but a lot of players are around the late twenties 30 mark which is fine. We also signed 3 teenagers this summer. 

 

Exactly and smithy, Kev, big jack all signed last summer and past it in their early to mid twenties

[AuldReekie]

4 minutes ago, Been going too long said:

Why do you care?

Meh. I don't really. It's a fitba forum. You know, to discuss Scottish fitba? If you don't give two shits, I'm certainly not going to. In the same way opposition fans ask questions of what the f**k we're doing at East End (and a lot of the questions are perfectly fair), there's non-Rovers fans looking in with interest on what's happening at your club. 

Try not to get too uptight about it. Seems vast majority of Rovers fans are totally cool with all of this, so I'm sure we've got the wrong end of the stick. As you were fella.

[101]

16 minutes ago, Hank Scorpio said:

Partick Thistle literally signed one of our players in January, who we wanted to keep and has no back up for, because they were willing to give him more money. 

And a longer deal no?

[Been going too long]

Just now, AuldReekie said:

Meh. I don't really. It's a fitba forum. You know, to discuss Scottish fitba? If you don't give two shits, I'm certainly not going to. In the same way opposition fans ask questions of what the f**k we're doing at East End (and a lot of the questions are perfectly fair), there's non-Rovers fans looking in with interest on what's happening at your club. 

Try not to get too uptight about it. Seems vast majority of Rovers fans are totally cool with all of this, so I'm sure we've got the wrong end of the stick. As you were fella.

I’m just asking why you care, I’m perfectly cool with it , glad it annoys the hell out of those along in west fife . Envy is not a nice quality  , as you were

[SanStarko]

4 minutes ago, 101 said:

And a longer deal no?

Yeah, it was definitely the longer deal more than wages.  We offered him till the end of the season, Partick offered him 2 years I think.  I'm assuming we'd already had ideas about bringing in Ashcroft/Hanlon, etc for the new season at that point so didn't want to tie ourselves in. 

Edited August 6 by SanStarko

[Broken Algorithms]

1 hour ago, AuldReekie said:

Are you guys ready to accept yet that you are being heavily bankrolled to promotion? Continued to see suggestions that the budget was totally reasonable and entirely sustainable based on a uptick in pie sales?

And yet here we are. Sacking a manager with a 3 year contract on a whim, looking to offer a new manager contract (and presumably some backroom staff), and still have a substantial player budget to tap into (after already committing significant money to the likes of Hanlon, Stevenson, etc).

Seems most fans have quickly talked themselves into this all being perfectly normal, above board, completely rationale and affordable. Not seeing many dissenting voices which is a little surprising. Looks very boom or bust. 

I'll come in on this one because this has had the arse kicked out of it and probably needs a longer form response. 

One person put in an absolutely butchered (no pun intended) response in the playoff thread which now gets trotted out for a meme response that Rovers fans are completely oblivious to what is going on and that we're funding everything at Stark's Park thanks to those delicious donner pies. 

To expand on the point which the poster was trying to make in that thread - the club have undergone a systematic review of revenue streams across the club. That will involve some changes - speaking to people internally memberships of things like the Jim McMillan lounge are going up this summer because the board looked at the rates and said "if you go to other Championship clubs (Dunfermline included), they're paying more than you are for less. Why shouldn't we review this?". The club and the group running the lounge then reviewed the deal and agreed a new rate. 

It's exactly the same with the catering. Opposition fans jump in with a response from one poster on here saying "pie sales are up 1000%". That isn't what happened. Under our previous regime, we'd done as we always had. A catering company paid a flat fee for the use of the facilities for Stark's, and then kept any profits. That got changed by the new board as part of their reviews. They've changed the pricing structure for the food, which now comes via Stuarts, and the club have managed to increase revenues off the back of it. The previous regime had set up a negligent way of handling the catering, which is why the Rovers have claimed there's been such a change in the revenues. 

That came off the back of a document sent out to club 1883 members where they've provided some statistics about the changes made. This was obviously really well received, but anyone with a working brain realises that this isn't a set of accounts with a profit or loss margin. Nobody is claiming that we've not had external investment. The board have already said that they'd put in money to do up the stadium such as changing rooms etc. 

I think that under the old regime, there had been very much a "...but we've always done it this way" mentality. The new board have changed that. We also had quite a lot of deals come up which McGlynn had signed which upon review had been described as rather 'eye-watering' for what we were getting. 

Even the board themselves, all the focus tends to lie with McKenzie rather than anyone else. Colin Smart for example sold off a care home business for £40m. Ruaridh Kilgour's company had a deep dive in the press recently where there were comments it had over seven figures in the bank. Obviously that doesn't equate to Rovers having money in the bank but it probably lends itself to why some most of our fans feel a bit more relaxed than people on the outside think we should be. I can understand why people on the outside are looking in with a degree of frustration, but I don't think it's as simple as going "pie sales 1000%!!!??!?!1111". I'd say the club are modernising, reviewing and developing - you'll have a lot of Rovers fans optimistic because it's been long overdue and in all honesty wasn't something people thought possible. 

I'd also add, there's still plenty of Rovers fans who are eagerly waiting to see the P+L margins when the accounts come through next spring. 

Edited August 6 by Broken Algorithms

[AuldReekie]

6 minutes ago, Been going too long said:

I’m just asking why you care, I’m perfectly cool with it , glad it annoys the hell out of those along in west fife . Envy is not a nice quality  , as you were

You think I'm annoyed or envious? Can you read?

While we're managing to make a pigs ear of the footballing side of operations, but don't confuse this with me being envious of what's going on at Rovers. Still a chance this is going to work out really well for you, short term at least, but I'll be envious if you're Premiership next season and have survived Barrowman moving on.