The New Raith Rovers Thread

[SirJimmyofNic]

6 minutes ago, Been going too long said:

I think if we persist 3-5-2 then we will score more but maybe lose a few more as well, Murray definitely went more pragmatic second half,4-1-3-2 let us be over run at times in midfield but we went more direct and got a reward 

That 3-5-2 will never work with the players at our disposal,  far too susceptible to the ball over the top with CB's not quick enough to recover and a keeper glued to his line,......... just my thoughts

[McGuigan1978]

7 minutes ago, Broken Algorithms said:

No for me. Injury prone, drifts out wide when used up top and for all Rudden got slaughtered last season he offered far more of a goal threat than Gullan.

He will of course also move to Partick to become heir apparent to Brian Graham.

Gullan’s goal/assist ratio last season was miles better than Rudden’s 

[raith1974]

17 minutes ago, Been going too long said:

If Dundalk went bust would we want the hammer back ? Just putting that out there( guaranteed to split opinion) I’m a maybe 

No

[raith1974]

Just now, SirJimmyofNic said:

That 3-5-2 will never work with the players at our disposal,  far too susceptible to the ball over the top with CB's not quick enough to recover and a keeper glued to his line,......... just my thoughts

That's part of the issue, Dabrowski is glued to his line. He's a great shot stopper, but kicking and rushing out is not his strength. Look at the Pars keeper he played as a sweeper and had a better range of passing than our midfielders. In terms of shot stopping no idea as we never tested him.

[Been going too long]

3 minutes ago, SirJimmyofNic said:

That 3-5-2 will never work with the players at our disposal,  far too susceptible to the ball over the top with CB's not quick enough to recover and a keeper glued to his line,......... just my thoughts

it’s what Collins prefers, be interesting to see if he persists with it or not

[MICMAC]

1 minute ago, raith1974 said:

That's part of the issue, Dabrowski is glued to his line. He's a great shot stopper, but kicking and rushing out is not his strength. Look at the Pars keeper he played as a sweeper and had a better range of passing than our midfielders. In terms of shot stopping no idea as we never tested him.

It did allow the Pars to play a higher line and they have a bit of pace at the back counter any pace we have up front

[SirJimmyofNic]

1 minute ago, Been going too long said:

it’s what Collins prefers, be interesting to see if he persists with it or not

Well, if he does persist with it and performances like the Pars keep happening, I wonder how long it'll take Barrowman to have another Kneejerk reaction

[Been going too long]

2 minutes ago, SirJimmyofNic said:

Well, if he does persist with it and performances like the Pars keep happening, I wonder how long it'll take Barrowman to have another Kneejerk reaction

The sending off played a big part imo how the game went on Fri but aye you can’t rule it out I suppose

[Broken Algorithms]

5 minutes ago, McGuigan1978 said:

Gullan’s goal/assist ratio last season was miles better than Rudden’s 

What was the difference between the two in terms of stats?

My answer would still be the same for me: I don't think Gullan wouldn't be the answer. He spent half of his time getting into the team, getting injured and then working his way back in. We've already enough of that at the moment.

[McGuigan1978]

1 minute ago, Broken Algorithms said:

What was the difference between the two in terms of stats?

My answer would still be the same for me: I don't think Gullan wouldn't be the answer. He spent half of his time getting into the team, getting injured and then working his way back in. We've already enough of that at the moment.

I don’t think Gullan was very good either, but he scored or set up a goal every 148 minutes last season compared to Rudden’s 219. 

[pub car king]

On Gullan, him and Vaughan were electric in the 5-1 Covid scudding of the pars. He would be ideal if we played 433 with him on the left. He is also the Caley slayer.

I'd go as far as a 2 for 1 Dundalk fire sale and get Scott McGill (who I'd forgot about) back as well, the definition of a utility player but by God we could use one of those. 

But realistically we need a bit of depth to this squad and fast. 

[Raith2711]

I'm strongly in agreement that we don't have the players for 3-5-2

Hanlon, Fordyce and Murray with Dick as a 4th option should just about cover us for two centre backs, taking in to account injuries and suspensions. Fordyce and Hanlon being my two favoured starters.

None of the centre backs are hugely pacey so I think having full backs rather than wing backs reduces the chances of them getting caught out by quick direct attacks.

Freeman looks a defender first and foremost and probably would suit sticking to this with one of Mullin, Gibson or Connolly in front of him.

Early signs were Stevenson linking up with Easton could be fruitful down the left. If Easton gets his confidence back I still think this could pay off (for me Easton is giving 110% coming back and helping to defend, but nothing is coming off for him going forward) 

Edited Tuesday at 00:21 by Raith2711

[TxRover]

1 hour ago, SirJimmyofNic said:

That 3-5-2 will never work with the players at our disposal,  far too susceptible to the ball over the top with CB's not quick enough to recover and a keeper glued to his line,......... just my thoughts

47 minutes ago, Raith2711 said:

I'm strongly in agreement that we don't have the players for 3-5-2

No, just no. Now a back three for us with a high line isn’t a good plan, but it’s not required. With two wide high engine players and a threesome in the middle to contest the ball, our back three can work just fine at a more conventional depth, without the high line/heavy press. Stanton and Browm are the huge losses right now, as Sam at the top of a middle of the park triangle with Brown and Byrne/Matthews as the base, while any of a large variety of choices play LWB and RWB would be just fine.

I wonder if all this time with IM’s pressure, pressing and high line tactics isn’t perhaps conflicting with the better choice to let the defenders lay back a bit. Hopefully Collins will sort that out, as he is very much a proponent of the back three…but not exclusively. As a bonus, the deeper line would reduce congestion in the middle, where we’ve been struggling to hold possession and find passes.

[Raith2711]

2 minutes ago, TxRover said:

No, just no. Now a back three for us with a high line isn’t a good plan, but it’s not required. With two wide high engine players and a threesome in the middle to contest the ball, our back three can work just fine at a more conventional depth, without the high line/heavy press. Stanton and Browm are the huge losses right now, as Sam at the top of a middle of the park triangle with Brown and Byrne/Matthews as the base, while any of a large variety of choices play LWB and RWB would be just fine.

I wonder if all this time with IM’s pressure, pressing and high line tactics isn’t perhaps conflicting with the better choice to let the defenders lay back a bit. Hopefully Collins will sort that out, as he is very much a proponent of the back three…but not exclusively. As a bonus, the deeper line would reduce congestion in the middle, where we’ve been struggling to hold possession and find passes.

For that tactic to work you would need more central defensive cover. We would be using all of Hanlon, Fordyce and Murray if fit and not suspended. 

Dick could provide cover as one of the 3 but he wouldn't be suited to covering Stevenson at LWB. 

We have no one ideally suited to RWB so we would probably throw Mullin in. 

It still leaves Stanton being out as another point of failure as no one else has looked good in the no 10 role. This would be exacerbated if he's the only attacking midfielder, our wing backs don't have the pace to get up and support quickly enough. 

Also leaves Easton either out the team or shoe horned in to an unatural position.

Pars won with ease with a 4-5-1 on Friday. Hamilton Otoo and Wotherspoon in the middle gave then a good base to build from.

We have loads of midfielders, I would suggest the manager having a look at them, choosing which ones he rates, and devising some sort of coherent tactics that fit the majority of our good players in, would be ideal.

Coming in and sticking to a previously used formation that we don't have the players for seems bonkers, inflexible and one dimensional. Hopefully the manager doesnt do this. If he does Brown will be spending another year at centre back.

This Saturday I think we'll have to change given injuries and suspensions. Defence probably has to be:

Stevenson

Dick

Hanlon

Freeman if fit, Matthews or Mullin if not.

[Salvo Montalbano]

8 hours ago, CountryBumpkin said:

Right, but its 5 games into the f**king season, there are 93 points still to play for (31 games) and plenty of time. Talk and panic around relegation is madness. 

I think this is fair. It's fine to be critical of the recruitment, the start you've made, the management situation. And it's amusing as hell to read the mental gymnastics of people who couldn't accept that winning games 1-0 with late screamers while having your keeper pull off wonder saves wasn't sustainable in the long term suddenly rewrite history to suggest you lot were dung for most of last season. But with the squad you have, the budget still available for loans and free agents now, not to mention January and the fact that there are quite a number of dogshit teams in this division, any panic about relegation is complete nonsense at this stage. If you are isolated at the bottom after a quarter or more of the season or are still bottom at the half way stage fine, but it's far too early to pish your pants now, even if it is absolutely hilarious. 

[CALDERON]

I think panic about relegation may be premature, but I'd be wary of the opposite reaction and assuming everything will be fine just because we have injuries at the moment.

This team has struggled to create chances for a while now, and is now starting to concede some shit goals.  Regarding the former, I'm not sure that's going to change without recruitment.

I'm also conscious that there isn't a standout poor side in the league on paper.

I don't think we are objectively a terrible side or anything like that, but we aren't creating very much or scoring, and I don't see a path to that changing dramatically any time soon - and if that's the case you lose more than you win.  The squad is certainly nowhere near as good as some thought pre season.

I don't have the stats to hand, but i can't imagine many teams who sit bottom in mid September go on to have great seasons.  

[Double Jack D]

Playing 3-5-2 with no real pace at centre half, a 37 year old left wing back and no right wing back is mental.

The players we have a 4-5-1 with 2 wingers using the full width of the pitch seems the most appropriate set up that would allow us to accommodate our players in they're favoured positions.

[CountryBumpkin]

8 hours ago, Raith2711 said:

I'm strongly in agreement that we don't have the players for 3-5-2

Hanlon, Fordyce and Murray with Dick as a 4th option should just about cover us for two centre backs, taking in to account injuries and suspensions. Fordyce and Hanlon being my two favoured starters.

None of the centre backs are hugely pacey so I think having full backs rather than wing backs reduces the chances of them getting caught out by quick direct attacks.

Freeman looks a defender first and foremost and probably would suit sticking to this with one of Mullin, Gibson or Connolly in front of him.

Early signs were Stevenson linking up with Easton could be fruitful down the left. If Easton gets his confidence back I still think this could pay off (for me Easton is giving 110% coming back and helping to defend, but nothing is coming off for him going forward) 

That bit is impossible, but I do get your point. 

Spot on with the rest of the points though. I don't think a 3 back system works for us, not in the conventional sense anyway. With Freeman being more defensive, we need someone to stay wide on that side to provide the width in attack, that would be Gibson or Mullin. Connolly would always want to drift inside to his stronger left foot, and as we've all seen last season without a fullback pushing forward to take a marker away from him, Connolly gets marked out of the game very easily.

Easton and Stevenson on the left has looked fairly promising, but I think we also need Stanton there to make that additional run into space to give Easton time to do what he can do. Sadly, I do think that is a job only Stanton can do, Brown isn't the man to push forward often, Matthews can but I don't think its his natural game, similar story with Byrne. I suspect Montagu was tapped as the longer term Stanton replacement, but its too early to put him in for 90 when we're really struggling.

Up front we're pretty limited. Vaughan is our best and most dangerous finisher, but is he fit? Like Gullan, Vaughan likes to drift, either back into midfield or out wide to create space, but we never seem to have anyone taking advantage of those spaces. Hamilton is limited outside the box and we don't do enough, or quickly enough to utilise him better. Smith and Jamieson are wide forwards who have been asked to do a job, but I don't see either as the answer. 

For me we need cover on the right side of defence, a player who can play both right sided centre back and right back would be a bonus, like a right footed Liam Dick. We need cover for Stanton in that midfield role and I think we need a playmaker, someone in the Hendry/Spencer mould that can dictate play. We also need a forward capable of connecting the play and being on the end of things. Not much to ask in the next 13 days. 

Maybe we should tell the plasterers to hold off for a few weeks, we've got players to sign. 

[Heid_The_Baw]

13 hours ago, RAITHROVERS84 said:

That’s a fantastic pickup from PT getting Megwa.

Was a standout on a couple of occasions vs us last season.

It really is astonishing how horrifically it’s turned at Starks.

180 minutes from being promoted to now dumped out the diddy cup, bottom of the league, zero goals from open play in the league, creating nothing in most games, non stop injuries to key players, Brown not kicked a ball in the league, downturn in individual performances, having the whole of Scottish questioning why Murray was binned after 1 game, 200 club issue, midfielders playing defence…again, don’t know what a striker looks like.

Having horrendous spells supporting teams like ours is to be expected but it really shouldn’t be happening right now. It was an easy build on last season. Get a RB (Megwa) and a striker. 

Morton narrowly missed out on relegation spot after starting the season horrendously, that was down to a 15/16 unbeaten run and a piss poor Arbroath side. I’m not confident as things stand we’ll turn this anytime soon. Some good news on Brown and Stanton plus a couple of fresh players are needed.

Hamilton, Falkirk and Morton away games feel crucial to me. Need at least 5/6 points.

 

Bang on.  Every bit factually correct.  The BOD are good at renovations, just not football.
We need to turn this around pronto or we will be digging out the buckets and spades.  We are well on the way to doing an Arbroath!

[Michael W]

3 hours ago, CALDERON said:

I think panic about relegation may be premature, but I'd be wary of the opposite reaction and assuming everything will be fine just because we have injuries at the moment.

This team has struggled to create chances for a while now, and is now starting to concede some shit goals.  Regarding the former, I'm not sure that's going to change without recruitment.

 

The injuries did not mean we had to play midfielders at RB or start with the back 3 that proved to be disastrous. They have impacted us, no doubt, particularly at the very start of the season, but that excuse has now worn thin. 

Having Stanton out is a nightmare, really. We don't have another player in the team that plays his role and I'd say a replacement for him is now probably our number one priority. It takes precedence over RB, as whilst we've played midfielders there we do actually have one available. I am not convinced at all that he'll be any worse than playing a midfielder out of position. 

 

We could also do with an attacking midfielder/winger to change things up a bit from Easton/Connolly/Mullin. Someone with pace is what we need, really, but any player fitting that profile would've had the entire Championship after them if they were available. It'll likely a loan from a Premiership side, subject to the usual risk that they might be lightweight and/or pretty rubbish. 

 

Edited Tuesday at 08:54 by Michael W