Unpopular opinions.

[Dons_1988]

I remember going out in London when Scotland had introduced the smoking ban but it hadn't reached England.

Being in a nightclub filled with smoke was absolutely bizarre and couldn't quite believe Scotland had been the same not hat long beforehand.

[19QOS19]

The smoke never bothered me tbh but the idea of it being reintroduced (I know it won't be) is actually quite off-putting.

[ICTChris]

51 minutes ago, throbber said:

The broader point I was badly trying to make was that even if there was no smoking ban then the popularity of pubs would still be where it is in 2021, largely because of the reasons we have already mentioned. 

I’m not sure why people say they are concerned about lots of pubs closing either, it’s a shame for pub owners obviously but if the interest just isn’t there anymore then people aren’t really missing out on anything.

 

I remember watching a documentary about the history of various London streets, one of the ones they did was Deptford high street, which went from thriving market hub to, without being unkind, a total shithole by the 2010s. One of the things they talked about was pubs, Deptford had about a dozen pubs on the street, some of which had long history as meeting places. An initial meeting that lead to the creation of the Labour Party took place in one of the pubs. Now they have all gone and most of the drinking is done by people sitting on park benches swigging cans. Obviously there’s many more factors to an areas decline than pubs closing but it was interesting.

Pubs have also traditionally been social hubs - sports teams, games clubs, meetings upstairs etc. I also remember a scene in the second Trainspotting film showing photos from Sickboys aunts pub inGranton from when they were kids, big social events with people taking their families etc and the contrast to now, a total shithole with a few old alkies and someone growing cannabis in the basement.  Obviously fictional but I’m sure there are plenty places like that in Edinburgh.

In a way it’s like football crowds. You used to get 50,000 at Easter Road and 25,000 at big Junior cup games because that was all you could really do for entertainment. Now that there are more things to do with leisure time people do them. Progress I suppose but that doesn’t mean things aren’t lost on the way. Maybe sometimes we lose more than we gain.

[pandarilla]

I think if the smoking ban wasn’t in place I would never enter another pub again in my life.

Aye but i bet you never thought that before it was introduced?

The effects of the smoke were annoying (the next day) but you'd never choose to stop going on nights out because of it. Not a chance.

The smoke never bothered me tbh but the idea of it being reintroduced (I know it won't be) is actually quite off-putting.

This is how almost everyone felt / feels.

[Honest_Man#1]

41 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

Aye but i bet you never thought that before it was introduced?

The effects of the smoke were annoying (the next day) but you'd never choose to stop going on nights out because of it. Not a chance.
This is how almost everyone felt / feels.

Luckily I’ve never had to experience it, but the idea of reducing my life by sitting in a smoke filled room for hours just to have a few pints would stop me going. I’d stick to meeting people in my/their houses instead.

[Melanius Mullarkey]

1 hour ago, throbber said:

It was March 2006 it came to Scotland, it snowed like f**k the weekend it came in.

The very weekend I got married.

[Sergeant Wilson]

1 hour ago, ICTChris said:

I remember watching a documentary about the history of various London streets, one of the ones they did was Deptford high street, which went from thriving market hub to, without being unkind, a total shithole by the 2010s. One of the things they talked about was pubs, Deptford had about a dozen pubs on the street, some of which had long history as meeting places. An initial meeting that lead to the creation of the Labour Party took place in one of the pubs. Now they have all gone and most of the drinking is done by people sitting on park benches swigging cans. Obviously there’s many more factors to an areas decline than pubs closing but it was interesting.

Pubs have also traditionally been social hubs - sports teams, games clubs, meetings upstairs etc. I also remember a scene in the second Trainspotting film showing photos from Sickboys aunts pub inGranton from when they were kids, big social events with people taking their families etc and the contrast to now, a total shithole with a few old alkies and someone growing cannabis in the basement.  Obviously fictional but I’m sure there are plenty places like that in Edinburgh.

In a way it’s like football crowds. You used to get 50,000 at Easter Road and 25,000 at big Junior cup games because that was all you could really do for entertainment. Now that there are more things to do with leisure time people do them. Progress I suppose but that doesn’t mean things aren’t lost on the way. Maybe sometimes we lose more than we gain.

On an early visit I made the mistake of walking up Deptford High Street, because the name suggests what "we" would expect, but it's not. The issue there is the changing demographics of the area. It's an interesting place and probably meets the needs of its community better now, just not for visitors looking for a pint.

Plenty nearby though.

[19QOS19]

Luckily I’ve never had to experience it, but the idea of reducing my life by sitting in a smoke filled room for hours just to have a few pints would stop me going. I’d stick to meeting people in my/their houses instead.

You never really noticed it tbh. Pubs and smoke smell went hand in hand really. It's like pubs today and that have that awful smell of what I assume is stale/dried in beer. Once you were inside the smell eventually faded and unless someone was right beside you you never spent the whole time coughing.

As I say, it never bothered me but I wouldn't want it reversed.

[Honest_Man#1]

1 hour ago, 19QOS19 said:

You never really noticed it tbh. Pubs and smoke smell went hand in hand really. It's like pubs today and that have that awful smell of what I assume is stale/dried in beer. Once you were inside the smell eventually faded and unless someone was right beside you you never spent the whole time coughing.

As I say, it never bothered me but I wouldn't want it reversed.

It’s not the smell that bothers me, it’s the cutting down of my lifespan.

[vikingTON]

On 04/04/2021 at 06:53, throbber said:

Pubs have been diminishing in popularity for the last 10+ years now anyway, if you are concerned about certain ones closing then you can do all you can to give them your business but If the interest just isn’t there from enough people anymore then it’s not really anyone’s fault and nothing to be concerned about.

Well no, because the current reopening strategy just like the summer/autumn 2020 package favours chain pubs who fire out microwaved meals to punters inside the biggest space possible and let them drink in significant beer gardens outside. That's not the historical design of a pub in most Scottish towns and cities, which means that many of the better ones are being put at an entirely artificial disadvantage. 

If they don't survive then it'll be the fault of piss-poor government regulation. 

Edited April 5, 2021 by vikingTON

[Aufc]

Bringing in the smoking ban was the best thing they ever did. Absolutely glorious. I mind going into my dads local back in the day to get him out to the car and your clothes would be reeking after 5 minutes in it.

Pubs are class. Equally being in your mates house drinking is also class. To be fair, at this current moment in time, anything sounds class. Id take absolutely anything to be able to get a drink with all my mates.

[pandarilla]

Luckily I’ve never had to experience it, but the idea of reducing my life by sitting in a smoke filled room for hours just to have a few pints would stop me going. I’d stick to meeting people in my/their houses instead.

You wouldn't, though. Smoking was a think in restaurants and cafes as well.

It was absolutely the norm. It was just a very common thing in society.

There was a lot of opposition to the smoking ban when it first came in and a lot of folk saying it simply wouldn't work.

It's success has been staggering, and society has shifted very, very quickly.

I did feel sorry for older folk who were suddenly treated like second class citizens but all in all a brilliant piece of legislation.

[19QOS19]

I have to say, people standing at entrances to places smoking infuriates me far more than smoking in an actual establishment ever did, for some reason.

[Rugster]

11 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

You wouldn't, though. Smoking was a think in restaurants and cafes as well.

It was absolutely the norm. It was just a very common thing in society.

There was a lot of opposition to the smoking ban when it first came in and a lot of folk saying it simply wouldn't work.

It's success has been staggering, and society has shifted very, very quickly.

I did feel sorry for older folk who were suddenly treated like second class citizens but all in all a brilliant piece of legislation.
 

I remember you were able to smoke on planes too. Mental thinking about it now. 

[ICTChris]

Yeah, I have been on a few smoking planes when I was a little kid.  My dad used to take me into the office sometimes when I was a nipper, everyone smoked.  When he ran his own busienss we were clearing one of the offices and when we took the pictures down there were brown borders on it from all the tar and smoke.  

My dad smoked when we were kids and he always smoked in the house, no-one thought anything of it.  When we went and visited people they would cheerily give him an ashtray, even if they were non-smokers.  It wasn't that long ago but imagine showing up in someones house and smoking now. 

[effeffsee_the2nd]

7 hours ago, ICTChris said:

I worked for a large brewery and pubco around the time of the smoking ban and I can absolutely assure you that the smoking ban has had a major part in how the pub trade has developed. Pubs with certain features (covered outdoor seating in an enclosed area) have flourished and received investment whereas those without those or with specific negative features (one door in and out that people have to smoke outside, pubs that relied on ‘old man’ or daytime trade) have died a death. I don’t have the figures to hand but literally thousands of pubs shut in the years following the smoking ban.
 

You are absolutely right about pricing, that has a huge pull away from pubs to home drinking. Also that pubs are often full of complete p***ks is a factor but I’m sure that’s been true since the very first pub.

I was dead against the smoking ban when it came in, but after a few years & long before I eventually stopped smoking I changed completely and wouldn't undo it if I had the power.

Thing about those places, even before the smoking ban, and this may just be down to me being a young shitebag at the time who was new to pubs , But did it not seem like 15 years ago and before that there were many more pubs that you couldn't just   walk into off the street for a pint, as in you had to be known by some of the regulars otherwise you were at best made to feel very unwelcome or at worst were in danger of getting your head kicked in?  a few places ( most of which fitted your above description and  are now gone) had an air of "who are you & what are you doing in here " about them

[Mark Connolly]

1 hour ago, ICTChris said:

Yeah, I have been on a few smoking planes when I was a little kid.  My dad used to take me into the office sometimes when I was a nipper, everyone smoked.  When he ran his own busienss we were clearing one of the offices and when we took the pictures down there were brown borders on it from all the tar and smoke.  

My dad smoked when we were kids and he always smoked in the house, no-one thought anything of it.  When we went and visited people they would cheerily give him an ashtray, even if they were non-smokers.  It wasn't that long ago but imagine showing up in someones house and smoking now. 

My uncle smoked for longer than anyone in our family, only giving up in the late 90s when he was in his mid-50s. I distinctly remember the ashtrays being put out for him before his arrival  when I was wee, but having to go and get it after dinner as I got older and my mum basically had developed an unspoken rule that he was only allowed to smoke after we had eaten.

He had a right tough time giving up the fags, whereas his mum, my Gran, who had smoked since she was 13, gave up on her 73rd birthday and never touched them again. My brother's job at her house was always to go and get Grandma's cigarettes, and at her birthday party, when she hadn't told him to, he asked if she wanted them. She said "No, I've given up", and that was it. A formidable woman that even nicotine addiction wouldn't take on.

[Shotgun]

I was a smoker on and off (mostly on) through the 80's and when people talked about banning smoking in pubs, I thought it was ridiculous. Why not ban drinking in pubs too? When a stranger told me he didn't like me smoking while he was eating, my response was "You go to a restaurant to eat dickhead, not a fucking pub."

Quite bizarre, looking back. 

[Detournement]

8 minutes ago, Shotgun said:

I was a smoker on and off (mostly on) through the 80's and when people talked about banning smoking in pubs, I thought it was ridiculous. Why not ban drinking in pubs too? When a stranger told me he didn't like me smoking while he was eating, my response was "You go to a restaurant to eat dickhead, not a fucking pub."

Quite bizarre, looking back. 

Tbf pubs are shite now compared to pre smoking ban. 

Obviously not just because of the smoking ban but it's undeniable.

[DA Baracus]

The smoking ban was absolutely tremendous and I'm very pleased it will never be reversed.

Now pubs just need to be tougher on smokers in the doorways. There are designated areas for smokers, often pretty nice ones, so there's no need for folk to be smoking in the doorway and, worse, throwing their finished cigarette on the floor.

Smokers, why do you think it is acceptable to throw your used cigarettes on the ground? I've never once heard an argument even approaching sensible or reasonable regarding that. You wouldn't chuck a beer bottle on the floor if you were outside in a beer garden for example yet smokers seem to think it's perfectly fine to do so with their cigarettes. There are plenty of bins for them.