The Falkirk FC Thread

[Sarcastic Bairn]

There is some amount of guessing and making things up today on here, with few facts.

Some I'm sure have good intentions, right now I'm not sure it's helping anybody.

 

[LatapyBairn.]

12 minutes ago, grumpyoldman said:

Not in the interests of the club or not in the interests of the patrons who would see their shareholding diluted unless they were prepared to pony up the equivalent of FFS

The difference between the FSS reaching the 25% to where the shareholding is now would make minimal difference to where PG shareholding is, I’m absolutely not believing that has anything to do with why this decisions been taken. The plan was always for the FSS to get to that 25% figure however and the club should be helping facilitate that especially when the remaining shares are there and available to allow it, I’d like to hear what the reasoning behind the decision actually is and think the club board should release a statement explaining why they have deviated from what we all believed was the plan for the FSS. 

Edited August 7, 2023 by LatapyBairn.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Sarcastic Bairn said:

There is some amount of guessing and making things up today on here, with few facts.

Some I'm sure have good intentions, right now I'm not sure it's helping anybody.

 

Do you mind if I ask, what in particular you consider to be guessed or unfactual? 

[Hughsie]

What a club, man. What a club.

[grumpyoldman]

4 minutes ago, LatapyBairn. said:

The difference between the FSS reaching the 25% to where the shareholding is now would make minimal difference to where PG shareholding is, I’m absolutely not believing that has anything to do with why this decisions been taken.

Also a big difference between just donating money and buying shares 

[LatapyBairn.]

3 minutes ago, grumpyoldman said:

Also a big difference between just donating money and buying shares 

Like I’ve already said, I’d always presumed when the available shares had been purchased and the FSS reached the 25% needed my monthly debit would become a glorified donation anyway, I’m still perfectly happy with that being the case in the knowledge it’s supporting the club but the society needs to be allowed to reach its targeted shareholding first. 

Edited August 7, 2023 by LatapyBairn.

[FalkirkBairn2021]

13 minutes ago, Hughsie said:

What a club, man. What a club.

If there's a club in world football less suited to fan ownership than us, I'd be amazed  

[grumpyoldman]

13 minutes ago, LatapyBairn. said:

Like I’ve already said, I’d always presumed when the available shares had been purchased and the FSS reached the 25% needed my monthly debit would become a glorified donation anyway, I’m still perfectly happy with that being the case in the knowledge it’s supporting the club but the society needs to be allowed to reach its targeted shareholding first. 

Not sure everyone else will be of the same opinion 

100% on the final part, there is no reason to withhold the final unissued shares that I can see.

[Sarcastic Bairn]

12 minutes ago, Van_damage said:

Do you mind if I ask, what in particular you consider to be guessed or unfactual? 

Haha, if you think I'm sitting picking through every line in this carnage today you have no chance.

My view (if you want) if I had a concern, is to ask the questions from those that will give them, not create half a dozen pages on here from a handful of guys rattling back and forward with no real answers, as it is creating nothing but noise at this moment. As soon as you see the obvious agenda driven posters from the past appear and stir the flames it should tell you something.

 

[Craigie Watson]

Hugh Hill.

[Forever_Blue_]

1 hour ago, Zbairn said:

To calculate and rationalise FSS numbers like this is a bit disingenuous. 

There are a huge number of factors involved in our average attendance. How many are school kids ? How many are families attending and the parents pay the FSS ?  How many find the £10 a month just a bridge too far in this economic climate ? How many are unemployed ? How many are in hospitality who perhaps have only come along as a guest ? ..... so many reasons for not being a member of FSS yet still attending a match. 

Beside where I sit, a lady regularly attends with 3 kids ....thats potentially 4 FFS members but I doubt that she will cough up £40/month.  There are also a few old guys around me who probably have not got a clue what the FSS is. 

We could also hypothesise that there are thousands of Falkirk fans out there who do not attend matches. Consider semi-finals and finals. If they attended matches the club would certainly be much better off. That would be a significant cash generator for the club. What can be done to get the footfall increased? 

I'm not saying there shouldn't be a lot more in the FFS (I wish there was), but 720 is a fantastic achievement and one that benefits the club substantially in terms of the cash it gives every month.

One point I agree with is that the monthly subs could be reduced to £5. It would certainly increase numbers, but I'm not sure the uptake would be substantial. 

What I don't agree with, is trying to rationalise the FSS uptake with regular attendance. 

 

 

I accept your points, I'm certainly not trying to criticise anyone for not being a member of FSS, and I apologise if it came across the way you've taken it, not my intention it was just a quick/lazy example to help explain my point. What I'm trying to say is two things: 1. I don't think FSS currently represents the majority of the fans, attending or non-attending. I would imagine/hope there is atleast quadruple or more non-attending fans out there. 2. I think the FSS need to lower the minimum subscription as you mention yourself, £10 per person is too much in my eyes in the current climate for many fans. I'd suggest a 'give what you can afford' mantra, I'd probably go lower than £5, maybe have £1 as the minimum. £1 might seem pointless but it gets people in the door and helps not exclude fans currently put off for financial reasons, allows FSS to build their membership levels and allows as many fans as possible to have a say in how the club is run. 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Sarcastic Bairn said:

Haha, if you think I'm sitting picking through every line in this carnage today you have no chance.

My view (if you want) if I had a concern, is to ask the questions from those that will give them, not create half a dozen pages on here from a handful of guys rattling back and forward with no real answers, as it is creating nothing but noise at this moment. As soon as you see the obvious agenda driven posters from the past appear and stir the flames it should tell you something.

 

Not sure what posters you mean or their agenda but do think there are a lot of facts that have been shared so that’s why I asked.

I had a good conversation with the Chair of the FSS regarding my views the other day but me speaking solely to the FSS doesn’t give any feeling of what the membership feels on the matter so places like this are good to form a bit of debate and understand the wider consensus.

Know it can be a bit of a bore but we’ve had around half a dozen pages of ex players I’d rather forget, although appreciate the humour of it.

Feel this is important though and if the club thinks it is ok to not sell shares to the FSS then that’s a load of Jordan Whyte. 

Edited August 7, 2023 by Van_damage

[Forever_Blue_]

1 hour ago, Duncan Freemason said:

FSS are being allowed to purchase shares to below the point where the organisation would have a meaningful say. That to me is a deliberate act.

All subscriptions thereafter are expected to go to the club to use as they please, but with nothing in return. They will however sell shares E”sewhere provided its not FSS.

Apparently, the FSS Committee have agreed for that to happen without any consultation with FSS members….for me, that’s unacceptable.

Lower the subscription cost? What’s the point? There will be no shares in return. You’d be as well just giving the money to FF. No need to join.

My understanding from the email I received from the FSS last night is that they're still trying to get the required amount of shares and they're holding a fan meeting in September to discuss how the FSS Continue to support the club financially moving forward. 

Appreciate you say FSS have apparently 'apparently' agreed for our money to go to the club without shares in return and without consultation with the members.. I would expect to be consulted, but at the same time I also didn't expect the club to keep dishing out shares infinitly. 

Hopefully the concerns you have can be answered at the meeting and everyone can start pulling in the same direction. My reason for suggesting lower the subscription amount is to get more fans on board with FSS and having a say on how the club is run. 

[Guest]

Sorry but lastly, before the September FSS meeting the £15k-£20k or so that the FSS should have sitting in the accounts since the last share transfer should not be handed to the club without any shares in return. That’s not what we believed was happening with our last 3 months contributions. 

Edited August 7, 2023 by Van_damage

[roman_bairn]

1 hour ago, FalkirkBairn2021 said:

If there's a club in world football less suited to fan ownership than us, I'd be amazed  

I’m starting to find a lot of these comments really irritating.
We have a new board that some on here are mates with so let’s just let them get on with it irrespective of whether they are acting in the best interests of those that are willing to part with their hard earned cash each week to support their objectives. Is that what we are all just to do now?
Never mind,  we beat Annan Athletic on Saturday so the world is all ok….FFS……

[Hughsie]

1 hour ago, roman_bairn said:

I’m starting to find a lot of these comments really irritating.
We have a new board that some on here are mates with so let’s just let them get on with it irrespective of whether they are acting in the best interests of those that are willing to part with their hard earned cash each week to support their objectives. Is that what we are all just to do now?
Never mind,  we beat Annan Athletic on Saturday so the world is all ok….FFS……

Literally nobody said that but you get yourself all raging about it, by all means.

[JulioBairn]

1 hour ago, roman_bairn said:

I’m starting to find a lot of these comments really irritating.
We have a new board that some on here are mates with so let’s just let them get on with it irrespective of whether they are acting in the best interests of those that are willing to part with their hard earned cash each week to support their objectives. Is that what we are all just to do now?
Never mind,  we beat Annan Athletic on Saturday so the world is all ok….FFS……

I don’t think the comment had anything to do with who knows the new board and who knows the old board. It was more to do with the fact our fans will literally argue with each other over the colour of grass (or astroturf pellets). 

[Shodwall cat]

7 minutes ago, JulioBairn said:

I don’t think the comment had anything to do with who knows the new board and who knows the old board. It was more to do with the fact our fans will literally argue with each other over the colour of grass (or astroturf pellets). 

A statement goes out and then we all make up our minds as to what it means . Some err on the negative some the positive. When it's off field stuff I'd rather get a bit more info first from the folk involved first.  I thought we might have to wait till the meeting for this but Kevin James left knee has painted the picture of how things stand and questions do need to be asked regarding the current situation. The bod need to make it clear why the plans have changed re the extra shares being purchased.

[JulioBairn]

10 minutes ago, Shodwall cat said:

A statement goes out and then we all make up our minds as to what it means . Some err on the negative some the positive. When it's off field stuff I'd rather get a bit more info first from the folk involved first.  I thought we might have to wait till the meeting for this but Kevin James left knee has painted the picture of how things stand and questions do need to be asked regarding the current situation. The bod need to make it clear why the plans have changed re the extra shares being purchased.

Thanks but my point still stands

[Zbairn]

2 hours ago, Forever_Blue_ said:

I accept your points, I'm certainly not trying to criticise anyone for not being a member of FSS, and I apologise if it came across the way you've taken it, not my intention it was just a quick/lazy example to help explain my point. What I'm trying to say is two things: 1. I don't think FSS currently represents the majority of the fans, attending or non-attending. I would imagine/hope there is atleast quadruple or more non-attending fans out there. 2. I think the FSS need to lower the minimum subscription as you mention yourself, £10 per person is too much in my eyes in the current climate for many fans. I'd suggest a 'give what you can afford' mantra, I'd probably go lower than £5, maybe have £1 as the minimum. £1 might seem pointless but it gets people in the door and helps not exclude fans currently put off for financial reasons, allows FSS to build their membership levels and allows as many fans as possible to have a say in how the club is run. 

Rock and a hard place with this one.

I agree that reducing subscriptions may increase number of participating fans, which is a good thing. However, I also agree with KJLK that reducing from the current £10 level may also result in fans reducing their subs meaning the club gets less cash in, which is a bad thing. 

No right or wrong here and I'm not sure which is the best for everyone.