The Falkirk FC Thread

[Bairney The Dinosaur]

1 hour ago, Mr Grimsdale said:

BPM? Anyway good try. But the fans are not just FSS are they? We 100% have to stick together I agree. But there is 80% + of the support not in FSS so the Board has a duty to look after all the parts. FSS reps would always take feedback from the members. I assume they meet with the FSS committee on a regular basis to get the feedback? What I want to see is everyone working together. 

Just a bit of fun

I took umbrage at what I perceived was a suggestion FSS doesn't need a strong personality who would speak for and garner the support of the fans.

I'm especially sensitive at the moment that there are attempts circling again to paint football fans as some deviant other - not the club obviously, but wider authorities. It is going to require the same backlash as the OBFTC Act.

[Zbairn]

5 minutes ago, Jimmy1876 said:

I get what you mean by saying this and I fully believe the patrons are invested in FSS as evidenced by the offer to buy shares and gift to FSS. 

Interesting point, but I think the official wording was gift and proxy. A subtle difference between the two.

A gift means that the shares are owned by the FSS. Proxy effectively means a loan. The shares are not owned by the FSS. The proxy can be withdrawn anytime if the individual Patron so decides. 

[LatapyBairn.]

16 minutes ago, Zbairn said:

Am I correct in saying that all BoD members are Patrons?

Possibly, what’s your point? I was looking h for an answer as I genuinely wasn’t sure? 

[LatapyBairn.]

8 minutes ago, Jimmy1876 said:

I get what you mean by saying this and I fully believe the patrons are invested in FSS as evidenced by the offer to buy shares and gift to FSS. But this argument is a little redundant. The investment of 10k minimum is not on the same level as £10 per month to someone who has 10k effectively disposable. So naturally the interests are likely to aline with the larger investment. It’s probably not the best supported argument for why there should be no concern about all of the board members being patrons. Better to refer to what they have shown in support of FSS. 

We are not talking about a stocks and shares type investment for your old age. Not sure how the priorities of a person from either group would differ ti be honest. Not like anybody is ever going to get a cash return. 

[Mr Grimsdale]

5 minutes ago, Bairney The Dinosaur said:

Just a bit of fun

I took umbrage at what I perceived was a suggestion FSS doesn't need a strong personality who would speak for and garner the support of the fans.

I'm especially sensitive at the moment that there are attempts circling again to paint football fans as some deviant other - not the club obviously, but wider authorities. It is going to require the same backlash as the OBFTC Act.

I certainly am not saying the FSS should have lapdogs. They have to get the best reps as they possibly can. Anyone on the Board of a fan owned club who doesn’t have all its fans at the front of most decisions shouldn’t be on the Board. 
 

Edited September 8, 2023 by Mr Grimsdale

[Zbairn]

4 minutes ago, LatapyBairn. said:

Possibly, what’s your point? I was looking h for an answer as I genuinely wasn’t sure? 

I think you are telling we fibs there. You well know that all the BoD's are also FSS members. 

[LatapyBairn.]

17 hours ago, Zbairn said:

Interesting point, but I think the official wording was gift and proxy. A subtle difference between the two.

A gift means that the shares are owned by the FSS. Proxy effectively means a loan. The shares are not owned by the FSS. The proxy can be withdrawn anytime if the individual Patron so decides. 

Shares are being gifted to the FSS, some patrons chose to hand a proportion of they’re shareholding over to the FSS and some did not, thats an individual decision but my thanks goes to the ones who did and got the FSS to the 25% point. They FSS will indeed own the said shareholding.  (At the very least they’ll get the shares I’ve pledged anyway) 

Edited September 9, 2023 by LatapyBairn.

[Zbairn]

12 minutes ago, Mr Grimsdale said:

So the rep/reps are not representing the members well or not? 

As I stated in my opinion, I don't think so. I'll give my reasoning at the end. 

Incidentally, before you ask, there is no way in hell I would get involved in the Board of the FSS. It's a thankless task.  However, they took it upon themselves to be the FSS Board. Therefore they have to take accountability for their actions.

As a good friend and FSS member stated to me during a chat " The FSS Board appear to have entered into a contract with the club (which was unanimously agreed by both FSS Board and FFS Club Board rep). This contract details an acceptance that no more shares are forthcoming, even if some are still available to purchase. The purchase of shares and fan ownership is pivotal to why I joined the FSS. This decision should not have been without getting back to the FSS membership who pay their dues. I find it totally unacceptable."

[Zbairn]

5 minutes ago, LatapyBairn. said:

Shares are being gifted to the FSS, some patrons chose to hand a proportion of they’re shareholding over to the FSS and some did not, thats an individual decision but my thanks goes to the ones who did and got the FSS to the 25% point. They FSS will indeed own the said shareholding. 

So why the word "proxy" in the official statement ?

[Harry Kinnear]

Let’s rap all this board, patron, FSS talk and get onto talking about tomorrows game……………………ah f**k

[Mr Grimsdale]

13 minutes ago, Zbairn said:

As I stated in my opinion, I don't think so. I'll give my reasoning at the end. 

Incidentally, before you ask, there is no way in hell I would get involved in the Board of the FSS. It's a thankless task.  However, they took it upon themselves to be the FSS Board. Therefore they have to take accountability for their actions.

As a good friend and FSS member stated to me during a chat " The FSS Board appear to have entered into a contract with the club (which was unanimously agreed by both FSS Board and FFS Club Board rep). This contract details an acceptance that no more shares are forthcoming, even if some are still available to purchase. The purchase of shares and fan ownership is pivotal to why I joined the FSS. This decision should not have been without getting back to the FSS membership who pay their dues. I find it totally unacceptable."

Did you not say a few days ago on here you had left the FSS and were giving the same amount of cash to the club in different ways? 

[Mr Grimsdale]

17 minutes ago, Zbairn said:

So why the word "proxy" in the official statement ?

Does that not keep the FSS on their toes knowing that they could lose shares if they are not doing a good job? 

[Shodwall cat]

4 minutes ago, Mr Grimsdale said:

Does that not keep the FSS on their toes knowing that they could lose shares if they are not doing a good job? 

The concern would be that if there is disagreement between the two main bodies this would be withdrawn.  Plus the way of keeping them on their toes is surely that they will be voted out if they are not doing a good job. You want to ensure that they always have the 25.1 percent or whatever it is.

[Jimmy1876]

15 hours ago, LatapyBairn. said:

We are not talking about a stocks and shares type investment for your old age. Not sure how the priorities of a person from either group would differ ti be honest. Not like anybody is ever going to get a cash return. 

Not sure how the priorities of a person with £10k disposable cash might differ from someone who can only just afford £10? From what I've seen I don't know about any discourse between groups but to say being part of the patrons and being part of FSS is the same is not really realistic. The patrons is a far more exclusive group and 30 or so voices are much more easily heard than 700 as is someone who can pull away £10k over someone who is cancelling a £10 subscription. So if there were to ever be a disagreement between the groups the voice of a patron is likely heard far more clearly at board level. So it's naive to say that just because they are part of both groups that means they have equal weighting. Not saying they don't as I have no idea on an individual basis and everyone here is obviously a massive fan. Just pointing out that argument is a bit redundant. 

Edited September 9, 2023 by Jimmy1876

[Harry Kinnear]

Nice to see the Falkirk flag in amongst the Scotland fans out in Cyprus

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Mr Grimsdale said:

Does that not keep the FSS on their toes knowing that they could lose shares if they are not doing a good job? 

Why keep the FSS on their toes and not the patrons? All equal, all in it together, yet the one leg of the stool that represents a much larger proportion of supporters and continues to pay in money each year will continue to have the same say as the other legs, no matter if they double, triple or quadruple their proceeds. This part of the stool must be ‘kept on their toes’ by the other sides of the stool though?

Edited September 9, 2023 by Van_damage

[Mr Grimsdale]

6 hours ago, Van_damage said:

Why keep the FSS on their toes and not the patrons? All equal, all in it together, yet the one leg of the stool that represents a much larger proportion of supporters and continues to pay in money each year will continue to have the same say as the other legs, no matter if they double, triple or quadruple their proceeds. This part of the stool must be ‘kept on their toes’ by the other sides of the stool though?

You and 2/3 others have been the ones moaning about the FSS’s decision to do a deal with the club you don’t agree with not me. 

So how do you think the membership of FSS, which I believe lots of the patrons are members of police the committee? You are still a member I assume? 

Edited September 9, 2023 by Mr Grimsdale

[Aidan]

Taking a train down on the 30th and making a day of it, where is the best bet for something to eat and to watch whatever the early kick off? Behind The Wall seems like an obvious choice although any time I was ever in there, was usually at night when I was pished so I can’t remember what the set up was like for watching sport. Any other recommendations?

[Guest]

44 minutes ago, Mr Grimsdale said:

You and 2/3 others have been the ones moaning about the FSS’s decision to do a deal with the club you don’t agree with not me. 

So how do you think the membership of FSS, which I believe lots of the patrons are members of police the committee? You are still a member I assume? 

No. As I said on here I cancelled on the principle that members didn’t get a say regarding the deal. 

If the FSS don’t get the full transfer of shares to get them to 25% and only rely on proxies then that exemplifies the issue some of us had about it. 

What you say isn’t about members policing the FSS but a few individuals with proxies policing them. If that is to ‘keep them on their toes’ as you said then it’s not the membership who are policing it but the few who gave them the proxies. 

[Guest]

16 hours ago, Mr Grimsdale said:

I said what I thought the club AGM did last year. As I said maybe I got that wrong and it is one more year. 
IMO if a Board is effective a full churn of people is the last thing it needs. 

As far as the FSS reps go they look after the clubs interests first and foremost - that is their statutory duty as company directors. Rabble rousing Mick Lynch’s are the last thing this club or the fans needs currently 

To take you up on your earlier point, what does keep people on their toes are fans who are willing to bring light to poor decisions. That’s what unions do with regards to companies who have bad business practices. 

Any club director should be willing to be held to account by the fans. That doesn’t mean they should be vilified but the position they’re in requires being responsible for decisions, good and bad. 

The worst thing that could happen is what has happened in the past where the BoD only listen to those who agree with them. 

‘the board have built a fiefdom of sycophancy around themselves and anybody who has ever criticised them At any point over the last 23 years quickly becomes persona. Non-Grata. If you fall out of favour, you will very quickly be thrown under the bus as various people were found out to the cost over the last number of years. It’s not their club, it’s certainly not their club now as they only have 37% of the shares’

That quote is in reference to the previous board. Hopefully history doesn’t repeat itself.