Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[hellbhoy]

1 hour ago, The Holiday Song said:

Happy for anyone to correct me on this, but don't think you're approaching this the correct way?

As a (very) basic example, Rangers went to a player and said, "We'll pay you £15k a week". Player says "No chance, Celtic have offered me £20k a week". "Yes, but you'll pay 40% tax on that, so you'll only get £12k. You won't pay the same tax on our £15k..."

Rangers themselves weren't actually trying to avoid paying tax, they just wanted to use a scheme to get more bang for their buck.

On a related note - my reading of it is that, from a footballing sense, the wrongdoing  occurs because the side letters were part of the player's deal but were deliberately  not included in the registration process. That's why the titles should be stripped.

I'll happily correct you. Dual contracts? One which was properly declared and had the correct amount of PAYE paid to the HMRC at 40%. The contract with the club declared to the SFA was fully legit and then we have the EBT contract which wasn't taxed in any way shape or form and is the focal point.

The declared legit wage will be most certainly be just about most of the players total earnings or else it would look completely suspicious if larger amounts were placed into the EBT scheme than the players declared salary with the club. Using your £20K figure lets say £5K was placed into the EBT scheme and the leftover £15K gets taxed through the appropriate channels as earnings and then £6K disappears into the treasuries coffers leaving the player with £9K a week and is totally legit.

This is where it starts to look stupid to scrimp on minimal amounts of money which ultimately killed the club. That £5K placed into the EBT scheme is really only a £2K boost to the players wages and I'll expect most people would see an extra £2K in their pocket is better off than in the treasuries pocket. Instead of taking home a fully legit wage of £12K each week the player can now expect to receive ultimately £14K a week.

We aren't talking about huge significant amounts here, but just enough to lure the player to sign for the club even if it's only a grand or two extra than what other clubs were offering especially if the monies concerned were identical. If you signed for Rangers you would expect to receive £2K more than if you had signed for another club legitimately taxing your wages.

That's why I find it so fucking funny that they died to boost their players wage budget by a paltry £12.5K a week. At times it could have been much higher or lower depending on the players using the EBT scheme but overall through the 10 years or so they used it averaged out at that pishy amount they they didn't want to pay in tax.

[Monkey Tennis]

10 hours ago, hellbhoy said:

 

The declared legit wage will be most certainly be just about most of the players total earnings or else it would look completely suspicious if larger amounts were placed into the EBT scheme than the players declared salary with the club. 

I don't think that's the case to be honest - it certainly isn't universally.

Just look at the size of the sums certain individuals received via EBT for proof.

The clincher came in one of the Mark Daly programmes though.  I don't recall the figures, but Daly cited that the up front declared wage for Sasa Papac was so low that a member of the office staff queried it, before being advised that the bulk of the wages was being paid by EBT.

Edited July 10, 2017 by Monkey Tennis

[hellbhoy]

7 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said:

I don't think that's the case to be honest - it certainly isn't universally.

Just look at the size of the sums certain individuals received via EBT for proof.

The clincher came in one of the Mark Daly programmes though.  I don't recall the figures, but Daly cited that the up front declared wage for Sasa Papac was so low that a member of the office staff queried it, before being advised that the bulk of the wages was being paid by EBT.

I do think when people look at the amounts in total the actual weekly benefit becomes distorted. Sasa Papac received £319,000 over a six year period he was at the club, but if you work that out to a weekly amount it comes to just under £1,000 a week over the six years he was a Rangers player.

Tore Andre Flo on the other hand reputed to have received £1.3 million over a two year period and can be broken down to £12.500K a week.

Rangers weren't making massive amounts of payments via the EBT scheme, they did just enough to lure players to sign for the club by offering them a better wage structure that gave the players more cash in their pocket than their competition did to sign players. Other methods may apply though.

[Ken Fitlike]

I do think when people look at the amounts in total the actual weekly benefit becomes distorted. Sasa Papac received £319,000 over a six year period he was at the club, but if you work that out to a weekly amount it comes to just under £1,000 a week over the six years he was a Rangers player.
Tore Andre Flo on the other hand reputed to have received £1.3 million over a two year period and can be broken down to £12.500K a week.
Rangers weren't making massive amounts of payments via the EBT scheme, they did just enough to lure players to sign for the club by offering them a better wage structure that gave the players more cash in their pocket than their competition did to sign players. Other methods may apply though.

The equivalent of getting a brown envelope stuffed with £1k per week = not a massive amount.

Would he have even bothered coming to Ibrox without that factor in his earnings?

Multiplied by several dozen other recruits.

[Insaintee]

2 hours ago, hellbhoy said:

I do think when people look at the amounts in total the actual weekly benefit becomes distorted. Sasa Papac received £319,000 over a six year period he was at the club, but if you work that out to a weekly amount it comes to just under £1,000 a week over the six years he was a Rangers player.

Tore Andre Flo on the other hand reputed to have received £1.3 million over a two year period and can be broken down to £12.500K a week.

Rangers weren't making massive amounts of payments via the EBT scheme, they did just enough to lure players to sign for the club by offering them a better wage structure that gave the players more cash in their pocket than their competition did to sign players. Other methods may apply though.

You must remember that Papac was injured for a considerable amount of his time with rangers during which period, you would assume that he was paid by the insurance company 

[Insaintee]

38 minutes ago, Ken Fitlike said:

The equivalent of getting a brown envelope stuffed with £1k per week = not a massive amount.

Would he have even bothered coming to Ibrox without that factor in his earnings?

Multiplied by several dozen other recruits.
 

Tell you what, send me £1k per week if it's not a massive amount. Tax free preferred.

[hellbhoy]

33 minutes ago, Ken Fitlike said:

The equivalent of getting a brown envelope stuffed with £1k per week = not a massive amount.

Would he have even bothered coming to Ibrox without that factor in his earnings?

Multiplied by several dozen other recruits.
 

That was my initial thoughts but like MT and other have posted those small amounts add up to a large lump sum after a few months as each of the loans were paid out.

Sasa might have had a legit wage and was considering a move and quite possibly was offered that £319,000 over a shorter period increasing the weekly amount.

[hellbhoy]

Just now, Insaintee said:

You must remember that Papac was injured for a considerable amount of his time with rangers during which period, you would assume that he was paid by the insurance company 

If I know the insurance companies they will increase the premiums when they have to pay out clawing that money back somehow.

[scottxs]

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15413651.Craig_Whyte_in_line_for___5m_liquidation_payout_as_HMRC_is_set_to_lose_out_on_Rangers_tax_case_payback/

[bennett]

On 10/07/2017 at 17:27, Insaintee said:

You must remember that Papac was injured for a considerable amount of his time with rangers during which period, you would assume that he was paid by the insurance company 

I don't recall Papac being injured that often, the only injury i can think of was a head knock he received against them and i don't think he was put for that long.

 

 

[The DA]

34 minutes ago, bennett said:

I don't recall Papac being injured that often, the only injury i can think of was a head knock he received against them and i don't think he was put for that long.

 

 

Can't even bring himself to say Celt... Cel... Cel...  FFS I see what he means.

[Insaintee]

51 minutes ago, bennett said:

I don't recall Papac being injured that often, the only injury i can think of was a head knock he received against them and i don't think he was put for that long.

 

 

Were you dunk at the time?  His knee injury kept him out for almost ahttp://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/sasa-papac-injury-fear-for-rangers-1019361 season.

 

 

Edited July 16, 2017 by Insaintee

[bennett]

1 minute ago, Insaintee said:

Were you dunk at the time?  His knee injury kept him out for almost a season.

I remember him as being mostly ever present, saying that there's been billions of sevco stories in recent years to recall.

 

[The DA]

9 minutes ago, Insaintee said:

Were you dunk at the time?  His knee injury kept him out for almost ahttp://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/sasa-papac-injury-fear-for-rangers-1019361 season.

 

 

Interesting that The Record updated the page 3 years after it was first published.  Well, I say interesting, but only from a conspiracy point-of-view.

[Drew Brees]

 

BDO will now also pursue more than 80 former players and staff, like Murray and former club captain Barry Ferguson, who benefited from an elaborate tax avoidance scheme – Employee Benefit Trusts, which the Supreme Court ruled were disguised salary payments. The recipients will be forced to pay back millions of pounds to the HMRC through BDO or face bankruptcy.

 

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15428043.Rangers___39_oldcos__39__stalk_the_club/?ref=twtrec

 

[Sting777]

1 hour ago, Drew Brees said:

 

BDO will now also pursue more than 80 former players and staff, like Murray and former club captain Barry Ferguson, who benefited from an elaborate tax avoidance scheme – Employee Benefit Trusts, which the Supreme Court ruled were disguised salary payments. The recipients will be forced to pay back millions of pounds to the HMRC through BDO or face bankruptcy.

 

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15428043.Rangers___39_oldcos__39__stalk_the_club/?ref=twtrec

 

Have never understood why all assets including the ground and training ground weren't sold at the correct market price and the proceeds distributed to those owed money. In reality Ibrokes should be a Tesco or Asda by now!

Edited July 23, 2017 by Sting777

[wastecoatwilly]

[Insaintee]

3 hours ago, wastecoatwilly said:

if the assets are shown to belong to Sevco 5088 then they will have a claim against the current incarnation for back rent and use of intellectual property. 

This is never going to go away is it

[Insaintee]

3 hours ago, wastecoatwilly said:

It is also possible that Wavetower could make a claim that they have a lean on Ibrox which would mean that the transfer to Sevco was fraudulent in the first place.

 

As John Brown would say, Show us the deeds!

[wastecoatwilly]

15 minutes ago, Insaintee said:

It is also possible that Wavetower could make a claim that they have a lean on Ibrox which would mean that the transfer to Sevco was fraudulent in the first place.

 

As John Brown would say, Show us the deeds!

You have got to think that no way has Craig whyte done walking away here