Monkey Tennis Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 19 hours ago, hellbhoy said: If it makes you feel any better MT. I am going to post the amount of tax the club tried to avoid each week that eventually killed Rangers FC est 1872. After toting up and using division 10years & 52weeks after deducting the directors and staff EBT payments of around £10.75 million they put in over the 10 years the EBT scheme was in use came to a paltry weekly amount of just under £28 grand a week. Back then there was a 40% tax rate for the amounts of wages Rangers players received, they were all in the top tax band. Factoring in that they would have to pay 40% tax we reach a ridiculously embarrassing £12.5K a week in actual tax each week Rangers FC was avoiding paying to the HMRC. I still can't get over that Rangers FC actually died to avoid paying the HMRC a ridiculous amount of around £12.5K a week, that's just about a wage of one shitty player they signed the Rangers fans would happily see the back off each season and there was more than one each season. Died to save £12.5 thousand pounds a week. It makes me feel no better or worse. I'm less fussy about continuation than I am about the fact that a complete and massive exception to how registration issues are handled In our game, has been made in order to benefit one of the biggest clubs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 16 hours ago, scoobles said: Club 1872 has taken some time to consider the verdict in the ‘Big Tax Case’ (BTC) as we wanted to gauge the immediate reaction of sections of the media, Scottish football clubs, their supporters groups and the Scottish football authorities. That reaction has been, in the main, as hysterical, inaccurate and agenda driven as we expected. It appears there is still a desire in certain quarters for Scottish football to eat itself alive. Contrary to the line taken by several dishonest media commentators, encouraged predominantly by Peter Lawwell and Celtic Football Club, this result does not mean that Rangers have “broken the law”, “acted illegally”, “cheated” or gained any sporting advantage through the historic use of EBT payments. The Lord Nimmo Smith tribunal dealt comprehensively with this matter and, as the SFA has correctly reiterated, is final and binding. Despite this, we remain concerned that the SPFL board may attempt to act on behalf of Celtic in this matter. It is our belief that a small number of other SPFL clubs, including Aberdeen and Dundee Utd, would like to see them do so. We are also aware that historically the SPFL lawyer, Rod McKenzie has taken an extremely hostile attitude towards Rangers Football Club which we do not believe is founded in his legal opinions. Should it be the case that the SPFL do decide to act for the benefit of Celtic, then the clubs represented on that board should be aware that Club 1872, and we are sure Rangers Football Club and the wider Rangers support, will use every legal means necessary to challenge those who promote, support or facilitate such a course of action. That will include, but not be limited to, mounting a legal challenge to the SPFL, boycotting publications whose journalists misreport the facts of the matter and demanding SPFL and SFA investigations into any and all dubious actions by those clubs over the period of the last 50 years. The investigations we will demand specifically involve, but are not limited to, the actions of several boards, individual board members and employees of Celtic Football Club, across a variety of issues which have been in the public domain for many years but never properly addressed by the football authorities. We will also demand that the football authorities open multiple investigations and examine in public, and in detail, all deals which allowed Scottish football clubs to write off their debts and the fit and proper status of all majority and joint owners of SPFL clubs. We will not be lectured on integrity, sporting or otherwise, by the clubs involved. The last time there was an attempt to steal our titles, those involved operated in an environment where Rangers and the Rangers support were in a state of turmoil. The focus of our support was in removing various unsavoury characters from within our own club. That will not be the case this time and any clubs, club officials and commentators involved in any such dishonest and self-serving campaign will be met by wide-ranging, robust, legal and economic challenges at every step of the way. It would be our preference for Scottish football to return to a more normalised condition where sporting endeavour on the pitch is the source of rivalry between clubs. If that is not the wish of the wider Scottish footballing community then they will find us to be extremely committed opponents nonetheless. 54 and counting. Absolutely marvellous. Spoilt, thick children with no grasp whatever of the relevant issues. I love the idea that they're no longer in turmoil, now that a convicted criminal is at the helm and they've just lost to Luxembourg's fourth finest. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 15 hours ago, Henrik's tongue said: I'm on holiday just now, so I've not seen much on the whole thing beyond the joys of P&B. Has the above been highlighted by any media sources though? Are newspapers, TV or radio programmes pointing to this and the resultant dishonesty of his recent waffling on the subject? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever_blueco Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 Monkey tennis heads gone -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 (edited) 12 hours ago, BrockvilleBairn said: Celtic fans care way more about this than the rest of us and it fucks me right off when I see them trying to cosy up to fans of clubs who despise them as much as Rangers, boke inducing. Those titles and Rangers will forever be tainted by what has happened and that for me is enough, sick to the back teeth of hearing about it. Much as Celtic's noises on this are opportunistic, I can't agree with a word of the above. What Rangers have hitherto got away with here is unprecedented. I'm not talking about spending beyond their means. I'm talking about deliberately providing false information when registering players. Not all of that damage can be undone, but the injustice of letting them keep the proceeds can be. No football fan in this country should want to see Rangers keep the relevant titles. They should be declared void. Edited July 9, 2017 by Monkey Tennis 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williemillersmoustache Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 I'm on holiday just now, so I've not seen much on the whole thing beyond the joys of P&B. Has the above been highlighted by any media sources though? Are newspapers, TV or radio programmes pointing to this and the resultant dishonesty of his recent waffling on the subject? The Rangers fans fan and all round true blue Britney was fairly scathing. Other than that, what do you think? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henrik's tongue Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 9 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said: I'm on holiday just now, so I've not seen much on the whole thing beyond the joys of P&B. Has the above been highlighted by any media sources though? Are newspapers, TV or radio programmes pointing to this and the resultant dishonesty of his recent waffling on the subject? Heard it mentioned once on Radio Clyde. They read his latest statement out and then the one from 2012. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 12 minutes ago, Forever_blueco said: Monkey tennis heads gone How so? What have I posted that's not rational? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sting777 Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 (edited) No matter what you think of the guy and some of his articles, this one hits the spot.....especially the final analysis!! https://johnjamessite.com/2017/07/09/the-asterisk-years/#comments Edited July 9, 2017 by Sting777 -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henrik's tongue Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 1 minute ago, Monkey Tennis said: How so? What have I posted that's not rational? You shouldn't be highlighting the 2012 statement from King!!!1!! Or something. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paralytic Critic Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said: Has the above been highlighted by any media sources though? Are newspapers, TV or radio programmes pointing to this and the resultant dishonesty of his recent waffling on the subject? Nope and no point holding your breath on this matter either. King just seems to say what he likes but Jabba keeps the smsm in its place with the sound of silence. No matter how big their bubble of deceit gets one thing for sure is bubbles burst. Edited July 9, 2017 by Paralytic Critic 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave.j Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 With every statement, Bill Struth turns in his grave. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Fitlike Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 Dignity 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insaintee Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 By all means let's have an inquiry into sexual abuse in football and punish those responsible. But lets not link this Rangers titles. The logic of that is "If you leave our titles alone and allow us to get away with cheating, we'll let you get of with sexual abuse." Sorry that's not acceptable. IF club 1872 have information about sexual abuse then they should report it to the police. IF they have genuine concerns about the behaviour of clubs (including their own) then they should be call for a full inquiry led by the Scottish Government and not by the toothless, spineless and compromised SFA 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insaintee Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 By all means let's have an inquiry into financial irregularity in football and punish those responsible. Dundee, Livingstone, Gretna, Rangers, Motherwell, etc. Let's see clearly what they've been up to and what is or should be the appropriate response And that must include Rangers tainted titles. Particualary concerning is that three of the current rangers board were on the board of the cheating tax dodging version and are clearly not fit and proper individuals and should not be involved with Scottish Football in any capacity. IF club 1872 have information about finical abuse then they support strong action. IF they have genuine concerns about the behaviour of clubs (including their own) then they should be call for the SFA to punish those that are guilty. It's almost as if club 1872 are calling for action to be taken. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holiday Song Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 On 08/07/2017 at 08:55, hellbhoy said: If it makes you feel any better MT. I am going to post the amount of tax the club tried to avoid each week that eventually killed Rangers FC est 1872. After toting up and using division 10years & 52weeks after deducting the directors and staff EBT payments of around £10.75 million they put in over the 10 years the EBT scheme was in use came to a paltry weekly amount of just under £28 grand a week. Back then there was a 40% tax rate for the amounts of wages Rangers players received, they were all in the top tax band. Factoring in that they would have to pay 40% tax we reach a ridiculously embarrassing £12.5K a week in actual tax each week Rangers FC was avoiding paying to the HMRC. I still can't get over that Rangers FC actually died to avoid paying the HMRC a ridiculous amount of around £12.5K a week, that's just about a wage of one shitty player they signed the Rangers fans would happily see the back off each season and there was more than one each season. Died to save £12.5 thousand pounds a week. Happy for anyone to correct me on this, but don't think you're approaching this the correct way? As a (very) basic example, Rangers went to a player and said, "We'll pay you £15k a week". Player says "No chance, Celtic have offered me £20k a week". "Yes, but you'll pay 40% tax on that, so you'll only get £12k. You won't pay the same tax on our £15k..." Rangers themselves weren't actually trying to avoid paying tax, they just wanted to use a scheme to get more bang for their buck. On a related note - my reading of it is that, from a footballing sense, the wrongdoing occurs because the side letters were part of the player's deal but were deliberately not included in the registration process. That's why the titles should be stripped. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellbhoy Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 1 hour ago, The Holiday Song said: Happy for anyone to correct me on this, but don't think you're approaching this the correct way? As a (very) basic example, Rangers went to a player and said, "We'll pay you £15k a week". Player says "No chance, Celtic have offered me £20k a week". "Yes, but you'll pay 40% tax on that, so you'll only get £12k. You won't pay the same tax on our £15k..." Rangers themselves weren't actually trying to avoid paying tax, they just wanted to use a scheme to get more bang for their buck. On a related note - my reading of it is that, from a footballing sense, the wrongdoing occurs because the side letters were part of the player's deal but were deliberately not included in the registration process. That's why the titles should be stripped. I'll happily correct you. Dual contracts? One which was properly declared and had the correct amount of PAYE paid to the HMRC at 40%. The contract with the club declared to the SFA was fully legit and then we have the EBT contract which wasn't taxed in any way shape or form and is the focal point. The declared legit wage will be most certainly be just about most of the players total earnings or else it would look completely suspicious if larger amounts were placed into the EBT scheme than the players declared salary with the club. Using your £20K figure lets say £5K was placed into the EBT scheme and the leftover £15K gets taxed through the appropriate channels as earnings and then £6K disappears into the treasuries coffers leaving the player with £9K a week and is totally legit. This is where it starts to look stupid to scrimp on minimal amounts of money which ultimately killed the club. That £5K placed into the EBT scheme is really only a £2K boost to the players wages and I'll expect most people would see an extra £2K in their pocket is better off than in the treasuries pocket. Instead of taking home a fully legit wage of £12K each week the player can now expect to receive ultimately £14K a week. We aren't talking about huge significant amounts here, but just enough to lure the player to sign for the club even if it's only a grand or two extra than what other clubs were offering especially if the monies concerned were identical. If you signed for Rangers you would expect to receive £2K more than if you had signed for another club legitimately taxing your wages. That's why I find it so fucking funny that they died to boost their players wage budget by a paltry £12.5K a week. At times it could have been much higher or lower depending on the players using the EBT scheme but overall through the 10 years or so they used it averaged out at that pishy amount they they didn't want to pay in tax. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 (edited) 10 hours ago, hellbhoy said: The declared legit wage will be most certainly be just about most of the players total earnings or else it would look completely suspicious if larger amounts were placed into the EBT scheme than the players declared salary with the club. I don't think that's the case to be honest - it certainly isn't universally. Just look at the size of the sums certain individuals received via EBT for proof. The clincher came in one of the Mark Daly programmes though. I don't recall the figures, but Daly cited that the up front declared wage for Sasa Papac was so low that a member of the office staff queried it, before being advised that the bulk of the wages was being paid by EBT. Edited July 10, 2017 by Monkey Tennis 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellbhoy Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 7 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said: I don't think that's the case to be honest - it certainly isn't universally. Just look at the size of the sums certain individuals received via EBT for proof. The clincher came in one of the Mark Daly programmes though. I don't recall the figures, but Daly cited that the up front declared wage for Sasa Papac was so low that a member of the office staff queried it, before being advised that the bulk of the wages was being paid by EBT. I do think when people look at the amounts in total the actual weekly benefit becomes distorted. Sasa Papac received £319,000 over a six year period he was at the club, but if you work that out to a weekly amount it comes to just under £1,000 a week over the six years he was a Rangers player. Tore Andre Flo on the other hand reputed to have received £1.3 million over a two year period and can be broken down to £12.500K a week. Rangers weren't making massive amounts of payments via the EBT scheme, they did just enough to lure players to sign for the club by offering them a better wage structure that gave the players more cash in their pocket than their competition did to sign players. Other methods may apply though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Fitlike Posted July 10, 2017 Share Posted July 10, 2017 I do think when people look at the amounts in total the actual weekly benefit becomes distorted. Sasa Papac received £319,000 over a six year period he was at the club, but if you work that out to a weekly amount it comes to just under £1,000 a week over the six years he was a Rangers player. Tore Andre Flo on the other hand reputed to have received £1.3 million over a two year period and can be broken down to £12.500K a week. Rangers weren't making massive amounts of payments via the EBT scheme, they did just enough to lure players to sign for the club by offering them a better wage structure that gave the players more cash in their pocket than their competition did to sign players. Other methods may apply though. The equivalent of getting a brown envelope stuffed with £1k per week = not a massive amount. Would he have even bothered coming to Ibrox without that factor in his earnings?Multiplied by several dozen other recruits. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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