Fasda Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Why not? It was begun prior to the end of Oldco. If Newco is a continuation of Oldco and santions resulting from that investigation would be visited upon Newco as a result of their transfer of membership. That's my understanding anyway. Everyhting comes back to how Sevco were shoehorned into the SFL. They didn't apply like any other club would have to, so they cannot avoid the sins of the father. I'm not talking about letting them off the hook. The serious point is that it does not impact on Green's newco one bit, the only objections he can have is to protect the previous directors (unlikely) or to look as though he is protecting a "history". Neither of these make any sense in his current venture in which he's perfectly entitled to try to get a team back into the SFL and therefore add value to his investment. I'm cynical...it's nothing more than a get out clause. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 I'm not talking about letting them off the hook. The serious point is that it does not impact on Green's newco one bit, Why not? What if the sanction is that the membership is revoked? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bookies Love Me Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Don't think the Ayr and Kille fans will take too kindly to this description...... unless you are describing them as extreme(ly dissappointed)....always! Yeah I know before anyone says it. this is coming from a Peterhead fan. But as no-one knows who my "big team" are then I am safe Is it Buckie Thistle by any chance??? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Henry Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 I'm not talking about letting them off the hook. The serious point is that it does not impact on Green's newco one bit, the only objections he can have is to protect the previous directors (unlikely) or to look as though he is protecting a "history". Neither of these make any sense in his current venture in which he's perfectly entitled to try to get a team back into the SFL and therefore add value to his investment. I'm cynical...it's nothing more than a get out clause. Doesn't it? I'd suggest the Double Contracts have more to do with Rangers FC than they do with the the Oldco. In one sense I agree - I'd suggest the playing side of the club is bricking it at the thought of the result of the investigation far more than Green is. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stagmaster Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 (edited) Totally and utterly unrelated to this thread (not that that has stopped anyone before) but why is Google showing up in the 'user(s) reading this topic'? Aye, typical, they've buggered off noo the snooping basturts! Edited July 24, 2012 by Stagmaster 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itwiznaeme Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Where the F**k did you get that I wish those helpful buggers at the SFA would hurry up with our license Compulsory Liquidation: http://en.wikipedia....ory_liquidation The parties who are entitled by law to petition for the compulsory liquidation of a company vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, but generally, a petition may be lodged with the court for the compulsory liquidation of a company by: the company itself any creditor who establishes a prima facie case ( In Rangers FC case - HMRC ) contributories[2] the Secretary of State (or equivalent) the Official Receiver Liquidator: http://en.wikipedia....iquidator_(law) ( In Rangers FC case, BDO Liquidators have been appointed on behalf of HMRC ) In law, a liquidator is the officer appointed when a company goes into winding-up or liquidation who has responsibility for collecting in all of the assets of the company and settling all claims against the company before putting the company into dissolution. Duties: http://en.wikipedia....or_(law)#Duties In compulsory liquidation, the liquidator must assume control of all property to which the company appears to be entitled. The exercise of his powers is subject to the supervision of the court. He may be compelled to call a meeting of creditors or contributories when requested to do so by those holding above the statutory minimum.In a voluntary winding-up, the liquidator may exercise the court's power of settling a list of contributories and of making calls, and he may summon general meetings of the company for any purpose he thinks fit. In a creditor's voluntary winding-up, he must report to the creditor's meeting on the exercise of his powers. The liquidator is generally obliged to make returns and accounts, owes fiduciary duties to the company and should investigate the causes of the company's failure and the conduct of its managers, in the wider public interest of action being taken against those engaged in commercially culpable conduct. A liquidator who is appointed to wind-up a failing business should act with professional efficiency and not exercise the sort of complacency that might have caused the business to decline in the first place. Misconduct: http://en.wikipedia....tion#Misconduct ( In the case of Rangers FC, Misconduct has taken place ) The liquidator will normally have a duty to ascertain whether any misconduct has been conducted by those in control of the company which has caused prejudice to the general body of creditors. In some legal systems, in appropriate cases, the liquidator may be able to bring an action against errant directors or shadow directors for either wrongful trading or fraudulent trading. The liquidator may also have to determine whether any payments made by the company or transactions entered into may be voidable as a transaction at an undervalue or an unfair preference. Where, during the investigation of the affairs of the company, the liquidator uncovers wrongdoing on the part of the management of the company, he may have power to bring proceedings for wrongful trading or, in extreme cases, for fraudulent trading. However, the liquidator cannot normally enter into a champertous agreement to assign the fruits of an action to a third party offering to finance the litigation, if the right to said action accrued solely as a result of the liquidator's statutory duties, instead of being a right to action that had existed before the liquidator came on the scene. The liquidator may also seek to set aside transactions which were entered into by the company in the time immediately preceding the company going into liquidation where he forms the view that they constitute an unfair preference or a transaction at an undervalue. Phoenix Companies: http://en.wikipedia....oenix_companies In the UK, many companies in debt decide it's more beneficial to start again by creating a new company, often referred to as a 'phoenix' company. In business terms this will mean liquidating a company as the only option and then resuming under a different name with the same customers, clients and suppliers. In some circumstances it may appear ideal for the directors, however if they trade under a name which is the same or substantially the same as the company in liquidation without approval from the Court they will be committing an offence under S216 of the Insolvency Act 1986 (and equivalent legislation in UK regions). Persons participating in the management of the 'Phoenix' company may also be held personally liable for the debts of the company under s217 of the Insolvency Act unless the Court approval has been granted. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abZlWqVeLzg 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fasda Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Why not? What if the sanction is that the membership is revoked? We'll go round in circles here! I believe that the "sanctions" for playing illegally registered players is to award the game(s) to the opposition (usually 0-3) and/or remove titles/trophies won where illegally registered players were used. The directors then may find themselves banned. You may be right on newco membership being revoked (i.e. I may be wrong!) but I don't think that's a sanction that is available for this and neither do I think there is a precedence? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever Diamond Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 By the same token, it doesn't matter to me that it's not the same company, all the people I know who supported Airdrie before support them now, Why shouldn't we,we chose not to follow the Old Firm,and preferred to follow a local side.As they play out of the same rented stadium,i fail to see what the problem is.I can honestly say i will win this bet in stating i know a hell of a lot more Airdrie Utd fans than you do.We follow the club,but do know it is no longer the old Airdrieonians.We would like our old club back,but it wont ever happen.They died,and we now follow a renamed Clydebank....not an incarnate,or newco etc...and already existing club that is now renamed to Airdrie United. everything about them that made them work as a viable football club as just as it was before, just under a different legal entity. No shit Sherlock,we would be in a hell of a state if we didn't try to run the club similarly to the old one,or any one as a matter of fact.All clubs need a Chairman,board members,staff,players and a place to play at. Seeing as the Board are different,the badge is different,the team name is different...even the stadium name is now different,i think we can establish were not the old club.We may still play in a similar strip to the old team,and yes our manager and a couple of the coaches used to play for Airdrieonians,but they also played for various other clubs as well.So apart from those last few mentioned items i fail to see what the point is here. Airdrie United does not = Airdrieonians,we know that and keep getting reminded of it.So you can sadly keep thinking what you like about us,we know what we are....and it isn't Onians. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Is it Buckie Thistle by any chance??? Just because they play in green and white hoops doesn't make them a "big" team! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leepylee Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Ahh the most satisfying moment of my life today, I was introduced to a guy at a meeting and over the coffee break and the usual small talk I asked the guy who he supported " I'm a rangers man" he said proudly. Without missing a beat I shook my head condescendingly and said " no I mean WHO'S YOUR BIG TEAM " I was still chuckling for the full 3 minute ensuing lecture about their triumphant spl return capped off with regular champions league wins as they're now debt free !!! Ahh man I'm gony enjoy this 3 season holiday -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngsod Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 (edited) Oh please, oh please, oh please... My link Here is the full team list for Pro Evolution Soccer 2013. Notable changes: Motherwell replace Rangers. Edited July 24, 2012 by youngsod 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mabawsa_Ritchie Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Ahh the most satisfying moment of my life today, I was introduced to a guy at a meeting and over the coffee break and the usual small talk I asked the guy who he supported " I'm a rangers man" he said proudly. Without missing a beat I shook my head condescendingly and said " no I mean WHO'S YOUR BIG TEAM " I was still chuckling for the full 3 minute ensuing lecture about their triumphant spl return capped off with regular champions league wins as they're now debt free !!! Ahh man I'm gony enjoy this 3 season holiday I hope you reminded him about the £5.5m they will owe Chico Green? :lol: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellboy1978 Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Oh please, oh please, oh please... My link Here is the full team list for Pro Evolution Soccer 2013. Notable changes: Motherwell replace Rangers. Saw this earlier. Superb 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Buddie Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Ahh the most satisfying moment of my life today, I was introduced to a guy at a meeting and over the coffee break and the usual small talk I asked the guy who he supported " I'm a rangers man" he said proudly. Without missing a beat I shook my head condescendingly and said " no I mean WHO'S YOUR BIG TEAM " I was still chuckling for the full 3 minute ensuing lecture about their triumphant spl return capped off with regular champions league wins as they're now debt free !!! Ahh man I'm gony enjoy this 3 season holiday The "debt-free" argument doesn't really stand up, taking a logical progression to some of the claims by Rangers fans. I've heard a few arguments around the "fact" that they had a debt of only £18m, which was serviceable (?), and were trading at a profit before Whyte took over. If that's the case, why are they in such shit now, it's only simple arithmetic, surely? It's like me claiming to be debt-free cos I pay off my £2000 credit card bill with my £2000 salary, and I've got feck all to live on for the next month, until I go into a £2000 overdraft. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itwiznaeme Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Ahh the most satisfying moment of my life today, I was introduced to a guy at a meeting and over the coffee break and the usual small talk I asked the guy who he supported " I'm a rangers man" he said proudly. Without missing a beat I shook my head condescendingly and said " no I mean WHO'S YOUR BIG TEAM " I was still chuckling for the full 3 minute ensuing lecture about their triumphant spl return capped off with regular champions league wins as they're now debt free !!! Ahh man I'm gony enjoy this 3 season holiday Those Sevconian cheating b*****ds are one of only a very tiny few clubs in Europe who are indeed actually debt free. They have a 51,000 (all-seated) capacity stadium and a multi-million pounds training ground all bought and paid for by the UK taxpayers (you & i) and 300+ creditors that they bumped. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stagmaster Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 It's a pity it doesn't seem I am getting my wish when all this started. I desperately wanted Newco to have a totally different name and logo so there was no doubt that this was a new club and even the Orc's would have to agree. Something else which I remember wasn't answered when I asked earlier - will Newco and Celtic have the same sponsors this year? Will Newco receive less money because they are playing in a smaller league? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stagmaster Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Oh please, oh please, oh please... My link Here is the full team list for Pro Evolution Soccer 2013. Notable changes: Motherwell replace Rangers. Any news on Fifa 13? And why isn't Dundee replacing Newco? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 The "debt-free" argument doesn't really stand up, taking a logical progression to some of the claims by Rangers fans. I've heard a few arguments around the "fact" that they had a debt of only £18m, which was serviceable (?), and were trading at a profit before Whyte took over. If that's the case, why are they in such shit now, it's only simple arithmetic, surely? It's like me claiming to be debt-free cos I pay off my £2000 credit card bill with my £2000 annual salary, and I've got feck all to live on for the next year, until I go into a £2000 overdraft. Correction made based on your current location 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leepylee Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Those Sevconian cheating b*****ds are one of only a very tiny few clubs in Europe who are indeed actually debt free. They have a 51,000 (all-seated) capacity stadium and a multi-million pounds training ground all bought and paid for by the UK taxpayers (you & i) and 300+ creditors that they bumped. Still they have been punished enough bless em 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tio Pepe Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 We'll go round in circles here! I believe that the "sanctions" for playing illegally registered players is to award the game(s) to the opposition (usually 0-3) and/or remove titles/trophies won where illegally registered players were used. The directors then may find themselves banned. You may be right on newco membership being revoked (i.e. I may be wrong!) but I don't think that's a sanction that is available for this and neither do I think there is a precedence? That may mean that the first season they used incorrectly registered players they would be bottom of the league after their actual results are converted to three nil defeats. This may have resulted in the incorrect side being relegated and a team not playing in the following season's European competitions when they ought to have qualified instead of Rangers. These sides are entitled to compensation. There is also a knock-on effect which delivered false results in subsequent seasons and generate further claims for compensation. Does the level of this compensation get added to the football debts that are carried over in the transfer of a licence? Or will they sweep it under the carpet and hope nobody notices. If I was the owner of one of the sides who lost out I'd be wanting my cash. On a wider scale European opponents may also be entitled to compensation as a result of being knocked out by Rangers (I believe that may have happened periodically) who fielded a side and/or qualified for the competition through using improperly registered players. How far back can the football authorities choose to go to ensure justice prevails? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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