Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!

[wunfellaff]

Nope...Rangers and Celtic are far ahead of where they should be as far as competing in Europe goes. The other clubs have failed miserably for over 20 years and are light years behind Norwegian clubs..swedish clubs..danish clubs etc.

Should be 'were' not 'are'.......

And Danish, Swedish and Norwegian? You've never beaten a Swedish club, indeed 1 win in 8 against the Greeks, 2 wins in 8 versus Romanians. It isn't only the other clubs to blame, its Celtic and Rangers as well.

Edited May 12, 2012 by wunfellaff

[Drooper]

Nope...Rangers and Celtic are far ahead of where they should be as far as competing in Europe goes. The other clubs have failed miserably for over 20 years and are light years behind Norwegian clubs..swedish clubs..danish clubs etc.

Nobody thinks we will ever compete with Madrid,Barca again but it is now far easier to sit in and watch that on Sky rather than going out on a cold winters day to watch the utter garbage that is dished up in Scottish football

As for the St Mirren supporters being happy with where they are...Then God help us given the dreadful attendances at NSMP. How many sell outs? 1 of the biggets crowds at the stadium was for a Scotland U21 game in midweek FFS!!

What is this NSMP of which you speak?

Feeling the pressure a tad, my 'neath stone dwelling friend?

[Cutty Old]

Nope...Rangers and Celtic are far ahead of where they should be as far as competing in Europe goes. The other clubs have failed miserably for over 20 years and are light years behind Norwegian clubs..swedish clubs..danish clubs etc.

Nobody thinks we will ever compete with Madrid,Barca again but it is now far easier to sit in and watch that on Sky rather than going out on a cold winters day to watch the utter garbage that is dished up in Scottish football

As for the St Mirren supporters being happy with where they are...Then God help us given the dreadful attendances at NSMP. How many sell outs? 1 of the biggets crowds at the stadium was for a Scotland U21 game in midweek FFS!!

And why is it that the others have failed so miserably ? Could it be because they have been hamstrung by the Rangers and Celtic domination of scottish football with their bigger slice of the pie and their total control of scottish football with the 11-1 voting structure ?

The clubs outwith the Old Firm were stupid enough to allow the current set up but, nevertheless, with a more equitable share of the resources their record against European opposition could have been a lot better.

[Captain_Sensible]

How do attendances per capita compare in Scotland with other European countries?

Average attendance ratios(population / average attendance) - the lower the number the better

Scotland - 328 with Old Firm home games

Denmark - 470

Norway - 528

Scotland - 645 without Old Firm home games

Switzerland - 658

Holland - 854

Belgium - 893

Portugal - 982

Austria - 1,029

Sweden - 1,172

England - 1,440 - Premiership

Greece - 1,467

Spain - 1,588

Germany - 1,929

Czech Republic - 2,006

Scotland - 2,015 - First Division

Croatia - 2,289

Italy - 2,510

England - 2,705 - Championship

France - 3,239

Hungary - 3,275

Serbia - 4,067

Bulgaria - 4,684

Romania - 4,851

Germany - 5,482 - Second level

Ukraine - 5,656

Georgia - 6,465

Poland - 7,455

Russia - 11,328

[Xatraps]

Been following this thread from the start, quality stuff. And I enjoy this forum, mostly for the reason it's populated with non-OF fans. It's nice to view the world outside the OF bubble for a change. Although to be honest I haven't paid much attention to any other threads since this one really took off.

I felt I had to sign up and get involved for two reasons; I don't particularly like Lennon & the whole 'demise' of Rangers saga.

But anyway, some points / questions I'd like to put out there.

(Sorry, just read it back and it's a bit long, hope it doesn't put people off)

Firstly, the money to the whole game, there's a lot of managers / press / chairmen / pundits etc… who are coming out with the 'Scotland needs the OF' line.

Most, if not all (especially Managers / Chairmen) seem to put the argument across that their budgets require 3 or 4 visits per season to ensure the smooth running of the club as they budget for this. (Dunfirmlines inability to pay players after Rangers missed a ticket allocation payment shocked me).

It would appear to me that the argument put back to them is 'well ok, just re-adjust your budgets accordingly'.

But surely if the budget is re-adjusted (reduced) then the knock on effect is to reduce the amount you can spend on players fees & wages. Therefore resulting in a poorer standard of player and a poorer standard of football. If there is a poorer standard of football, would TV & Sponsorship deals be reduced dramatically? Would this not be so? Or am I making too big an assumption?

I suppose if you don't agree with this particular point it may dismiss my whole argument. But, just bear with me and assume I'm not for a second. Because ICT, St. Mirren, St. Johnstione & Dundee Utd have all said something along those lines.

Another point posters on this thread have made is that the crowds would flock back to games as it would appear the view is there would be a more relaxed attitude on matchday, less police, no boisterous Glasgow bigots etc….

The problem I see with this, is the view the money men at all clubs would have. Financial men deal with definites (in relation to income, not necessarily with outgoings!!). You can definitely say how much money you will generate from an OF visit and the yearly TV deal currently in place. Obviously they generate enough money matchday to justify the extra police / stewards et al.

You may see an increase in crowds without the OF but this is not guaranteed, therefore it would seem as though it could not be viewed as guaranteed income. So I think it's a bit simplistic to just say 'F*ck off, we'll take our chances'. You must have a plan in place to make up the shortfall.

Another point I see regularly made is how 'young, home-grown Scottish players would get a chance'. But again, from a money perspective, if there's less of it, how can you put the resources into youth development? And playing young players at the professional level without proper grooming or without playing them alongside good, experienced players can be disastrous.

In relation to the comments made so far by current managers and chairmen about how Rangers are needed. I am somewhat surprised at the ease in which they've been dismissed on this thread by their respective clubs support. You can't rip into Rangers situation with glee or shout down Lawwell claiming its obvious he'll vote Rangers back in by what said or unsaid. And then just shrug off the 'official' line of your club. (is official the wrong word to use there?). I'm very unsure at the moment as to how Celtic would handle any potential vote.

Putting the money to one side. Maybe it's my built in Celtic paranoia I still think Rangers will exist in some form next season and most likely in the SPL. Some deal will be done with all parties to allow Rangers to continue. I know rules and laws say otherwise but in the long run I suspect the argument put across over the 'death' of Scottish football without them will sway officialdom.

Just to clarify my own position.

I don't want Celtic to play outside Scotland. I don't think Scottish football would 'die' without one or both the OF but it would take a person with a lot of courage, strength and vision to be leading the SFA / SPL should one or both disappear, as changes would need to be made from top to bottom.

I also thought I would be more enthusiastic at the prospect of Rangers vanishing but I have to admit to a certain amount of apathy towards the situation. Don't get me wrong, it's funny as f*ck, but I'm not as delirious as I'd suspected.

I'd like a fitting punishment for the transgressions. Football wise, a drop to Div3 with transfer embargo / fines and points deductions for three years might be fitting.

Monetarily with the creditors and HMRC I think a 'special' side deal will be done and nullify major punishments there. With Rangers deemed to be a special one-off case.

Thanks for Reading

*visual edit

Edited May 12, 2012 by Xatraps

[No8.]

Hello St Mirren chums and thanks for the great days out at NSMP.

The old ground was St Mirren Park i think most people call it the New St Mirren Park.

[Captain_Sensible]

Some more stats for no.8

St. Mirren's average home gate this season is 4,493.

Croatia, a country with a similar population to Scotland, has an average top flight attendance of 2,010 with the best supported club having an average of 3,875.

Hungary has a population twice that of Scotland yet their average top flight attendance is only 3,076.

Romania has a population which is four times greater than Scotland. Their average top flight attendance is 4,411.

Bulgaria has a population which is 50% greater than Scotland's. The average attendance in their top flight is a mere 1,627. Their best supported club has an average attendance of only 4,633.

[Captain_Sensible]

The old ground was St Mirren Park i think most people call it the New St Mirren Park.

Without the capital "N"......

[EdTheDuck]

Nope...Rangers and Celtic are far ahead of where they should be as far as competing in Europe goes. The other clubs have failed miserably for over 20 years and are light years behind Norwegian clubs..swedish clubs..danish clubs etc.

I don't think that's true or a fair comparison TBH. Strip the top clubs records out of any league in Europe and you'll find that The Rest fail every bit as much as our Rest do. When Aberdeen and United were rampaging through Europe they were our best clubs and the OF were contributing zilch to the coefficient, that's how it works.

[Granny Danger]

Hopefully someone will do an exposé of Brian Kennedy when this whole mess is over.

A parasitical self publicist of the highest order. Claimed on TV last night that he will "sleep better" if he knows someone else will save Rangers. Why is a Hibs fan losing sleep over the possibility of Rangers going bust? If he's a Hibs fans why not throw some of his £600 million (source: Jim Whyte) at Hibs.

Admit it you tosser, you saw an opportunity to possibly make some money and you're pised off that Haudit & Daudit are not going to play ball. You are a bottom feeder.

[Cutty Old]

The old ground was St Mirren Park i think most people call it the New St Mirren Park.

No 8 ? Is that seriously all you were able to respond to ?

[THE KING]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/2012/05/12/rangers-in-crisis-sfa-dossier-reveals-how-david-murray-was-aware-of-craig-whyte-s-record-86908-23856470/

Changed days for the record,,,,Murray the lying b*****d exposed.. :lol:

[ebeneezer]

When will Brian Kennedy realise that the duty of the administrators is to secure the best deal for the creditors rather than allow him to buy Rangers on the cheap. If more money can be clawed back by putting the club into liquidation, then that is the course Duff & Phelps will take. Obviously it makes sense to explore all avenues of selling the club as a going concern but the bottom line is that Kennedy and Blue Knights have not offered enough money.

Slap a few million of your own cash on the table Brian, or just shut up.

[No8.]

I don't think that's true or a fair comparison TBH. Strip the top clubs records out of any league in Europe and you'll find that The Rest fail every bit as much as our Rest do. When Aberdeen and United were rampaging through Europe they were our best clubs and the OF were contributing zilch to the coefficient, that's how it works.

Celtic palyed Real Madrid around about 1981..That was a European Quarter or semi final i think. Celtic were competing with the 'New Firm' and it was really only Rangers that struggled.

The New Firm were hardly rampaging through Europe.. They reached 2 European finals and United were robbed against Roma in 84. Rangers and Celtic have both reached European finals recently and made it through the Champions league group stages 3 times between them. I wouldn't describe our recent exploits as Rampaging through Europe even though it is comparable to the New Firms achievements in the early 80s. Iremeber when the new firm were drawn against English opposition..they were hammered!!

[THE KING]

Is it true fudd n phelps latest strategy to come up with a preferred bidder is to put gold wrapper inside a bar of chocolate ........

[No8.]

Some more stats for no.8

St. Mirren's average home gate this season is 4,493.

Croatia, a country with a similar population to Scotland, has an average top flight attendance of 2,010 with the best supported club having an average of 3,875.

Hungary has a population twice that of Scotland yet their average top flight attendance is only 3,076.

Romania has a population which is four times greater than Scotland. Their average top flight attendance is 4,411.

Bulgaria has a population which is 50% greater than Scotland's. The average attendance in their top flight is a mere 1,627. Their best supported club has an average attendance of only 4,633.

So with these stats and the price people pay to watch the games here ... Why do the diddies failt to compete with these clubs?

[Dindeleux]

Was I the only one who spied this in the record report:

● Financial controller Ken Olverman is ordered to withhold payments totalling £13million to HMRC and not to pay any bills. Why didn’t he go pubic?

[EdTheDuck]

Celtic palyed Real Madrid around about 1981..That was a European Quarter or semi final i think. Celtic were competing with the 'New Firm' and it was really only Rangers that struggled.

The New Firm were hardly rampaging through Europe.. They reached 2 European finals and United were robbed against Roma in 84. Rangers and Celtic have both reached European finals recently and made it through the Champions league group stages 3 times between them. I wouldn't describe our recent exploits as Rampaging through Europe even though it is comparable to the New Firms achievements in the early 80s. Iremeber when the new firm were drawn against English opposition..they were hammered!!

Like when Aberdeen KO'd Ipswich, the UEFA Cup holders at the time?

The only hammering was Aberdeen's against Liverpool in 1980 I think - before Aberdeen or United had really come of age

ETA celtic lost to RM in 79/80 QF after disposing of Dundalk and Tirana

Edited May 12, 2012 by EdTheDuck

[Dundee Hibernian]

The average attendances at various European nations provided here a few minutes ago are totally wrong.

Is Captain Sensible chief accountant for D&P?

Attendances

[No8.]

No 8 ? Is that seriously all you were able to respond to ?

Nope but i am just heading out for the day so cant get into a big debate...Especially not with that knitting fanaftic that is just going to wind me up!!