Dundee Hibernian Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 (edited) With oldRangers gone, and perhaps SevcoRangers too shortly, we'll be left with the rump end of sectarianism which entails sections of the Celtic support. Before any 'tic fans jump down my throat, I think, generally, their support is ok at matches, this includes the Green Brigade. However, Celtic does still have groups who sing songs which should be consigned to the bin. The one excuse that cannot now be used is the 'what about them, they're just as bad if not worse?' : whataboutery Could we see a huge step forward now in the culture at our matches? Will the Celtic support settle on singing about football? Will the authorities finally do something about it if they don't? And hopefully, some fans of other clubs don't take it on themselves to become bastions of outdated protestant loyalty. It'd be good to see positive evolution in the stands this coming season. Edited July 17, 2012 by Dundee Hibernian 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTaxMan Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 But it was fine for them to let other clubs do their dirty work for them and face threats? Classy. Strange how the most vociferous complaints about this are coming from Killie fans, how did your club vote on the matter of allowing Sevco into the SPL? Celtic voted NO, how did Killie vote again? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londoner Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 http://hitthebyline....the-microscope/ Worth a look at. Great article 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swello Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 One of the many things that P&B has exposed during this fiasco is the blind, stupid loyalty and unquestioning subservience of Celtic fans. I have seen fans of just about every SPL club make valid and justifiable criticisms of their clubs, chairmen, managers and players who appeared to be taking a pro 'Rangers' line. The one exception has been the Celtic fans who, with the odd honourable exception, have sat back as their club has keep silent during one of the biggest scandals to hit Scottish football. Two cheeks of the same sectarian driven arse right enough. Celtic have also come out of this fiasco looking pretty impotent. They have done their business behind closed doors and using others as a proxy which was possibly a good strategy - but given that Sevco in the bottom tier is the worst possible financial outcome for Celtic PLC, their approach has been a dismal failure. A number of parties (SFA, SPL, the former OF, the MSM) have had a bit of a rude awakening regards how much influence they really have over the Diddy Clubs and their supporters. I'm ready to move on from all this pish and get on with the season as the CL draw is on Friday - but the one thing I still need to see resolved is the removal of the 11-1 voting. Once that's done - we can deal with whatever consequences are in store. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 (edited) Even if he did genuinely believe TV deals were in jeopardy... he went and told the world they'd effectively be worthless if Rangers went to SFL3, in an attempt to avoid them going to SFL3. They have gone to SFL3. Now he's off to try to get broadcasters not to think they're worthless?!?! He loses either way now. If Sky sticks, everyone says "you were scaremongering". If Sky twists, everyone says "it's your fault for talking them down". Leaving aside the widespready dubiety at his rejecting claims he was in any way gunning for a particular outcome / bullying SFL clubs, his video interview on STV website and appearance on Sportsound yesterday made 2 things fairly obvious about his approach: [1] sporting integrity is a financial concept on the balance sheet like any other... it gains you X in fans who don't walk away, it loses you Y in poorer TV income [2] the fact that the rules allow for Rangers to stay in SPL or go to SFL1 justifies attempting to keep them in SPL or SFL1 SFA Board have unsurprisingly given Regan a vote of confidence, but both he and Doncaster have zero credibility among fans and very little in media now. Longer-term that's a difficult scenario to recover from. Edited November 21, 2020 by HibeeJibee 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monrovianmonk Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Strange how the most vociferous complaints about this are coming from Killie fans, how did your club vote on the matter of allowing Sevco into the SPL? Celtic voted NO, how did Killie vote again? Kilmarnock did not vote for Sevco in the SPL so what is your point? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Doncaster reveals doubts over viability of 16-team model http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18865842 now I'm sure no-one saw this coming. Remind me what was dangled (but never actually stated in the "not legally binding" document) before SFL clubs prior to Friday? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Strange how the most vociferous complaints about this are coming from Killie fans, how did your club vote on the matter of allowing Sevco into the SPL? Celtic voted NO, how did Killie vote again? I've posted elsewhere that the reason that Doncaster is still in a job is that the SPL chairmen don't want the real story leaking out. I have suspicions the Dundee United chairman may not be cast in a good light if the true story of the shenanigans were told; I'm absolutely certain that the Celtic chief executive and Celtic board would come out of it looking really, really bad. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross. Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Celtic have also come out of this fiasco looking pretty impotent. They have done their business behind closed doors and using others as a proxy which was possibly a good strategy - but given that Sevco in the bottom tier is the worst possible financial outcome for Celtic PLC, their approach has been a dismal failure. A number of parties (SFA, SPL, the former OF, the MSM) have had a bit of a rude awakening regards how much influence they really have over the Diddy Clubs and their supporters. I'm ready to move on from all this pish and get on with the season as the CL draw is on Friday - but the one thing I still need to see resolved is the removal of the 11-1 voting. Once that's done - we can deal with whatever consequences are in store. I think it might be possible that Celtic's approach has been the best one for them to take. While everyone knows that the ideal set up for them was being part of the Old Firm and having the additional powers that it brought, the fact that they have been so low key on this might be the one thing that saves them from getting an absolute hammering when it comes to redrawing the rules. Had they been more vocal and rocked the boat at every opportunity, they'd have been making a bigger target of themselves than they already are. A quiet, measured and almost conciliatory approach is the correct way to go about protecting themselves, especially as everyone knew that Rangers were f**ked. That being said, none of us really know what has or hasn't been said and done behind closed doors. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnethead Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Kilmarnock did not vote for Sevco in the SPL so what is your point? I think he's calling your club a bunch of w**k, could be wrong though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozbaird Posted July 17, 2012 Author Share Posted July 17, 2012 There simply has to be a concern about any newco claiming the history, honours, name, crest and shirt of the oldco. Not from a 'get it up ye Rangers fans' angle, but from a simply factual angle whereby the oldco entered administration, was liquidated, and a brand new company under new ownership wants to be free from the massive debts and problems that caused the oldco's demise. Charlie Green simply cannot have it both ways. It's a new organisation that is clearly different and new, which starts afresh, or it is a continuation of the oldco, which comes with a barrel of shite attached to it. This assumes of course that Charlie Green gives, or ever did give, a flying fcuk about taking this on to see any sort of Rangers, old or new, start life at the bottom of the ladder in complete disarray with hardly any players and a pile of other problems which seem just as problematic as those of the oldco. This name, badge, shirt, history pish - this is just a distraction as he attempts to make a fast buck somehow and GTF South of Hadrians Wall again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Leighton Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 [2] the fact that the rules allow for Rangers to stay in SPL or go to SFL1 justifies attempting to keep them in SPL or SFL1 Not sure if this has been raised before but a team jumping the queue has precedent in the Scottish Football League. 1900-01: Queen's Park joined the top flight straight from non-league. They even expanded the top flight to 11 clubs in order to accommodate them and the two promoted teams, Morton & Partick Thistle. Don't think it has happened since though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 (edited) Kilmarnock did not vote for Sevco in the SPL so what is your point? No MJ bottled even making a decision. But this is a pointless debabte, Celtic stayed silent yes, but made the right decision when it came to the vote Edited July 17, 2012 by Enrico Annoni 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nelsjfc Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Even if Doncaster did genuinely believe TV deals were in jeopardy... he went and told the world they'd effectively be worthless if Rangers went to SFL3, in an attempt to avoid them going to SFL3. They have gone to SFL3. Now he's off to try to get broadcasters not to think they're worthless?!?! He loses either way now. If Sky sticks, everyone says "you were scaremongering". If Sky twists, everyone says "it's your fault for talking them down". Leaving aside the widespready dubiety at his rejecting claims he was in any way gunning for a particular outcome / bullying SFL clubs, his video interview on STV website and appearance on Sportsound yesterday made 2 things fairly obvious about his approach: [1] sporting integrity is a financial concept on the balance sheet like any other... it gains you X in fans who don't walk away, it loses you Y in poorer TV income [2] the fact that the rules allow for Rangers to stay in SPL or go to SFL1 justifies attempting to keep them in SPL or SFL1 SFA Board have unsurprisingly given Regan a vote of confidence, but both he and Doncaster have zero credibility among fans and very little in media now. Longer-term that's a difficult scenario to recover from. Sticking on the long term theme, those two sticking in their positions could undermine any future restructuring efforts. There will be an understandable degree of scepticism of any plans associated with either of them. I can't decide how stupid Regan has been. Was he simply stupid enough to put down what he was attempting in a email so it was there in black and white, or was so stupid he genuinely thought his meddling was a solution that would satisfy fans? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 (edited) Not sure if this has been raised before but a team jumping the queue has precedent in the Scottish Football League. 1900-01: Queen's Park joined the top flight straight from non-league. They even expanded the top flight to 11 clubs in order to accommodate them and the two promoted teams, Morton & Partick Thistle. Don't think it has happened since though. Aye but the whole set-up was messed-up then viewed through modern eyes. Aberdeen got promoted after 1 season in the lower tier, having finished in the bottom half, and the champion didn't go up!! EDIT: There was also some jiggery-pokery post-WWII, IIRC, regarding who restarted where. Edited July 17, 2012 by HibeeJibee 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 There simply has to be a concern about any newco claiming the history, honours, name, crest and shirt of the oldco. Not from a 'get it up ye Rangers fans' angle, but from a simply factual angle whereby the oldco entered administration, was liquidated, and a brand new company under new ownership wants to be free from the massive debts and problems that caused the oldco's demise. Charlie Green simply cannot have it both ways. It's a new organisation that is clearly different and new, which starts afresh, or it is a continuation of the oldco, which comes with a barrel of shite attached to it. This assumes of course that Charlie Green gives, or ever did give, a flying fcuk about taking this on to see any sort of Rangers, old or new, start life at the bottom of the ladder in complete disarray with hardly any players and a pile of other problems which seem just as problematic as those of the oldco. This name, badge, shirt, history pish - this is just a distraction as he attempts to make a fast buck somehow and GTF South of Hadrians Wall again. This, for some reason Rangers and her fans have the brass neck to claim the good parts of the history and then tell us the bad parts is either with the old "company" or was the fault of David Murray & Craig Whyte while still happy to celebrate and rub people's noses into the trophies and titles won under DM 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highland Dogma Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Given that hughie has legged it to uefa to try to weasel out of the three million debt and sent lackeys to the sfa meet to try to prove they have real investors and a business plan...I'm guessing the cash must be nearly, gone. Is the next pay day before the season start? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 That being said, none of us really know what has or hasn't been said and done behind closed doors. I think Celtic have real problems. Their "Security Council" veto with their Rangers mates is now gone. Celtic are very isolated in the SPL - previously their bestest buddies were Rangers. Indeed, their only buddies. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Leighton Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 (edited) Aye but the whole set-up was messed-up then viewed through modern eyes. Aberdeen got promoted after 1 season in the lower tier, having finished in the bottom half, and the champion didn't go up!! EDIT: There was also some jiggery-pokery post-WWII, IIRC, regarding who restarted where. Was there even automatic promotion between the leagues in the early 1900s? (edit - it started in 1922) The 1946-47 line-ups were just those used in 1945-46, the last 'war-time' league. Direct entry from nowhere to the top flight has only happened with Queen's Park, though there were a few cases of teams taking most of WW2 off then resuming where they left off (QOS / Killie) and others like St Johnstone having the same lay-off but starting a league down. Edited July 17, 2012 by Jim Leighton 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itwiznaeme Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 (edited) Courtesy of The Guardian Newspaper today: What Future? Edited July 17, 2012 by Itwiznaeme 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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